Nasty Bugs! Cabbage moth

[emiwri]

Last year cabbage moths and their larva in particular, decimated my broccoli plants. This year, I want to be ready for them!

So I was planning to puree some old store bought garlic that's starting to grow in my cabinet and mix it with water (?) to use to deter them by spraying the underside of the plant's leaves with it.

Has anybody tried this?

Does it Work? and How well?

[Newt]

I know that garlic does repel the cabbage moth but I've never tried a spray with it. You could plant garlic with your broccoli, plant dill with your broccoli or use row covers. Bt, a biological control is also an option.
https://www.figtree.org.au/companion_planting.html
https://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/r108301011.html

Newt

[emiwri]

I think garlic is best planted in the fall here? Otherwise that would be a great idea. Dill would work! of course I'd have dill growing there every year if I'm not careful! Still beats the cabbage worm!

[Newt]

You are correct that it's best to plant garlic in the fall, but if you are going to use it to repel pests it's worth a try. You could just purchase a bulb from the grocery store and plant the individual cloves for the season.

Newt

[emiwri]

That's a great idea! Afterall I already have garlic growing in my pantry , might as well stick it in the ground next to the broccoli. A lot less work than making garlic spray. Will the broccoli and garlic compete for nutrients? I'm guessing the garlic should be planted relatively close to be beneficial but how close is too close?

[Newt]

This site has some very helpful info on growing garlic.
https://www.thegarlicstore.com/index.cgi/howto.html

Here's some great veggie growing guides. I haven't read anyting about growing broccoli with garlic as a solution to the problem, though the last site does recommend a garlic spray.
[url]https://www.explore.cornell.edu/scene.cfm?scene=home%20gardening&stop=HG%20%2D%20Find%20a%20Vegetable[/url]
https://www.uga.edu/vegetable/
https://www.gardenersnet.com/veggies.htm

Newt

[emiwri]

Thanks, Newt. Now I know what I was haveing problems with is actually called Cabbage Looper, the larvae of those rotten moths that were making regular trips to our broccoli plants. I tries the hand pick them off one by one last year. Those moths had more free time than I did though and I couldn't pick fast enough. I might try the wire cage method. I had some left over chiken wire. I'll probably put a few garlics in the ground but I doubt that they will grow big enough in time to be useful in detering those moths. I'll probably make some garlic spray to try just in case.

[Newt]

I'm so glad we now know who the dinner guest was!

Those moths had more free time than I did though and I couldn't pick fast enough. I might try the wire cage method.

Yeah, but the wire cage method should make them dine elsewhere and you'll have veggies for dinner.

Newt

[Durgan]

https://www.durgan.org/13%20July%202006%20Cabbage%20Moth/HTML/


Some pictures of the cabage moth. My experience. I am constantly chasing and eliminating these creatures. They lay eggs on cauliflower, cabbage, brussel sprouts, and broccoli, and possibly turnip. They lay numerous eggs and the larvae eat holes in the produce. At one time there are only four or five in the garden, and they are hard to catch. Very nasty creatures to have around for a vegetable grower! I tried to take pictures on the produce, and finally got two partial pictures of the moth on the peppers, and I don't think they lay eggs on this plant. Probably just resting.

When this moth appears steps must be taken to get rid of them, or many vegetables will be ruined. I have also seen them without the black on their wings, almost pure white. I use a spray malathion and spray them in flight, which is relatively effective. Using the hose and removing the eggs also helps. Commercial growers must have to soak their broccoli with insecticide.

https://store.arbico-organics.com/cabbage-moth.html Some information about this Cabbage Moth.
Durgan.
__________________

[Newt]

Durgan, malathion is a very powerful insecticide. You might want to consider using a floating row cover to keep the moths away. You should find these sites hair raising and frightening.

https://www.safe2use.com/poisons-pesticides/pesticides/malathion/malathion.htm
https://www.chem-tox.com/malathion/research/

Newt

[Durgan]

Durgan, malathion is a very powerful insecticide. You might want to consider using a floating row cover to keep the moths away. You should find these sites hair raising and frightening.

https://www.safe2use.com/poisons-pesticides/pesticides/malathion/malathion.htm
https://www.chem-tox.com/malathion/research/
Newt

Thanks Newt>
I am well aware of this nasty insecticide, I thought it was taken off the market, but I was in a greenhouse two days ago and saw the shelves filled with Malathion.

I use the spray as an airborn shotgun to kill the moths in flight, hopefully using societies usual method of handing pollution by dispersal. The seldom mentioned refrain, the solution to pollution is dissolution, practiced by all.

Having some experience with broccoli and its associated bugs from an attempt years ago in growing it, I tend to not eat it from stores, since commercial growers must have to drown it in insecticide, and the close flowers means it is impossible to wash it adequately.

Durgan.

[Newt]

Durgan, I must admit I don't understand your logic but maybe it's me. You spray a powerful and known carcinogen in the air and it lands on the soil and the veggies you will eat, including closed flowers, and your doggie walks through the garden and licks her paws and you think just because it's dispersed over a wide area it's safe? Is that what I'm reading?

Newt

[Durgan]

Durgan, I must admit I don't understand your logic but maybe it's me. You spray a powerful and known carcinogen in the air and it lands on the soil and the veggies you will eat, including closed flowers, and your doggie walks through the garden and licks her paws and you think just because it's dispersed over a wide area it's safe? Is that what I'm reading?
Newt

Newt:
I was attempting to be sarcastic about societies solution to pollution. There was a lot more in the post than me shotgunning the cabbage moth. If people saw what was used to control bugs on cubits they would not eat them.

I am also realistic enough to know that commercial vegetable growing would disappear without the use of pesticides. Also, it might be pointed out that very few people grow a vegatable garden. They are so rare that most people find one astonishing.

We use pesticides today, but the ones used in the gold old days were in many cases much worse. For example for the Colorado Potato Beatle everybody used Paris Green- look it up just for fun.

Durgan.



Durgan.

[Newt]

I was attempting to be sarcastic about societies solution to pollution.

I'm sorry, I didn't pick up on that. At least I knew it didn't make sense.


Actually in the real old days (prior to 1900) the gardens and farms were smaller and had hedgerows that had weeds, trees and shrubs that attracted beneficial insects. The world wasn't as small as it is today and most of the imported pests we have today weren't in places where they had no natural predators. It's the way commercial agricultural has evolved that has caused the need for the chemicals.

There are many organic farms that are thriving.

Also, it might be pointed out that very few people grow a vegatable garden. They are so rare that most people find one astonishing.

Not where I live. It's quite common to have a veggie garden and there are community gardens as well where one can rent a plot. There's a long waiting list for these in a city of almost 100,000 people.

Newt

[emiwri]

Hmmm... as much as I would like to commit great harm to those damned moths, I don't think I want to help myself get cancer again.

Thanks for the discussion, I enjoyed the read.

I'll try to post regularly about how my battle against the cabbage moths goes throughout the season.

Currently the broccoli seedlings are in my back porch, a sort of enclosed add on to the house. They're doing much better after being supported by kabob sticks.

[Newt]

Emiwri, that's great news.

Newt

[OrganicGardener]

I use molasses to keep away the cabbage moths. I mix 1 teaspoon to a quart of water and spray it on the plant. I was originally using it as a plant food, the same way, but the moths seem to hate the stuff.

[emiwri]

Is that right? I might have to give that one a try. I was planning on caging the broccoli to prevent those pests from getting to it, but I'm finding that funds are just too short to buy the material I'd need. Molasses, however, is relatively less expensive and I've been trying to find an excuse to purchase some anyway. I have a few rye bread recipes that call for molasses but I seldom make rye bread so I haven't bothered to buy any molasses for it. Thank you Organic Gardener!

I haven't set the broccoli in the ground yet, the weather has been a bit unstable. I think I'll plant transplant them this weekend!

[emiwri]

BTW, I transplanted them outside about a week ago and so far the cabbage moths haven't found them! I put each plant spaced out from each other, so hopefully if one plant is found, the moths may overlook the others!

This years problem animal so far is the squirrel who digs holes in my garden. Dug up a couple of my strawberry plants too! But it hasn't been bad enough to motivate me to install a screen to keep squirrels out.

[Jess]

What about buying a bat box? They love to eat moths. I put one up two years ago and now have resident bats. It is amazing watching them at dusk flitting across the garden. Encourage the birds as well. They love to eat caterpillars.

[emiwri]

That would be so cool! Bats are neat creatures, I would love to have some living in my yard. The neighbors might think I'm a little strange but if they don't think I'm strange yet, they'll find out one way or another! My yard is kind of small, and I live in a residential area. Can I still convince bats to take up residence? What do I need to do and should we start up a new topic for this subject?

[Jess]

The neighbors might think I'm a little strange but if they don't think I'm strange yet, they'll find out one way or another

I know the feeling! but if encouraging wildlife makes you strange then I should probably be locked up!

https://www.batcon.org/home/index.asp?idPage=47
Found this link and while trying to find it discovered that you have quite a few bat species in your area. One of which is endangered and it is called the Indiana bat.
May be worth checking out your local library or any local groups to see if there are any bats in your area.
I have been completely organic for about 10 years now and research has shown that pesticides and herbicides are one of the major contributors to the decline in bat populations so if you use any don't try to encourage them.
I am in a residential area although there are fields at the back of my house. Doesn't seem to bother my pair. Hopefully I may get more!!!
If any moderators think I should start a seperate post for this let me know

[johnsilverman]

Just saw this thread and thought my brand new product would be of interest. Please see [url]https://www.mothblocker.com[/url]
Thanks for your interest in Organic growing

John

[a white rabbit]

..I had diamond-backed moth on my pak-schoi, plus other pests, I tried derris/neem and chemicals, to no real effect, errr ok, to effect but you have to spray, n spray, n spray n it all got a bit much..

..soooooo....

..I tried fine net, mosquito-netting, and it worked so nicely..now it's one bash with Decis at planting out for the crucifer flea-beetle, then net. The crop is perfect and the plants really like the micro-enviroment, such that they gain 10 days, which is not bad on a 45 day crop..

..a recent Turkish idea, still in the research stage is spreading cabbage leaves as a mulch, the smell of the rotting cabbage appears to affect the pest's sensing devices..makes sense, but I haven't tried it yet..

[Naturemom]

I enjoyed reading your discussion of the cabbage moth. I found an article that detailed a scientific comparison of organic and non-organic controls for cabbage moth that showed garlic or red pepper sprays work as well or better than the non-organic: https://www.ag.auburn.edu/aaes/communications/highlights/fall97/sprays.htm

I'm going to go mix up a garlic/red pepper spray now - I'm tired of picking 50 or more caterpillars off my brassicas every day!