[url=https://www.anomalies-unlimited.com/Disney/Labor.html]Epcot is all about a brighter future but not if that comes at the cost of humanity.
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Sage Hermit
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- Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 8:20 pm
- Location: Finlaysen, MN Coniferous Forest
har har
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Last edited by Sage Hermit on Sat Jun 12, 2010 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
You can solve all your problems in a garden/laboratory.
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gixxerific
- Super Green Thumb
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- Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:42 pm
- Location: Wentzville, MO (Just West oF St. Louis) Zone 5B
You are right Scott. I now believe that every one who has a green house or doesn't garden the old fashioned way should stop immediately. Because it is wrong. How could I have been so blind.
Not everything was done with hydro or aquaponics. You are basing your assumption on my recollections. It is a ride too in a greenhouse it has to be somewhat small therefore a greenhouse.
Not everything was done with hydro or aquaponics. You are basing your assumption on my recollections. It is a ride too in a greenhouse it has to be somewhat small therefore a greenhouse.
I think the ability of human mind to come up with innovations and the ability to adapt a given formula to what is essentially a completely new and different paradigm is amazing. A long way from using a stick to dig out ants or however tool-using started. 
That these technique and technology have been condensed to the point that average folks could do the same (more-or-less) is noteworthy too. Remember in Back To the Future II in which there was a fruit and vegetable garden hanging over the kitchen table? Are we there yet?
As for Disney, I think the key phrase here is "behind the scenes" -- I wonder what kind of vast machinery and pumping stations are required to run the portion viewable by the public? Do they use solar and other alternative energy for powering them?
That these technique and technology have been condensed to the point that average folks could do the same (more-or-less) is noteworthy too. Remember in Back To the Future II in which there was a fruit and vegetable garden hanging over the kitchen table? Are we there yet?
As for Disney, I think the key phrase here is "behind the scenes" -- I wonder what kind of vast machinery and pumping stations are required to run the portion viewable by the public? Do they use solar and other alternative energy for powering them?
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The Helpful Gardener
- Mod
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- Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 2:17 am
- Location: Colchester, CT
That's right, G5; everytime we try to cut a corner or insinuate what we think Nature should be doing into the process we change it, and almost NEVER for the better...
Gixx, I know my points sound a little harsh, so I'm not suprised to see your response venture a bit into the realm of sarcasm, but look at some of the systems you talked about. A conveyor moving plants through a nutrient bath. Sounds cool, but where is the energy coming from? We have a conveyor, pumps to run the nutrient bath, bet that greenhose had controlled louvres and fans to maintain airflow and temp, and for most of our country we would need heating for winter months. And all the plastics that go into this, that's energy too. Plastics are petroleum.
Are we putting one in every backyard? Then we will need more energy to ship the food around as well. All this energy use on a planet with 29 years of reliable petroleum reserves. Hmmm...
You want to see the real garden of the future, Dono? Walk out of your back door and gaze about you, my friend. There it is in all it's glory. Julie is spot on; the real gardens of the future are the ones where we cut the pipeline down to the most minimal shipping distance. We currently talk about food miles; we will want to be talking in food feet pretty soon. Food that travels only paces from production to table will be the real future.
[url=https://www.dervaesgardens.com/]This[/url] is the real garden of the future, and you have already started your version, Dono. Is there a greenhouse or a poly tunnel in your future garden. Hey yeah there is, mine too, but it's passive solar and I'm not heating it and I'm growing cold tolerant crops and harvesting solar heat, using latent heat from other sources (maybe my dryer vent goes here). Passive greenhouses aren't a problem. Thinking technology is going to get us out of the issues we are facing? THAT'S a problem.
Permaculture teaches us that we ALWAYS look first at natural systems to solve ANY issue, and only when we have exhausted those possibilities do we look to technology. We have based our whole culture on the internal combustion engine, so over the next three decades we are going to experience an upheaval of our infrastructure, economy, and way of life. Technology can never build truly sustainable culture because it's nature is to constantly make itself obsolete. Permanent culture can only build on permanent systems; this is where the word comes from...
The gardens of the future look WAY more like your backyard than that ride at Disney, my friend. Remember you heard that hear first; we'll revisit this in thirty years... deal?
HG
Gixx, I know my points sound a little harsh, so I'm not suprised to see your response venture a bit into the realm of sarcasm, but look at some of the systems you talked about. A conveyor moving plants through a nutrient bath. Sounds cool, but where is the energy coming from? We have a conveyor, pumps to run the nutrient bath, bet that greenhose had controlled louvres and fans to maintain airflow and temp, and for most of our country we would need heating for winter months. And all the plastics that go into this, that's energy too. Plastics are petroleum.
Are we putting one in every backyard? Then we will need more energy to ship the food around as well. All this energy use on a planet with 29 years of reliable petroleum reserves. Hmmm...
You want to see the real garden of the future, Dono? Walk out of your back door and gaze about you, my friend. There it is in all it's glory. Julie is spot on; the real gardens of the future are the ones where we cut the pipeline down to the most minimal shipping distance. We currently talk about food miles; we will want to be talking in food feet pretty soon. Food that travels only paces from production to table will be the real future.
[url=https://www.dervaesgardens.com/]This[/url] is the real garden of the future, and you have already started your version, Dono. Is there a greenhouse or a poly tunnel in your future garden. Hey yeah there is, mine too, but it's passive solar and I'm not heating it and I'm growing cold tolerant crops and harvesting solar heat, using latent heat from other sources (maybe my dryer vent goes here). Passive greenhouses aren't a problem. Thinking technology is going to get us out of the issues we are facing? THAT'S a problem.
Permaculture teaches us that we ALWAYS look first at natural systems to solve ANY issue, and only when we have exhausted those possibilities do we look to technology. We have based our whole culture on the internal combustion engine, so over the next three decades we are going to experience an upheaval of our infrastructure, economy, and way of life. Technology can never build truly sustainable culture because it's nature is to constantly make itself obsolete. Permanent culture can only build on permanent systems; this is where the word comes from...
The gardens of the future look WAY more like your backyard than that ride at Disney, my friend. Remember you heard that hear first; we'll revisit this in thirty years... deal?
HG
Scott Reil
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Sage Hermit
- Green Thumb
- Posts: 532
- Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 8:20 pm
- Location: Finlaysen, MN Coniferous Forest
Disney - the Kingdom of Child Labor Violations
https://www.anomalies-unlimited.com/Disney/Labor.html
Epcot is all about a brighter future but not if that comes at the cost of humanity.
You can solve all your problems in a garden/laboratory.
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The Helpful Gardener
- Mod
- Posts: 7493
- Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 2:17 am
- Location: Colchester, CT
Yeah, Sage, and Team Rodent points out a LOT more unsavory practices about the big D that will curl your hair. I don't have much to do with them anymore...
AS, you snuck one in before my little novella, but I think we are a long way from growing in the kitchen because every system I see is hydroponic which is water and energy intensive, and I don't think that's sustainable. If someone has a shut-me-up tech that changes my mind, I will be happy about it, but so far...
Techniques are great; there are a lot to permaculture but few use technology; most are primitive tech. Technology is not sustainable, primitive technique is...
I think the first step to determining what the garden of the future looks like is to determine what the future looks like, and I think Disney has done a poor job of that for decades; just look at the old Worlds of the Future. Any of us living in our houses under the sea? In our plastic toxic Monsanto houses? Taking the monorail to work? (ok, THERE'S an idea that should have been implemented, but...
)
HG
AS, you snuck one in before my little novella, but I think we are a long way from growing in the kitchen because every system I see is hydroponic which is water and energy intensive, and I don't think that's sustainable. If someone has a shut-me-up tech that changes my mind, I will be happy about it, but so far...
Techniques are great; there are a lot to permaculture but few use technology; most are primitive tech. Technology is not sustainable, primitive technique is...
I think the first step to determining what the garden of the future looks like is to determine what the future looks like, and I think Disney has done a poor job of that for decades; just look at the old Worlds of the Future. Any of us living in our houses under the sea? In our plastic toxic Monsanto houses? Taking the monorail to work? (ok, THERE'S an idea that should have been implemented, but...
)HG
Scott Reil