Epcot and organic food

[gixxerific]

If you get a chance to go to Epcot at Disney World There is a ride which I can not remember the name of. It is in the first section. It is a must see for gardeners.

There was some really interesting stuff in there greenhouse. Maybe types of veggies and many of them grown in very weird ways. They had a huge tomato tree which was cool. But the most interesting of all was a section where the had Brussels Sprouts along with a few other veggies on a track suspended above the floor. The plants were always moving very slowly through a small channel where I assume they were sprayed or possibly soaked in a nutrient solution. They spent about a 1/3 of the time in this enclosure while the other time they would be out in the open roots and all just dangling there. Pretty awesome if I must say so. They were doing great as well. I wish I would have taken pics and almost went on the this ride again but had to think about the rest of my party.

There were all kinds of odd things in there like plants growing in sand lots of hrdro and aquaponics.

They had a huge section where they had plants in water along with a bunch of fish living in there as well. The fish feed the plants the plants clean the water. Is this aquaponics? That is what they called it.

Really a must see they are extremely cutting edge there. There is also a behind scenes tour which I couldn't do, again due to not wanting to hold up my party.

On a side not a good portion of the produce grown there is used in the restaurants around the park.

Anyone else ever see this?

[applestar]

Only on TV. That's awesome. I'd like to go see too.

[a0c8c]

They had a huge section where they had plants in water along with a bunch of fish living in there as well. The fish feed the plants the plants clean the water. Is this aquaponics? That is what they called it.

That's the basics of aquaponics. Without the fish, you're constantly changing the water to get nutrients and it becomes hydroponics. The plants don't actually clean the water, but feed off of it. I'm sure they still do water changes. Even high end aquariums with fish and whole "gardens" of plants need water changes. Even the aquariums at places like Sea World and other places like the Shedd Aquarium in Chicago do water changes.

Sounds like a cool ride though, and I hope I get to see it. They change rides so often, and are starting to keep fewer and fewer originlas, that by the time I get to go back it might be gone.

[applestar]

Hey my rice paddies are kind of aquaponics. I keep goldfish and minnows in them to take care of the mosquito larvae. Koshihikari Paddy is more stable and there are 6 or 7 fish in there that have already 3X in size from the original 13¢ feeders. The Carolina Gold Paddy is smaller, gets hotter, and is subject to foreign contaminants from being close to the property line. 2nd school of fish seem to have disappeared... again, so I've added a tadpole to see if it fares any better.

[gixxerific]

You would love it Apple I am sure of it. It's just a little boat ride that part of it goes through 2 different big greenhouses than a fishery.

As far as the fish/plant aquaponics, they might change out the water. They only give a brief explanation about things. But the fish were the main source of food for the plants.

Another cool thing they had in a few spots was vining plants (cucumbers and such) that were trained up about 7 ft in large square sections, than there was a flat mesh on top of all this. That is where they would grow down from the top cage. Pretty cool.

[joewittenberg]

Wow, that all sounds amazing. I never would have figured there would be anything like that there. Good to know!

[thanrose]

Gixx, I haven't been there for years, but always recommend it to anyone with an interest in botany. Disney actually has some very cool behind the scenes stuff if you contact them in advance. They have special tours for teachers, for instance. Some things you can sign up for as soon as you get into the park.

[garden5]

Wow, that sounds pretty cool! Next time, take a video and post it here for us, Gix!

[gixxerific]

Wow, that sounds pretty cool! Next time, take a video and post it here for us, Gix!

Since I'm back in MO now can you wait 5 more years or so. Here is a peak at it if you are interested.

https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/parks/epcot/attractions/living-with-the-land/

I was kicking myself in the butt for not taking pics or video. I didn't think about it till just about the end. We were trying to make it short day so I didn't make them wait for me to go back through the 40 min wait again. So stupid of me.

Really I can't explain how damn cool it was.

Oh yeah I had to think of you Apple, they had rice growing in what looked like a sand based soil no water.

[applestar]

[LindsayArthurRTR]

Wow! That's insane

[GeorgiaGirl]

It's funny hearing you describe the various ways they grow things in the greenhouse because actually I remember some of those things you mention from when I was at Epcot in 1984 when I was 12!! I seem to remember some things growing in a big rotating cylinder or something... anyway, I'm sure they've added a lot but I remember thinking when I was a kid how amazing and cutting-edge it was.

I still remember the theme song they had back then... "Let's listen to the land that we all love... nature's plan will shine above... listen to the laaaaaa-aaa-aaa-aaand, listen to the land!" ROFL (My Dad bought the Epcot Center soundtrack on cassette tape; that's the only way I remember that!)

I was actually thinking about that "The Land" ride/exhibit again just recently... I was wondering if they were doing any experimenting with GMOs (I hope not, obviously) or whether they are researching more in "our" direction with organics, permaculture etc. I'd love to go through it now, all these years later, to see what's changed.

[gixxerific]

NO GMO's Georgia. They first part takes you through a series of videos and they were explaining the various farming techniques. I kept saying I hope they aren't talking about Moncrapo. But they went on to talk about using earth friendly ways such as compost, organics, no-till and even about biodynamics and such.

They are using some cutting edge ideas, the research goes on there. That is why I wanted to go through the "Behind the seeds" tour. They take you through their labs and such and explain the new innovations and what they are trying to achieve.

I highly doubt they have any thing do with GMO's. Epcot is all about a brighter future but not if that comes at the cost of humanity. They also have another film in there that was great that had Timon and Pumba narrating a look at man's destructive way's on the world. It emphasized the need to reduce, reuse, recycle. Also the fact that if we don't change our way's the planet as we know it will be no more. That was a moving film for me, I may have even shed a tear or two. Though I was thinking to myself how many people in this film will leave and not even think twice about what they had just seen.

[The Helpful Gardener]

I am a little leery, gixx...

One, every situation you mentioned talks about removing the plants from a natural situation and putting them in an unnatural one, as if everything in the future needs to grow in a greenhouse. Think about the underlying message there. It is almost an assumption we are going to screw up the natural world so badly in the future, we better know how to do this (not that that ain't a possibility the way we are going, but I'm just not ready to concede defeat yet).

Secondly, I read [url=https://www.carlhiaasen.com/]Carl Hiaasen's[/url] book, Team Rodent (I'm a fan of Carl's), and have a whole new way of thinking about Disney. I agree you can see some wonderful horticultural practices there, but the Happiest Place On Earth has an ugly underbelly we don't often see, so I'm not ready to write them up as this green company; read the book to find out why...

HG

[GeorgiaGirl]

Very good points, HG... as much as all the hydroponic stuff has a futuristic "cool" factor, it seems that the real future is in going back to the past... to a pre-Monsanto permaculture world.

I've only read one Carl Hiaasen book ("Sick Puppy") but loved it... I will have to read "Team Rodent." Thanks for the recommendation.

Hmm, I just Googled "Epcot and Monsanto" and found this:
https://www.visionsfantastic.com/visions/dlr/disneyland/tom/history/monsanto.html

So it seems they've had some type of relationship in the past, it seems??

Just found someone's bootleg of the greenhouse tour!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ipy1tF5DU-Y

edited to add: Ha, found that song I mentioned earlier... now you all can have the joy of having this darn song stuck in your head like I have ever since reading this thread!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GB9XVF80Lw

[Sage Hermit]

Epcot is all about a brighter future but not if that comes at the cost of humanity.

[url=https://www.anomalies-unlimited.com/Disney/Labor.html][/url]

[gixxerific]

You are right Scott. I now believe that every one who has a green house or doesn't garden the old fashioned way should stop immediately. Because it is wrong. How could I have been so blind.

Not everything was done with hydro or aquaponics. You are basing your assumption on my recollections. It is a ride too in a greenhouse it has to be somewhat small therefore a greenhouse.

[garden5]

It seems like the more man tries to replace nature with himself, the more things tend to go to south.

[applestar]

I think the ability of human mind to come up with innovations and the ability to adapt a given formula to what is essentially a completely new and different paradigm is amazing. A long way from using a stick to dig out ants or however tool-using started.

That these technique and technology have been condensed to the point that average folks could do the same (more-or-less) is noteworthy too. Remember in Back To the Future II in which there was a fruit and vegetable garden hanging over the kitchen table? Are we there yet?

As for Disney, I think the key phrase here is "behind the scenes" -- I wonder what kind of vast machinery and pumping stations are required to run the portion viewable by the public? Do they use solar and other alternative energy for powering them?

[The Helpful Gardener]

That's right, G5; everytime we try to cut a corner or insinuate what we think Nature should be doing into the process we change it, and almost NEVER for the better...

Gixx, I know my points sound a little harsh, so I'm not suprised to see your response venture a bit into the realm of sarcasm, but look at some of the systems you talked about. A conveyor moving plants through a nutrient bath. Sounds cool, but where is the energy coming from? We have a conveyor, pumps to run the nutrient bath, bet that greenhose had controlled louvres and fans to maintain airflow and temp, and for most of our country we would need heating for winter months. And all the plastics that go into this, that's energy too. Plastics are petroleum.

Are we putting one in every backyard? Then we will need more energy to ship the food around as well. All this energy use on a planet with 29 years of reliable petroleum reserves. Hmmm...

You want to see the real garden of the future, Dono? Walk out of your back door and gaze about you, my friend. There it is in all it's glory. Julie is spot on; the real gardens of the future are the ones where we cut the pipeline down to the most minimal shipping distance. We currently talk about food miles; we will want to be talking in food feet pretty soon. Food that travels only paces from production to table will be the real future.

[url=https://www.dervaesgardens.com/]This[/url] is the real garden of the future, and you have already started your version, Dono. Is there a greenhouse or a poly tunnel in your future garden. Hey yeah there is, mine too, but it's passive solar and I'm not heating it and I'm growing cold tolerant crops and harvesting solar heat, using latent heat from other sources (maybe my dryer vent goes here). Passive greenhouses aren't a problem. Thinking technology is going to get us out of the issues we are facing? THAT'S a problem.

Permaculture teaches us that we ALWAYS look first at natural systems to solve ANY issue, and only when we have exhausted those possibilities do we look to technology. We have based our whole culture on the internal combustion engine, so over the next three decades we are going to experience an upheaval of our infrastructure, economy, and way of life. Technology can never build truly sustainable culture because it's nature is to constantly make itself obsolete. Permanent culture can only build on permanent systems; this is where the word comes from...

The gardens of the future look WAY more like your backyard than that ride at Disney, my friend. Remember you heard that hear first; we'll revisit this in thirty years... deal?

HG

[Sage Hermit]

https://www.anomalies-unlimited.com/Disney/Labor.html

Epcot is all about a brighter future but not if that comes at the cost of humanity.

[The Helpful Gardener]

Yeah, Sage, and Team Rodent points out a LOT more unsavory practices about the big D that will curl your hair. I don't have much to do with them anymore...

AS, you snuck one in before my little novella, but I think we are a long way from growing in the kitchen because every system I see is hydroponic which is water and energy intensive, and I don't think that's sustainable. If someone has a shut-me-up tech that changes my mind, I will be happy about it, but so far...

Techniques are great; there are a lot to permaculture but few use technology; most are primitive tech. Technology is not sustainable, primitive technique is...

I think the first step to determining what the garden of the future looks like is to determine what the future looks like, and I think Disney has done a poor job of that for decades; just look at the old Worlds of the Future. Any of us living in our houses under the sea? In our plastic toxic Monsanto houses? Taking the monorail to work? (ok, THERE'S an idea that should have been implemented, but... )

HG