Right on Dec!
See, Lindsay if you use boards or cinder blocks or rocks or what ever, you have increased depth but not surface area...
By simply mounding and covering with a green or hay mulch, now you have sides where you can plant lettuce, basil, onions, marigolds (to help with nematodes) or whatever else, adding more root mass, which helps hold soil, and adds lots more carbon to your soil... no more tilling (I just stick a manure fork and gently 'lift' the soil in spring before planting) means less weeds, less gassing off of carbon and richer soils (Roots are the most carbon intense part of any plant and I just cut plants flush insterad of pulling out roots).
Studies have shown that roots of new plants will follow the channels left by old decomposing roots every time, given a chance. And added carbon means higher Cation Exchange Capacities, a fancy way of saying that the soil holds more nutrients (carbon is dark, which is why rich dark soils grow better plants).
And it's less work...
So raised no till beds are easier, better for the plants, better for the soil, and better for the planet (or your back, depending on how you till). And mounded instead of sided means more space and less money. Cool, huh?
HG
-
- Mod
- Posts: 7491
- Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 9:17 pm
- Location: Colchester, CT
-
- Green Thumb
- Posts: 527
- Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 10:41 pm
- Location: South Carolina, Upstate
-
- Mod
- Posts: 7491
- Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 9:17 pm
- Location: Colchester, CT
Doesn't straw actually take some nitrogen as it breaks down? I thought that's why hay was preferred because it was a "green" mulch that added nutrients.
Zucchini in the tomatoes.....brilliant! Say, how far apart do the toms have to be spaced to do that? At least 3 ft between plants, wouldn't you say?
Zucchini in the tomatoes.....brilliant! Say, how far apart do the toms have to be spaced to do that? At least 3 ft between plants, wouldn't you say?
-
- Mod
- Posts: 7491
- Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 9:17 pm
- Location: Colchester, CT
Straw is a high nitrogen and actually imparts nitrogen as it bereaks down unlike a higher carbon item that takes more bacteria to break it down, therefore using more nitrogen (don't forget that bacteria are high nitrogen items at 5:1 C:N).
Sure fungi does most of the break down for wood but they are producing ammonium which is pretty high nitrogen itself and needs bacteria to break down to plant soluble forms of N for our row crops and such (woodland plants have adapted to use ammonium...)
HG
Sure fungi does most of the break down for wood but they are producing ammonium which is pretty high nitrogen itself and needs bacteria to break down to plant soluble forms of N for our row crops and such (woodland plants have adapted to use ammonium...)
HG
The Helpful Gardener wrote:Straw is a high nitrogen and actually imparts nitrogen as it bereaks down unlike a higher carbon item that takes more bacteria to break it down, therefore using more nitrogen (don't forget that bacteria are high nitrogen items at 5:1 C:N).
Sure fungi does most of the break down for wood but they are producing ammonium which is pretty high nitrogen itself and needs bacteria to break down to plant soluble forms of N for our row crops and such (woodland plants have adapted to use ammonium...)
HG
Thanks for the tip. I guess I got some bad info when I heard that straw was high-carbon.
Anyway, I'd better save my question for the permaculture forum as this thread's getting a little off-topic.
Any new updates on the experiment, Dix?
-
- Mod
- Posts: 7491
- Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 9:17 pm
- Location: Colchester, CT
-
- Mod
- Posts: 7491
- Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 9:17 pm
- Location: Colchester, CT
It's chilly and has been raining FOREVER, yet that stinkin MG plant keeps growing like a weed. BUT the organic plant is not as yellow and wilty from the weather so HA Miracle Grow.
No pictures right now. The backyard kind of needs to be mowed and it's really wet so until it dries out some (meaning next week by looks at the forecast) I'm not getting soaked feet/pants. (Yep it is that bad shame on me for spending the two dry days on the back of the bike with my hubby )
No pictures right now. The backyard kind of needs to be mowed and it's really wet so until it dries out some (meaning next week by looks at the forecast) I'm not getting soaked feet/pants. (Yep it is that bad shame on me for spending the two dry days on the back of the bike with my hubby )
It ain't over till the last fruit is plucked. Like HG said, the size of the plance isn't always indicative of how much fruit it will yield. I'll be interested in seeing which plant gives the first fruit, the highest over-all yield, and gives fruit the longest. My neighbor's MG plants seem to give out sooner than mine do (though I did plant mine small and late last year, so go figure ).Dixana wrote:It's chilly and has been raining FOREVER, yet that stinkin MG plant keeps growing like a weed. BUT the organic plant is not as yellow and wilty from the weather so HA Miracle Grow.
No pictures right now. The backyard kind of needs to be mowed and it's really wet so until it dries out some (meaning next week by looks at the forecast) I'm not getting soaked feet/pants. (Yep it is that bad shame on me for spending the two dry days on the back of the bike with my hubby )
I am currently rather disgusted with the miracle grow experiment. The MG plant has HUGE leaves and not one single blossom Every tom and pepper in the ground garden has blossoms and the organic experiment plant has more normal, healthy looking leaves. No blossoms on it either, but I wouldn't expect blossoms on a plant its size yet.
Presently, I'm wondering if MG contains too much N or something. I used the junk for veggies!
Since I used my red pepper plants for the experiment I'll be pretty irrate if I don't get any peppers off this plant! (reds are my favorite)
Presently, I'm wondering if MG contains too much N or something. I used the junk for veggies!
Since I used my red pepper plants for the experiment I'll be pretty irrate if I don't get any peppers off this plant! (reds are my favorite)
-
- Mod
- Posts: 7491
- Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 9:17 pm
- Location: Colchester, CT
A sacrifice for science to be recognized by all, Dixana
My peppers are still small but budding and flowering; one of the chilies is only a foot tall but has a full size fruit (I will be plucking and such tomorrow so it will likely come off in favor of growth and more blossoms). I have taken the pledge, so no experiments outside of organics for me...
HG
My peppers are still small but budding and flowering; one of the chilies is only a foot tall but has a full size fruit (I will be plucking and such tomorrow so it will likely come off in favor of growth and more blossoms). I have taken the pledge, so no experiments outside of organics for me...
HG
-
- Mod
- Posts: 7491
- Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 9:17 pm
- Location: Colchester, CT
Oh, I did that one already years back and I don't do it any other way now. You get a bigger, deeper root system which evens out the watering needs so you get less catfacing and cracking, you get a much sturdier plant (my Brandywines had stems like my wrists last year) and I think you get more fruit (wasn't very scientific about recording differences so that's anecdotal; the kiss of death word in science).
But I'm very interested to see if you agree...
HG
But I'm very interested to see if you agree...
HG
STILL no blossoms on that stinkin MG plant! I have japs and peppers almost ready to pick on plants planted in the garden AFTER these plants! There are severtal large buds on the organic despite the fact it is 1/4 the size of the MG plant. If nothing else this experiment has reinforced to me what a giant waste of money miracle grow really is.
Top soil($1.13 a bag) + compost(free with very little effort and a lot less trash to take out) = better plants, better soil, more food vs Miracle Grow ($8+ a bag) lots more foliage, less food, contaminates the soil with chemicals......
Yep. Not impressed. If anything, I'm annoyed.
Well first things first, I have to confess that I haven't been in the garden in almost a week We've had a lot going on.
But I was out there tonight and BOTH plants have no foliage from midplant down.
I have no idea what happened. The organic plant seems fine aside from having no leaves, the MG plant has some yellowing. We've had some pretty hot/humid weather and some INSANE storms (60 mph winds, flooding, etc) but......no bottom leaves?
I should also note the blossoms have disappeared from my organic with no signs of peppers and there IS a pepper about the size of a golf ball.
Weird weird weird.....
But I was out there tonight and BOTH plants have no foliage from midplant down.
I have no idea what happened. The organic plant seems fine aside from having no leaves, the MG plant has some yellowing. We've had some pretty hot/humid weather and some INSANE storms (60 mph winds, flooding, etc) but......no bottom leaves?
I should also note the blossoms have disappeared from my organic with no signs of peppers and there IS a pepper about the size of a golf ball.
Weird weird weird.....
-
- Mod
- Posts: 7491
- Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 9:17 pm
- Location: Colchester, CT
Is the organic plant the one with the pepper? Does the MG one have any peppers on it?
About the tomato plant experiment: The 2 plant that were buried a little deeper are actually smaller than the other 4 . However, 1 has a large cluster of fruit on it and the other has the single largest fruit in the whole garden, so that may have something to so with it. Also, I think I may have accidentally knocked off a growing tip or two while I was pruning, so that may have contributed to it.
How deep did you bury your "deep" ones? Did you bury them to the top cluster or just 2 or 3 inches above the root ball? I planted them about 3 in. above the root-ball.
About the tomato plant experiment: The 2 plant that were buried a little deeper are actually smaller than the other 4 . However, 1 has a large cluster of fruit on it and the other has the single largest fruit in the whole garden, so that may have something to so with it. Also, I think I may have accidentally knocked off a growing tip or two while I was pruning, so that may have contributed to it.
How deep did you bury your "deep" ones? Did you bury them to the top cluster or just 2 or 3 inches above the root ball? I planted them about 3 in. above the root-ball.
I have decided to scrap this experiment for the year it was a complete bust. Between the freak downpouring rains followed by massive humidity and heat, then the stupid earwigs I don't think either plant is going to produce for squat. They both have two peppers but given their size I'm doubtful they will even get very large.
The only container plant I have that is doing ok is my one surviving wild boar berkely tie dye and I think that is only because I have babied the heck out of it.
I will redo this experiment next year. Though next year there will be another addition. Organic seed started in worm castings MG seed started in MG seed starter.
The only container plant I have that is doing ok is my one surviving wild boar berkely tie dye and I think that is only because I have babied the heck out of it.
I will redo this experiment next year. Though next year there will be another addition. Organic seed started in worm castings MG seed started in MG seed starter.
- Sage Hermit
- Green Thumb
- Posts: 532
- Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:20 pm
- Location: Finlaysen, MN Coniferous Forest
- gixxerific
- Super Green Thumb
- Posts: 5889
- Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:42 pm
- Location: Wentzville, MO (Just West oF St. Louis) Zone 5B
Sorry to hear that the experiment is a bust, but who knew this would be close to if not the hottest year on record.
Try again next year, I know my potted plants have gone to hell and back. I just can't keep up with them as hot as it has been.
Good luck with everything else. I believe there is some comfort coming in a cold (did I say cold, Bawhahahahahah!!!! I mean tiny bit cooler) front on it's way.
Try again next year, I know my potted plants have gone to hell and back. I just can't keep up with them as hot as it has been.
Good luck with everything else. I believe there is some comfort coming in a cold (did I say cold, Bawhahahahahah!!!! I mean tiny bit cooler) front on it's way.