nloberle
Full Member
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 8:07 pm
Location: South Texas

oops...please help!

I'm very ashamed to post this but I need help...

I'm new to gardening and my garden was doing quite well and I had planned on it being an organic garden. Then the pests came in- I had aphids and those big ugly green worms as well on my tomatoes- I called my Dad and he told me I needed to use Sevin dust ( I know I know- please don't beat me up too bad) . So, I dusted the plants with Sevin last Tuesday. Fast forward a week...the plants all look kinda blah. They are not quite as green- they all have a yellowish hue. Also some of the leaves on the tomato plants are curling in and have brown areas...

I'm afraid I've killed my garden...has anyone ever had this experience before? Do you think the plants look this way because I applied Sevin?

:(

User avatar
rainbowgardener
Super Green Thumb
Posts: 25303
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:04 pm
Location: TN/GA 7b

The timing of the problem would lead one to think so. And there is this:

"Plants: While insecticides are not usually assumed to have adverse effects on plants, carbaryl's use as a plant growth regulator (chemical thinning agent) in apples95,96 makes effects on other plants unsurprising. The following four types of effects of carbaryl have been documented in crop plants:

* Effects on reproduction. Examples include a decrease in germination success in wheat97 and decreased germination and an increase in abnormal chromosomes in vetch.98

* Effects on growth. Examples include the inhibition of seedling growth in beans,99 disrupted cell division in onion,100 distorted growth in poinsettia,35 decreased growth in peas and vetch,19 and a decrease in the weight of bolls in cotton.101

* Effects on photosynthesis. Examples include reductions in the photosynthetic rate of pecan trees102 and young soybeans.103

* Effects on nitrogen fixation. Examples include reduced colonization and spore-formation of peanut mycorrhizae,104 interference with the nitrogen-fixing mechanisms of the soil bacteria Azobacter,105 decreased photosynthesis, growth, nitrogen-fixation, and survival of a nitrogen-fixing bacteria common in rice paddies,106,107 reduced growth of the nitrogen-fixing bacteria Rhizobium,108,19 and toxicity to another nitrogen-fixing bacteria.109

Carbaryl's primary breakdown product, 1-naphthol, is as toxic as carbaryl to several nitrogen-fixing microorganisms.105,109 The combination of carbaryl and 1-naphthol is synergistically toxic to one bacteria.109"

https://www.healthyworld.org/sevin.html

Please go read the whole article before you ever think about using Sevin in your garden again.

Incidentally the Sevin is not particularly effective against aphids anyway, but it does kill all the beneficial insects like ladybugs, that would have helped keep the aphids in check.

"Sevin (carbaryl) is not effective against many aphids so it is generally not a good choice for control unless recommended specifically. In fact, applications of Sevin may reduce the number of beneficial insects, such as lady beetles, and increase the potential for aphid outbreaks."
https://www.ca.uky.edu/ENTOMOLOGY/entfacts/ef103.asp

The green worms, probably tomato hornworms, are easy to hand pick off your plants. Aphids can be squished by hand or can be dealt with just by knocking them off with a hard spray of water or can be killed with soapy water spray (real SOAP, not detergent/ dishwashing liquid which can harm plants). Incidentally, I grow tomatoes every year and I have never seen a tomato hornworm. I don't know if they just aren't in my area or if it has something to do with having bird houses and bird feeders, so lots of birds.
Twitter account I manage for local Sierra Club: https://twitter.com/CherokeeGroupSC Facebook page I manage for them: https://www.facebook.com/groups/65310596576/ Come and find me and lots of great information, inspiration

User avatar
applestar
Mod
Posts: 27657
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 11:21 pm
Location: Zone 6, NJ (3/M)4/E ~ 10/M

Recently, my neighbor sprayed insecticide on his side of the shared fence -- or so he says. A wide swathe on my side of the fence, planted with a collection native shade plants were wilted.

Not knowing what had happened at the time, though suspicious, I drenched the area with [url=https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17097]Aerated Compost Tea[/url].

Some herbaceous plants closest to the fence have died, then-imminent spring flowers were short-lived, and some are experiencing weird curly growths, but most plants are showing signs of recovery, and the later blooming native Azaleas are in full glory right now.

ACT thread is long and arduous reading, but it's a good place to start if you want to jump in with both feet about Organic Gardening, and it's the best chance for recovering the soil and foliar biology in your garden. I'm going to make another batch very soon to boost my Native Shade Garden some more.

User avatar
rainbowgardener
Super Green Thumb
Posts: 25303
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:04 pm
Location: TN/GA 7b

Sorry Apple, I don't mean to nitpick or anything, but when you wrote about this weren't you thinking the neighbor sprayed herbicide?

https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24244&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=neighbor+native+plants&start=0

I mean I guess you don't really know what they sprayed, since they denied the whole thing.

But the OP's point is that we would expect an herbicide to damage plants. We wouldn't expect an insecticide to do so, since the chem co's have convinced us the stuff is safe to use on plants.

And I certainly can't say that the insecticide is what caused the plant problems, only that current research suggests that is POSSIBLE.
Twitter account I manage for local Sierra Club: https://twitter.com/CherokeeGroupSC Facebook page I manage for them: https://www.facebook.com/groups/65310596576/ Come and find me and lots of great information, inspiration

User avatar
applestar
Mod
Posts: 27657
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 11:21 pm
Location: Zone 6, NJ (3/M)4/E ~ 10/M

:D Well, he SAID he sprayed insecticide because he's going to be having a garden party for his son's graduation, and didn't use any herbicidal sprays, that only "weedkiller" he used was Weed'n'Feed (which I believe is granular?)

The link you quoted about Sevin causing damage to plant cells makes it plausible that the insecticide could have been the cause for the damage to my poor plants. I really should find out exactly what product he used. :?

JONA878
Greener Thumb
Posts: 1014
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:14 am
Location: SUSSEX

Raindow....can you still buy Sevin...Carbaryl in the USA ?
It has been banned over this side of the pond for a few years now.
As you say..it was used a lot as a very efficiant thinning agent on apple trees.
The main benifit was that it worked at the 12 mm stage of the fruits growth so you could be sure that the June drop had occured before risking over-thinning the fruit.
The insectacide usage was almost incidental.
It was also the main weapon against Vine Weevil, and caused a lot of problems for quite a while after its removal.

User avatar
gixxerific
Super Green Thumb
Posts: 5889
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:42 pm
Location: Wentzville, MO (Just West oF St. Louis) Zone 5B

JONA878 wrote:Raindow....can you still buy Sevin...Carbaryl in the USA ?

Everywhere you look in big in containers too!


It has been banned over this side of the pond for a few years now.


Banned you say. I knew that but still it makes you wonder about my above statement doesn't it?
Last edited by gixxerific on Wed May 12, 2010 8:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

nloberle
Full Member
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 8:07 pm
Location: South Texas

thanks for all the help:)

Marlinggardener- what should I use to give them a dose of nitrogen? Sorry for my ignorance:( I'm learning so much this year!!!:)

The Helpful Gardener
Mod
Posts: 7493
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 2:17 am
Location: Colchester, CT

Jonas, you'd be amazed at the stupid stuff we still do in this country that's been banned your side of the pond. Our industry here feels it has the right to poison us to maintain profitability, and up until recently the government has agreed.

But the Presidents Panel On Cancer has recently stated that endocrine disruptors are indicated as likely carcinogens and should be avoided. Carbamates about head the list, and Sevin is king of the carbamates. Seems even our screwed up systems is finally doing something about this one... we are still a decade behind truly responsible law like Europe or Canada, but we'll get there...

HG
Scott Reil

User avatar
farmerlon
Green Thumb
Posts: 671
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 4:42 pm
Location: middle Tennessee

Re: oops...please help!

nloberle wrote:I'm very ashamed to post this but I need help...

I'm new to gardening and my garden was doing quite well and I had planned on it being an organic garden. Then the pests came in- I had aphids and those big ugly green worms as well on my tomatoes- I called my Dad and he told me I needed to use Sevin dust
:(
Nothing to be ashamed of... I say "welcome to the club", because I made that same mistake in my first year of gardening.
Needless to say, I wouldn't go anywhere near my garden with Sevin (or any other similar pesticide for that matter). We live, make mistakes, and learn.

User avatar
love11
Full Member
Posts: 57
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 1:44 am
Location: ohio

chemicals are bad news try some organic pestasides.

The Helpful Gardener
Mod
Posts: 7493
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 2:17 am
Location: Colchester, CT

And RBG showed us EXACTLY why they are bad news as well...

Excellent post RBG!

HG
Scott Reil

Toil
Greener Thumb
Posts: 803
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:18 pm
Location: drifting, unmoored

Marlingardener wrote: Tomato hornworms can be picked by hand (yuk!) but I personally use a stick and an old coffee can (the hens LOVE hornworms!)
chopsticks!
There's something new growing in the Helpful Gardener Forum! Become a part of it here!

User avatar
rainbowgardener
Super Green Thumb
Posts: 25303
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:04 pm
Location: TN/GA 7b

When I said hand pick, I clearly meant hands with tweezers in them! :)
Twitter account I manage for local Sierra Club: https://twitter.com/CherokeeGroupSC Facebook page I manage for them: https://www.facebook.com/groups/65310596576/ Come and find me and lots of great information, inspiration

Toil
Greener Thumb
Posts: 803
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:18 pm
Location: drifting, unmoored

yeah I know, it's just chopsticks are more nimble than tweezers, and you will really impress at a formal chinese banquet.

my wife is chinese, so I got really good. I can pick things accurately the size of a rice grain. My mother in law could do smaller, and fast if she had sticks with a skinny tip.
There's something new growing in the Helpful Gardener Forum! Become a part of it here!

User avatar
farmerlon
Green Thumb
Posts: 671
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 4:42 pm
Location: middle Tennessee

If it weren't for their destructive power :shock: , I think Tomato Hornworms are really quite a beautiful creature. But, a Tomato plant full of tomatoes is even more stunning ... so, sorry Mr. Hornworm, you've got to go!

I hand pick 'em all the time; no big deal. But, I understand that seems gross to some folks.

Return to “Organic Gardening Forum”