Why must I live between all these chemicals?

[cynthia_h]

There are some stunning pix of RBG's (lawn and) flowers, trees, etc. at "SPRING FLOWERS":

https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22775

incredible looking plants! Congratulations, RBG!

Cynthia

[gixxerific]

Isn't it funny RBG I haven't used chemical ferts in my lawn either for a few years.

I finally broke down and bought some corn gluten to fertilize the lawn. I almost wish I hadn't. My grass is growing leaps and bounds above anyone else s around here. Oh well that's more fodder for the compost and more green mulch for me.

OH and RBG your pics are awesome, really. I wish I knew how to arrange plants and flowers like that. I do okay but that is really something there. Which reminds me back to my plants I need to figure out something for my new front garden.

[DoubleDogFarm]

I found this information about corn gluten here.
https://wihort.uwex.edu/turf/corngluten.htm

If you have a problem with GMO's, you may have issues with using corn gluten

Is Genetically Modified (GMO) corn used to make corn gluten?

Up to 60% of the commercial corn and soybeans in the United States is grown from GMO Seed. Corn gluten sold as a preemergent herbicide may indeed contain GMO corn, but it has not yet been tested. Here's the twist. Corn gluten can reduce the need for traditional herbicides that have environmental side effects. It likely now contains GMO corn. It could be produced from non-GMO corn, but would likely be more expensive.

If GMO corn is used, can certified organic growers use it and will European markets allow it? How do home gardeners feel? And if plants are grown in soil treated with GMO corn gluten, could a crop pick up anything that show a positive GMO detect in testing?

[gixxerific]

DDF [url=https://www.bradfieldorganics.com/corngluten900.html]here[/url] is where I get mine from. I tried to run the [url=https://www.bradfieldorganics.com/MSDS/Bradfield_MSDS_9-0-0.pdf]materail data sheet[/url] but my pc was just renewed due to problems and is not yet up to par. If you can view it maybe you you could make your opinion based on this.

But than again my friend wouldn't you rather use GMO corn gluten over anything Scots etc?

The brand I use is also endorsed by Paul Tukey (sp) who is very much into organic principles. So far be it from me to challenge him. You can see the vid [url=https://www.safelawns.org/video.cfm?action=view&video_id=15&show_sponsor=true&KeepThis=true&TB_iframe=true&height=320&width=400]here[/url]. Check out the rest of his site while there lots of goo stuff to be read and viewed.

[DoubleDogFarm]

DDF here is where I get mine from. I tried to run the materail data sheet but my pc was just renewed due to problems and is not yet up to par. If you can view it maybe you you could make your opinion based on this.

Neither the link or the hazardous material sheet have anything to do with GMO's. GMO in my opinion is not Organic. The video tells me nothing either. We have used corn gluten in the landscape business, but only on gravel paths and driveways. If you apply this to your garden for nitrogen, don't be planting any seeds for 60 days.

GMOs,
If you apply corn gluten to your property and it's 60% gmo corn Are you willing to pay the patent fees (Royalties) to Monsanto. I am not. Look up GMO and the horror stories. He who controls the food controls the world.

[Ozark Lady]

I keep looking at the ruin, the electric company did... all dead and yucky looking.
I would like to extend my garden, to do that to the north is to run into the herbicide areas. To the east, is the highway, and to the west is the mint patch, that I allot to the bees, south is heavy forest.

I look at my future garden, it is still tree covered. But, at this edge of it, I could begin gardening, except there is a strip of about 8 feet where the electric company did their diabolical spraying.

Okay, so does that herbicide get into my soil?
What do I do with the plants killed by it?
Can I remove the dead mess, and plant?
I read to test whether a field is still herbicide issue you plant beans and if they won't grow you know there is a problem.
I can't grow beans on a good day, so how is that going to help?
I suppose I could plant some in a none sprayed area and compare what they do?

How do I go about cleaning my land of the filth of that herbicide mess?
Where do I start? By removing the dead stuff I am sure, but do I need gloves and trash bags, and simply put it in a landfill?
Can I give it to the electric company? It is their mess after all!
And get this, the tall trees that touch the line, are alive and sprouting! They killed my stuff, and polluted my soil in vain! Grrrr.

[gixxerific]

OL dig it up and drop it off at their front door with a gallon of gas and a match to boot.

Of course don't actually do that ............................................

[applestar]

When they had that "hay field broadleaf herbicide passed through horses
digestive system and ended upin manure" problem in England, the plants that showed the symptoms were tomatoes and potatoes (tiny mutant leaves and shoots). So why not try tossing some tomato seeds there?

[Ozark Lady]

I took photos today, of the tall ones, with leaves, and the destruction underneath of my elder berries and grapes, that won't even get up there. I will definitely deliver the photos to the electric company, maybe even the newspaper. I am that furious.

I will also bag up the trash and photograph that... The war is on!

I am also making no spray signs so they can't sneak in here and do this again.

I look all around, the worst of their spraying is not viewable from the highway, or they didn't do this anywhere but here.
There is just a bit of odd brush here and there that they sprayed, that I can see driving through... grrrr.

I like the tomato idea. I will plant some there, and when they are yucky, I will take photos of that too. Wonder how the electric company will like that publicity? Can they say "public image"?

[Sage Hermit]

I saw the most disturbing video the other day onn youtube.

A guy in a spray tank back pack comes up to a guys bee hives and intentionally sprays the bees. The owner beat the EDITED - PLEASE REPORT THIS POST out of him.

I swear I will kill anyone who sprays my hives.

[Ozark Lady]

Not if we get him or her first, ha ha...

And I don't even have a hive. I have backed off on bee keeping for this year, just no free time, to get them started. But, I am still a bee keeper wannabe, someday.

I actually protect mint, which is a nuisance, because I know the bees like it.

Oh, I get mad over one bee being swatted, don't even go there about a whole hive! They will move, just give them a moment, no one needs to swat them!

[gixxerific]

He should have gave him a dose of his own "poison" while he was at it Sage.

I had to explain last year to my than DD3 not to kill the bees. She's a killer at heart, shes the one my DS8 goes to for spider stompin'

[gixxerific]

OH MY!

Just went to see if I could find that link Sage. But there is an enormous amount of bee killing videos on You tube. Some just for the fun of it. How terrible is that. really I just don't know what to say about this.

I'm embarrassed to be called a human.

[Ozark Lady]

Hey, don't mess with a gardener and their greenery!

I have a date Wednesday, with the head hancho of the spraying department at the Electric Company. We are going to do a walk through.

I offered him photos, and asked:
What did you use? (Roundup similar stuff)
When are you going to come clean up your mess and haul if off? (don't know when we can get to it)
How do I get on the no spray list? (Ma'am we will never touch your land with spray again!)

He agrees, I should not plant a huge tree in their right of way, and infringe on their use of the air, and they should not ever infringe on my use and enjoyment of the bottom 8 feet of my land, no matter in what way I enjoy it, flower bed, hedgerow, or whatever... unless it can reach the power lines above!

So, no compensation, I am sure, not what I wanted anyhow. But, vindication that what they did was so wrong.

He even asked... Do you sell organic produce? If so this will violate your certificate. I replied, not certified organic, but I eat organically. What gives you or anyone else the right to spray poison on elderberries and blackberries that I like to eat?

He denies that they kill food plants, and said they hired a contractor...

Yes, a contractor that not one person on the crew spoke english, and when my son was telling them no they nodded and kept spraying!

So, likely nothing to gain by my protest, but I still am going to make them accountable for the mess they made. If only by wasting the head man's time in walking over the mess. Think that will discourage their spraying?
I told him, there was a 5 minute job cutting tall trees, and instead they wasted an hour killing brush, and the trees are alive and well!
How is that cost efficient?

Don't mess with my greenery... I eat wild plants!
Makes me a wild woman! ha ha
I know, I am mean.

[DoubleDogFarm]

ON your walk around, ask him, what the cost differences would be in, installing all utilities in the ground vrs maintenance overhead. Our Island is slowly puting everything in the ground. Fewer outages do to trees falling, branches, car wreckes, etc.

[Ozark Lady]

When I lived in Eastern Arkansas, every time you turned around we had power outages.
Finally, the power company went through and put them all underground. No more unsightly power lines! No more power outages!
It was great.

But as I moved west, first to Central Arkansas and finally to the Western edge, they have poles again.
The logic is that it is too expensive to go underground with all the dynamiting they would have to do.

Golly, the phone company put their line underground, and my line from the meter to the house is underground, and inspected!

Septic tanks and septic lines all must be down below the frost line. Hmmm?

I probably won't gain a thing, out of my protest, but it is definitely making a statement that I am very unhappy with what they have done. And the contractor will probably get asked to be more particular in where they spray.

It will be in their records, every time a customer protests what they are doing. And sooner or later, they will see it is not cost efficient to annoy the customer.

[cynthia_h]

Be sure and drag him up hill and down dale, showing him *everything* the contractor destroyed.

Get it in writing that they won't ever do that again. Have him write it out himself and sign it with his business title, stapling his business card to the paper.

The idea here is to take up AS MUCH OF HIS TIME as possible, increasing the expense.

Considering the expense they cost you...

Cynthia

[Ozark Lady]

We were unloading my new atrium in front of the house. I had the camera with me, so I just took this picture over the cab of the truck, that is parked in front of my front door.

[img]https://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww281/Ozark_Lady/000_0136_phixr.jpg[/img]

See the elderberry patch on the left? There are raspberries and blackberries, that I am naturalizing all along there. And these were tiny little patches. The one on the right that they murdered was my major source of elderberries.

They also killed a patch of elderberries, just starting outside the garden, I will get photos of that tomorrow, there weren't many elderberries there, but it will show how close to my garden they sprayed their poison.

[applestar]

Yes! Point out to him each and individual actual plants -- he'll probably just think of them as uniformly dead and brown vegetation=weeds.

[peachyness]

Ozark, I would be extremely livid if I were in your shoes! Just reading your posts made my blood boil.

And killing bees for fun? What's wrong with these people? How disturbing.

[The Helpful Gardener]

OL, I'm not so sure I'd let them know you don't want compensation. In fact I'd make like if I didin't get something in return I was gonna stink all over them...

There are only two things corporations understand. One is money and the other is marketing. I'd hit them in one or the other, if not both. Who do you know at the local paper? Get them to do a story. Got a friend or aquaintance in radio or TV? Band the neighbors together and the story writes itself; they LOVE that sort of thing...

Want to make a big change? Make a big stink...

Make him sweat tomorrow...

HG

[Ozark Lady]

I am so glad that the major "mint" patches for the bees were not under the power lines at all.

Why are there so many folks in the world who only care about themselves, and not anyone or anything else?

Live bees, and live plants are not video games where you zap them and when you restart the game they are back again!

[GeorgiaGirl]

Ugh, I hate it too; I'm downwind AND downhill from my chemical-loving neighbor who also happens to be a complete freak who threw a lit firecracker at my puppy a few weeks ago. I would have a chat with him about it, but frankly I don't feel like being civil to someone who would assault a sweet beautiful pup. He's had his house for sale for almost 2 years now... wish someone would buy it or he would get foreclosed on and MOVE.

We want to have a well dug on our property, but we fear all the chemicals that would wash right into it!

[Ozark Lady]

Here is the north edge of the garden:
[img]https://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww281/Ozark_Lady/000_0145_phixr.jpg[/img]

The large bin, is for leaves and compost, at the moment it is holding the dirt and compost that I hauled home.

The tables are the seed starting tables.

Look on the left, see where they sprayed? A bit too close in my opinion.

I changed angles, same basic area, see the compost bin on the right?

[img]https://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww281/Ozark_Lady/000_0149_phixr.jpg[/img]
And of course, Lady always hams for the camera. But, again you see, they sprayed right up to my garden fence!

See the highway? I like to keep a hedgerow of wild things there, to protect my garden, and give me some privacy, plus I grow grapevines on the fence.

My goodness, I hadn't realized how the trees in and around my garden have grown until I saw these photos.

Hard to believe that I still have to shade some of the garden!

[GeorgiaGirl]

Ugh, I hate it too; I'm downwind AND downhill from my chemical-loving neighbor who also happens to be a complete freak who threw a lit firecracker at my puppy a few weeks ago. I would have a chat with him about it, but frankly I don't feel like being civil to someone who would assault a sweet beautiful pup. He's had his house for sale for almost 2 years now... wish someone would buy it or he would get foreclosed on and MOVE.

We want to have a well dug on our property, but we fear all the chemicals that would wash right into it!

[gixxerific]

Ugh, I hate it too; I'm downwind AND downhill from my chemical-loving neighbor who also happens to be a complete freak who threw a lit firecracker at my puppy a few weeks ago. I would have a chat with him about it, but frankly I don't feel like being civil to someone who would assault a sweet beautiful pup. He's had his house for sale for almost 2 years now... wish someone would buy it or he would get foreclosed on and MOVE.

We want to have a well dug on our property, but we fear all the chemicals that would wash right into it!

Too bad you don't live by me I would go have a "chat" with him. Oh it wouldn't be civil though. One thing you don't do is mes with me my or my family. It WILL get real ugly real quick.

[The Helpful Gardener]

Speaking of chats, how'd it go OL?

HG

[gixxerific]

Yeah how did it go OL. It sure looks like they came awfully close to your goodies there.

[Ozark Lady]

The chat and walk was delayed.
The gentleman will be here within the hour, for our walk and chat.
I will be taking my camera outside with me, possibly even on video mode.
We shall see, what we shall see.
But this won't happen again.

I am David, fighting Goliath for all of us... wish me well!

[Ozark Lady]

Alright!
The power company is bringing in a big truck, and a chipper.

They will chip and remove all this mess. And they admit it should not have been done. As soon as the crew saw: a. the height of the trees they sprayed, and b. that the brush falling would impede a roadway they should have called for a cutting crew.

They are going to refresh the crews concept of what is to be sprayed and what is not. Elderberries, blackberries, and raspberries are on the approved list, so they should not have been sprayed.

And contrary to former comments, there will be a permanent no spray list.

I have just a few days to look at this mess. I also received a packet of what was sprayed, and will be getting the spray log of the day they sprayed with exact details on it. I haven't had a chance to read the packet as of yet.

[Decado]

I now feel your pain OL. Last night an ancient power line in our backyard that should have been replaced 20 years ago finally snapped so the power company (Excel Energy) came by to fix it (and they only patched it instead of replacing ). For some inexplicable reason they went and trimmed the right half of my elm which isn't even touching the wire (leaving the left half intact ) and then stuck us with the job of sawing down and then hauling away a gigantic pile of branches even though we don't have a truck or a trailer to haul it in. They even did a really terrible trimming job and I'm going to have to finish the job they started now. We call the power company who said that we had to haul it away and no one would let us talk with a supervisor. The power company just has too much...well, power.

Edit: Oh and they also trampled my snap peas because they had to walk through the garden. I even told them to watch out for stuff but do they give half a junk? No.

[Ozark Lady]

I am sorry, Decado. If they had cut, instead of spraying, I would have the mess left here too. But, for me, that would not be a problem, I have tree tops all over the place from the loggers anyhow.... firewood!

They did tell me that a silver maple and these stinking black locust are their most dreaded enemy, because they are fast growing, and they are hard to kill with herbicides.

They did tell me that dogwood, redbud, and other ornamental trees, they try not to remove, but to just keep them pruned back. But, their idea of pruning and ours probably doesn't match. They see it as get it away from the lines, we see it as, keep it trimmed evenly!

Check with your city if you are inside a city limits, or county folks if not, and see if they have a tree pick up schedule. Or you might even post an ad on a bulletin board somewhere, folks who cook out, just might come get it all for cooking out. After storms and high winds around here, the cities all have tree pick up schedules! Of course I am 17 miles away, but, I still see the brush piled at the curb when I go to town. The local cities chip the wood and compost all lawn leftovers, and they make free mulch/compost available to folks. Call your city mayor's office etc.

[Decado]

Unfortunately the only option we have for brush removal (which we've looked into before) is to haul it ourselves to a county drop off. I'd let it dry and burn it if I actually had the space to do so but unfortunately I don't.

[The Helpful Gardener]

Wow Dec, sorry to hear; sounds even worse than the crews around here...

OL, glad to hear there is some respite... this is the sort of nightmare I dread and I would likely not be as well adjusted as you about this. I would have been beating the jungle drums already with anyone who would listen...

HG

[cynthia_h]

There was a situation here in Fall 2003 with the local postmaster. I didn't even bother with the mayor, my assembly representative, or anyone like that.

I went straight to my Congressional representative's constituent services staff. (By the way, public utilities derive their monopoly from legislative mandates, so going to a Public Utilities Commission, a legislator, or a Congressional representative isn't completely far-fetched.)

Anyway, I received excellent attention from the Congressional staff *and* a 100% satisfactory resolution of the original situation.

I don't know that there will be a 100% satisfactory resolution of the spraying & utility situation (I'm in the middle of a "Smart Meter" situation with my utility), but just bringing additional power on your own side FEELS good. It can also actually HELP.

If all else fails, find a consumer advocate in the media and make a lot of noise. Show Big Bad Uncaring Utility Stepping on Stalwart, Health-Conscious Gardener (even better if you have small kids; the media love kids).

Cynthia H.
Sunset Zone 17, USDA Zone 9

[The Helpful Gardener]

Cynthia is of the same mind as I on this topic. Getting another advocate could be a big help in troubles like this...

HG

[Ozark Lady]

Oh, I blew my top when I first saw it. I was too angry to talk and still be a lady! So, I just pouted (very unladylike) for awhile. Then, I walked and looked, and part of it was my fault. I am not blameless here.

I knew that it was my responsibility to keep the plants under the power lines low growing. And I missed those locust and maples that got too tall and actually led to the spraying issue.

I am allowed to grow in the first 8 feet. If I had cut those taller trees and held them to 8 feet, by feeding them to my goats, then they would have had no cause to cut or spray! My fault and I share the guilt.

But two wrongs don't make a right. They still shouldn't have killed my elderberries in two patches, and my blackberries and raspberries.

And if I had gotten ugly with them, I would have gotten ugly right back at me. So, it was best to take it as... we all live in this world, and I know some folks do spray, your job is tough. But, you should have an opt in, not an opt out! If I had gone ballistic on them, I would have been treated as a fool, a heretic, or worse yet, a tree hugger! ha ha

To be taken seriously, we really must hold in our passion and be reasonable adults. As it is, I told him, every time I see that mess, I get angry all over again. And he said he understood. See, I made him see that I saw his job, and issues, but that he should see mine too.

Think about it: If I had just kept ranting and ranting, how credible would I have been? But, wanting information, asking their advice, and walking and talking, and taking responsibility for keeping the power line clear, that went alot further. I even told him, that I wanted to help educate folks on keeping the lines clear, what is helpful and what is not. And to keep them from spraying so close to houses, and the lake.

And I suggested vinegar as the best herbicide! ha ha

[The Helpful Gardener]

Thanks for clarifying your thinking OL. It is rare in this day and age to hear people admitting guilt (even if I think you are being a little too magnanimous in this instance, but I appreciate your point nonetheless).

HG

[tunia923]

Oh my gosh! I've found my people! I felt like I am the only person I know that doesn't spray chemicals for every little problem. I grew up organic, when it was not yet fashionable or common, but it's nice to see over the years how these ideas are becoming more mainstream. Obviously, though, not mainstream enough.
And this forum makes me rather glad I am one of the fruits and nuts out here in California. With our never-ending water shortage, and the price of water going higher and higher, xeriscaping and planting with natives is really taking off. Of course, this is less likely in new developments, where HOAs still want everyone to look the same. (Although I think I recently read that we have a CA bill that forbids HOAs from banning a landscape installed for low-water usage) But in some areas, it is awesome to see how great a yard can look, with not a blade of grass in sight!
Some people want to take the easy road and spray chemicals. But sometimes just a teeny part of what I say about organics and chemicals actually begins to sink in...

[applestar]

Welcome tunia I think you'll be comfortable here.