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gixxerific
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When to apply corn glutten?

Well when is the right time? I have heard about the time the dogwoods flower or when the forsythias bloom. But I'm not sure when that is.

While I'm at it I have some milky spore as well is there a specific time for applying that?

Thanks

Dono

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Ozark Lady
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Gixx, can you explain corn gluten to me? I don't know what it is for.

I know gluten in wheat contributes to bread making. But corn gluten, what has that to do with gardening?

Milky spore is for grasshoppers? Let me know if it works, even my poultry haven't kept up with them.
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applestar
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Hm, I thought someone else would've replied by now. I'll give it a shot but I'm not 100% up on the answers on this one.

Some kind of enzyme in Corn Gluten suppresses seed germination. So it's often sold for organic lawn maintenance, and the idea is to spread it before crabgrass germinates. The way I heard it, crabgrass germinates when soil warms to a certain temp that I can't remember, but which is exactly the right time to plant seed potatoes, and that is just about when forsythias start blooming. So you want to spread the corn gluten shortly before those yellow flowers start blooming.

Obviously, corn gluten is suited to lawn grass that spreads by runners because it will suppress weed seed germination, but is not suited to clumping type lawn grass that you expect to spread from self-seeding.

Another issue with this is that you don't want to spread corn gluten if you're overseeding your lawn because then, your grass seeds won't germinate. But if I remember right, grass seeds germinate at cooler temp than crabgrass, so you should seed your lawn, WAIT until they're up and growing, THEN spread corn gluten in that window of time BEFORE crabgrass starts to germinate.

Milky spore is a Bt bacteria that infects grub-type beetle larvae that live in soil and is usually used against Japanese and June beetles (but it DOES affect other species as well). I don't think there is a specific temperature-type restriction and it can be applied at any time, but my guess is that, in spring, you'd want to apply it before the existing larvae pupate or emerge as adult, so before the soil warms up too much (say before you're ready to sow beans and squashes).

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gixxerific
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OL check out his video on corn gluten. it is from Paul Tukey one of HG's buydy's https://www.safelawns.org/video.cfm?action=view&video_id=15&show_sponsor=true&KeepThis=true&TB_iframe=true&height=320&width=400

Actually Apple I belive Corn glutten is effective by smothering the weed which is why you want to wait about 6 weeks to put out grass seed. Though spring is not the best time to seed anyway's.

OL this is not super effective at controlling weeds but it does work to some extent. The great thing about it is that it has a 9% ntirogen contnet. That would 9-0-0 in the NPK values. That high of a number is unheard of in organic fertilizer.

I have the same stuff Paul is using in the video, it is made not far from me, so bonus there as well.


I understand you are suposed to put it down when the forsythias bloom. Paul say's up North that is early spring around April. So considering I'm in the middle maybe I should wait until next weekend to apply. Maybe even the weekend of the 26'th?

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gixxerific
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Thanks for the advice on Milky spore Apple I was pretty sure there was no RIGHT time just checking.

OL the great thing about milky spore is that it last for a long time. Though it may take a couple of applications before the bacteria is full dispersed in your yard. The even better thing is when the grubs eat the bacteria they die obviously but while dying the bacteria reproduces by the Billions and than is released into the soil upon the grubs decomposition. How cool is that. :shock:

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Ozark Lady
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Oh okay, no wonder I don't know anything about it, since I have no lawn! :roll:
I wonder if crabgrass would grow here? Maybe that is what I need... something you can't kill, and that really holds on tight when the rains hit!
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Ozark Lady
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I went and looked up milky spore:

Milky Spore is a naturally occurring host specific bacterium (Bacillus popillae-Dutky). It targets and discriminately works to attack the white grubs of Japanese Beetles.

The adult beetle feeds on fruits, flowers, shrubs, garden plants and the foliage of some field crops. At the immature beetle stage, the grub enjoys feeding on the roots of grass and other vegetation to include stems of plants.

Turf inoculation treatments / applications with MILKY SPORE puts in place an on-guard protective blanket on your lawn.Considered the weakest link in the chain and the most vulnerable point to introduce an infection, resident spores in treated turf are swallowed by grubs during their normal pattern of feeding; this starts the demise of healthy grubs. Milky Spore disease then begins to cripple the grub, and within the next 7-21 days will eventually die. As the grub decomposes, it releases billions of new spores.

Milky Spore is not harmful to beneficial insects, birds, bees, pets or man. The product is approved and registered with EPA, Milky Spore will not affect wells, ponds or streams.

The ideal way to combat area infestation is through organized community efforts. Large areas treated with Milky Spore can result in long term control.
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applestar
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Ozark Lady, Please edit your post and attach the link from where you found the text.

While marketing hype like that makes it sound ecologically benign, I'm pretty sure that Japanese Beetles are not the *only* beetle larvae ("grubs" makes them all sound bad, doesn't it?) this bacteria infects. Some "innocent" baby beetles may be dying grisly deaths as well. :?

Also, Soil Foodweb-wise, it might not be best course of action to artificially super-boost a single strain of soil bacteria.

That said, I did apply Milky Spore a few years ago in a limited area surrounding where a wild grape vine grew and attracted an unbelievable number of JB's.

It's a tricky issue that I haven't reconciled yet. :roll:

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applestar wrote:Ozark Lady, Please edit your post and attach the link from where you found the text.

While marketing hype like that makes it sound ecologically benign, I'm pretty sure that Japanese Beetles are not the *only* beetle larvae ("grubs" makes them all sound bad, doesn't it?) this bacteria infects. Some "innocent" baby beetles may be dying grisly deaths as well. :?

Also, Soil Foodweb-wise, it might not be best course of action to artificially super-boost a single strain of soil bacteria.

That said, I did apply Milky Spore a few years ago in a limited area surrounding where a wild grape vine grew and attracted an unbelievable number of JB's.

It's a tricky issue that I haven't reconciled yet. :roll:
I agree. In nature, to much of anything usually is not a good thing. Especially if that "too much" was brought on by man. Everything in the soil food-web needs to be in balance. If you apply a little bit of an "artificial" (man-made?) increase, nature will probably be able to go back into balance on its own. It's when we start to push things too much to one side, and then keep pushing to keep them there, that we run into (create) problems.

Just my opinion, anyway :lol:.
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