User avatar
Jbest
Senior Member
Posts: 209
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:47 pm
Location: Zone 5B Pennsylvania

Organic my foot!!!!!

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQ31Ljd9T_Y[/url][img]https://www.smileycons.com/img/emotions/207.gif[/img]
Life's Journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body,
but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting,
"Holy crap what a ride!!"

User avatar
webmaster
Site Admin
Posts: 9148
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2004 5:59 pm
Location: Amherst, MA USDA Zone 5a

This is not investigative journalism, all they did was flip the package over to see where it was made, something everyone should be doing. It is clearly labled, so it should not be shocking or surprising to anyone. What is surpising is that anyone would NOT know it's made in China. It's clearly labled.

Everyone should always review the labels of everything they buy. Not only for where it came from, but consumers should also review the values for sodium levels, cholesterol, and the ingredients used in everything they buy.

I have long avoided the WF branded packaged organic food because it's CLEARLY LABELED as made in China and I am not comfortable trusting their certification.

User avatar
Jbest
Senior Member
Posts: 209
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:47 pm
Location: Zone 5B Pennsylvania

I wonder how many people are that vigilant. This summer I bought an expensive tool which brand I had bought before and they were always built in Switzerland. Low and behold, it was made in China. I wonder how long before the Jolly Green G will come from China?[img]https://www.smileycons.com/img/emotions/132.gif[/img] John
Life's Journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body,
but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting,
"Holy crap what a ride!!"

User avatar
webmaster
Site Admin
Posts: 9148
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2004 5:59 pm
Location: Amherst, MA USDA Zone 5a

The issue isn't so much that it's coming from China, most things are made there anyway. The issue is WF promotes themselves as promoting local produce. So it's surprising to see Organic Vegetables from China. However, people should be looking on the labels anyway, not just for where it's made, but for ingredients and nutritional data.

For instance, Mario Batali pasta sauce is not made from tomato puree, it's made from whole fresh tomatoes. Additionally, every ingredient listed on the label is the same as you would use in your own kitchen, unlike other brands where the ingredient label features ingredients not commonly found in the average cupboard. There is a taste difference.

Many of the box rice products have seasoning packets containing outrageous amounts of sodium. Packaged microwavable Indian food contains outrageous amounts of sodium and fat. Unless you're only buying fresh produce, it's insane to NOT read the labels.

User avatar
Ozark Lady
Greener Thumb
Posts: 1862
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:28 pm
Location: NW Arkansas, USA zone 7A elevation 1561 feet

A bit off topic, but, still on topic.

I was label checking at the grocery store.

Anyhow, just being dumb I flipped the "sale" frozen vegetables over for where they came from... I dropped them quickly...Made in China.

What? Don't we grow green beans, corn, peas here anymore?
How can it be cheaper to import them?
What fertilizers are approved for them, what pesticides? DDT?

I went to buy wire, price is up alot. I asked why... China put the locals out of business, and now set their own prices... no competition.

This led to trying to find out where the gasoline for my truck comes from... and on and on...

Label reading can really open your eyes... but give you lots of questions.
Talk to your plants.... If your plants talk to you... Run!

User avatar
webmaster
Site Admin
Posts: 9148
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2004 5:59 pm
Location: Amherst, MA USDA Zone 5a

What? Don't we grow green beans, corn, peas here anymore?
How can it be cheaper to import them?
Are Americans going to work in the field for two dollars a day to get it done? No.

Can American farmers bring in illegal aliens to get it done? No.

Are Americans willing to pay higher prices at the Farmers Market for locally grown produce and meats? Most can't afford it. I buy locally produced chicken that costs three times as much as the chemical laden factory chicken at the regular grocery store, for health reasons as well as to support the local American farmers.

People want cheap produce and cheap will come to them locally when Americans are willing to work for dollars per day. If it can't be done here then it will be done elsewhere. If you don't like it the only alternative is it to grow it yourself or by putting money where your mouth is- which not all of us can afford because employing Americans to do farmwork is expensive. ;)

Tigerlilylynn
Cool Member
Posts: 77
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:03 pm
Location: Middleburg Hts., OH

May I present you with a heaping helping of WORD!!!

It's the same bottom line logic that gives us the lower quality hybrid fruit and veg in the supermarkets because they select for shipping/shelving life, regular shape, high yield, yada yada over taste.

User avatar
Jbest
Senior Member
Posts: 209
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:47 pm
Location: Zone 5B Pennsylvania

webmaster wrote:
What? Don't we grow green beans, corn, peas here anymore?
How can it be cheaper to import them?
Are Americans going to work in the field for two dollars a day to get it done? No.

Can American farmers bring in illegal aliens to get it done? No.

Are Americans willing to pay higher prices at the Farmers Market for locally grown produce and meats? Most can't afford it. I buy locally produced chicken that costs three times as much as the chemical laden factory chicken at the regular grocery store, for health reasons as well as to support the local American farmers.

People want cheap produce and cheap will come to them locally when Americans are willing to work for dollars per day. If it can't be done here then it will be done elsewhere. If you don't like it the only alternative is it to grow it yourself or by putting money where your mouth is- which not all of us can afford because employing Americans to do farmwork is expensive. ;)
There is no better motivator to get a job than hunger. When we stop paying young able bodied people to set on there butt and do nothing, :( there will be plenty of people applying for those jobs. John
Life's Journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body,
but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting,
"Holy crap what a ride!!"

User avatar
Ozark Lady
Greener Thumb
Posts: 1862
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:28 pm
Location: NW Arkansas, USA zone 7A elevation 1561 feet

I honestly expect, chinese type foods, to be Made in China, and am disappointed... Made in.. somewhere else.

But, funny thing that day... a huge bag of rice... Made in Arkansas...
That's right... What is that old saying... Not for all the rice in China?
Well, the rice I found that day, was made here!
I told ya I saw rice fields!
Well, we used to rotate: cotton, soybeans, and wheat. And our closest neighbor grew rice, and rotated in wheat or soybeans, not cotton.

I decided... to really know where my food and tobacco comes from, and what is used in growing it... I need to take responsibility. I went on a seed buying binge, and have been reading up on how to grow alot of new items for 2010.

The more items we can grow, the less items we must purchase, therefore, we have freed up more funds to be able to buy that high quality locally produced item, and help support a local farmer. Maybe, even do some bartering for other foods.

I wonder what the China person would think when they see... Grown in Arkansas USA on their bag of rice? Probably... Don't we grow rice here?
Talk to your plants.... If your plants talk to you... Run!

User avatar
Sage Hermit
Green Thumb
Posts: 532
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 8:20 pm
Location: Finlaysen, MN Coniferous Forest

There's a joke in here somewhere about someone who eats only locally grown organic food getting hit by a semi hauling frozen Chinese cauliflower.
Last edited by Sage Hermit on Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:46 am, edited 5 times in total.
You can solve all your problems in a garden/laboratory.

User avatar
Ozark Lady
Greener Thumb
Posts: 1862
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:28 pm
Location: NW Arkansas, USA zone 7A elevation 1561 feet

I guess, that I wasn't clear.

I bet the Chinese people have the same thoughts...
Don't we raise rice? What about the US, laws.. GMO's, pesticides...
How can imported rice be cheaper than ours?

It just strikes me as odd.... different countries allow different chemicals... but still allow food grown in countries with differing laws.

It does work both ways!

In fact, I have read of countries not wanting American agricultural products. Some things that commercial growers are allowed here, are in fact, banned in other countries.
Talk to your plants.... If your plants talk to you... Run!

The Helpful Gardener
Mod
Posts: 7493
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 2:17 am
Location: Colchester, CT

OL you want wierd?

They make loads of pesticides that cannot be used in this country, but you can ship them elsewhere...

The FMC Corporation, HQ'd in Philly, manufacures a producty called [url=https://www.pesticideinfo.org/Detail_Product.jsp?REG_NR=00027902874&DIST_NR=000279]Furadan[/url] that was banned here because it is incredibly toxic to soil biology, fish, well everything really...

Despite the increased off-label use in Africa by herdsmen to poison lions, which it does easily as it is an ACUTE toxin, and despite the fact that it is a known cholinesterase inhibitor (it delays or stops chemical messages from cell to cell in your body, actually messing with synaptic response), becoming more and more linked to Parkinson's and other neurological issues, the company is fighting the EPA ban here! To hell with lions, or Americans or being able to hold a pencil or a fork, they have a right to make this stuff!

So if you are surprised that some company is fudging on green beans, put it in context. There are truly evil agendas being pursued in the name of economic gain to day. Chemical culture leads the pack in my mind, but our food sourcing is under assault on a number of fronts.

There is GM proliferation, the new "food safety" bill is a ruse to put small farms out of business with undue burden of record keeping, big agribiz is sending the growing overseas where it can't be monitored (do we REALLY think Whole Paycheck is about local and organic?), and goverment has inserted itself into the food chain in a manner that supports business over nutrition (if you doubt me there read "Everything I Want To Do Is Illegal" by Joel Salatin. He and I may not share political views in general, but he is a farmer I can agree with).

So what is our answer? Grow everything ourselves? Unlikely, but let's take a stab at it. Look at what AS takes out of a little yard in Jersey; quite amazing... I got a ton of potatoes out of some throwaway compost fixins and some chicken wire; LOTS more this year you bet. Tater grew a crazy plant from Ecuador this year that he was still eating a week ago 21 lb.s of tuber from a 6'X6' plant and get this tastes like a mix of melon and pear and it has no sugar, doesn't rot and it won't kill you like high fructose corn syrup is killing Americans...

John has scratched the surface and is recoiling from the smell, but our current food production in this country is rotten to the core. We ingest empty calories with toxic additives and eat more and more because they do not satisfy us. Yet I had a vegetarian platter at my friends restaurant the other weekend that I couldn't finish because I was full so quickly (not my usual MO, just ask friends and family. I'm a clean plater and usually up for seconds).

John and Imani use local suppliers they know and trust to get the freshest, most nutrient dense food they can find, They take particular care to prepare it in ways that retain the most nutrition, and they craft foodstuffs you would not believe (John's sub for sour cream is made from soy milk and macadamia powder and I may just give up the real thing for that). If you are in Hartford, Check out the Alchemy Juice Bar and Cafe, and you do NOT need to be a vegetarian or vegan to appreciate this food; it is AMAZING.

And it informs me how we should be eating. From withing fifty miles whenever possible; hey, from our backyard whenever possible. Little meat, lots of veg. I find it hard to believe I am typing those words, but it is so true, and I have come a long way in the last two years. We had a little bison in the marinara last night, but no meat today. My blood pressure is down and I am losing weight, so what's not to like? Get off sugar and HFCS. That stuff is toxic to humans. I have started using agave nectar, more expensive but I use less. And did I mention I'm losing weight? I'm losing weight, and I'm not exercising a BIT. Winter doldrums. Losing weight.

You do the math... but something has GOT to give.

HG
Scott Reil

User avatar
Ozark Lady
Greener Thumb
Posts: 1862
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:28 pm
Location: NW Arkansas, USA zone 7A elevation 1561 feet

I agree with you!

We need to be responsible for our own food supply.

I remember when we thought, just buying the 'real' food and not mixes or boxed meals were eating right!
Talk to your plants.... If your plants talk to you... Run!

User avatar
boggybranch
Full Member
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 10:19 pm
Location: Ashford, AL (Zone 8b)

webmaster wrote:
What? Don't we grow green beans, corn, peas here anymore?
How can it be cheaper to import them?
Are Americans going to work in the field for two dollars a day to get it done? No.

Can American farmers bring in illegal aliens to get it done? No.

Are Americans willing to pay higher prices at the Farmers Market for locally grown produce and meats? Most can't afford it. I buy locally produced chicken that costs three times as much as the chemical laden factory chicken at the regular grocery store, for health reasons as well as to support the local American farmers.

People want cheap produce and cheap will come to them locally when Americans are willing to work for dollars per day. If it can't be done here then it will be done elsewhere. If you don't like it the only alternative is it to grow it yourself or by putting money where your mouth is- which not all of us can afford because employing Americans to do farmwork is expensive. ;)

In a capitalistic society....where work ethics, greed, and sensibility are all governed by the insatiable desire for more bottom line profits for industrial giants to pay insane bonuses to fat-cat CEO's......it's all about money. I always thought that NAFTA was going to be the downfall of the American economy. On the upside....an, almost, unpecedented interest by consumers in gardening.
Appx. 1,500 sq ft vegetable garden. Special gardening interests is composting and year-round mulching. Use no power equipment, everything is done in the garden using hand tools, only.

Toil
Greener Thumb
Posts: 803
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:18 pm
Location: drifting, unmoored

For instance, Mario Batali pasta sauce is not made from tomato puree, it's made from whole fresh tomatoes. Additionally, every ingredient listed on the label is the same as you would use in your own kitchen, unlike other brands where the ingredient label features ingredients not commonly found in the average cupboard. There is a taste difference.
I wanted to point out that there is tomato purée and then there is tomato purée. If you get the good stuff (usually imported) you can make sauces that taste more like summer.
There's something new growing in the Helpful Gardener Forum! Become a part of it here!

User avatar
Ozark Lady
Greener Thumb
Posts: 1862
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:28 pm
Location: NW Arkansas, USA zone 7A elevation 1561 feet

Does anyone know the standards to be certified organic?

I know what organic means to me and you... but to the commercially organic growers... how organic are they really?
Talk to your plants.... If your plants talk to you... Run!

User avatar
Jbest
Senior Member
Posts: 209
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:47 pm
Location: Zone 5B Pennsylvania

Ozark Lady wrote:Does anyone know the standards to be certified organic?

I know what organic means to me and you... but to the commercially organic growers... how organic are they really?
[url]https://www.usda.gov/wps/portal/!ut/p/_s.7_0_A/7_0_1OB?navid=ORGANIC_CERTIFICATIO[/url]
Life's Journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body,
but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting,
"Holy crap what a ride!!"

The Helpful Gardener
Mod
Posts: 7493
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 2:17 am
Location: Colchester, CT

True that, Boggy; my seed contacts say this year is burying last years numbers, which was record setting already...

HG
Scott Reil

User avatar
Ozark Lady
Greener Thumb
Posts: 1862
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:28 pm
Location: NW Arkansas, USA zone 7A elevation 1561 feet

During the great depression they grew gardens to survive.
Then war came to the world, and they grew "victory gardens".
I think we all see recession, depression, and are leaning towards gardens of our own...
Then add the war on our food...

The frightening chemicals, that they won't even know the affects of for generations and I just feel safer growing my own food.

And then GMO's and they are not even identified in the store! You could be eating them, every meal, unless you grow your own food. And even then, you must be careful that winds don't drift GMO's into your garden.

My objection to GMO's it could be a jurassic park in the making, it will be many, many years before we know the out come of this.

But, we do know the outcome of eating real food, without chemicals, grown in sunlight, and raised with love.... HEALTH!
Talk to your plants.... If your plants talk to you... Run!

The Helpful Gardener
Mod
Posts: 7493
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 2:17 am
Location: Colchester, CT

During the war in Britain there was a lot of growing in every available space; rationing was far stricter than here and you really lived on what you could raise...

They still refer to that as the Golden Age of British Agriculture. Organics ruled the day as nitrates went to explosives, and the distance from field to plate shortened from miles to feet. Nutritional studies showed increases in childhood health, especially among lower classes who normally had little access to fresh veg.

Gotta go, Colin McEnroe is featuring my friend Nancy talking about growing food in the backyard on his radio show! Colin Rocks! So do backyard gardens!

HG
Scott Reil

Gerrie
Senior Member
Posts: 152
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:10 pm
Location: Southern Oregon

My grandparents, who came from Italy, were both decent cooks and ate lots of fresh veggies as far back as my memory goes to the later fifties. My mom, being a first generation American seemed to think the American way was better. I can only remember eating fresh green beans at home occasionally, the rest of our veggies were canned and in later years (the sixties) frozen. As you can imagine I wasn't fond of my mom's cooking compared to my grandparents and fortunately for me we lived downstairs from them so if I had the chance I ate with them. I still cook the way my grandparents did but I have to make more American style stuff for hubby, who I swear must have grown up on ground beef forty-two different ways.

Back to the topic, which is where I meant to be anyway; when growing veggies, I can't even imagine the point of NOT growing them organically. Might as well buy them at the big chain grocery store. :roll: I don't always trust the store food to be organic, either, some of the guys who work where I shop don't know the difference between lettuce and cabbage, how can I trust them to separate organic from the rest?
The spiritual life is first of all a LIFE, it is meant to be lived-Thomas Merton

Return to “Organic Gardening Forum”