Companion planting

[gixxerific]

So what I'm trying to say "science what"?

How about instead of calling it science we call it "data accumulation for the fun of it and we'll try again next year and if it works than that is good no need to write it down or tell anyone or test it against other factors because I know it works and it doesn't matter if you believe it or not because I do and that's all that matters so I will try that again and hope for the best and probably throw a twist in anyways so we shall see where that goes and all will be good until next year when things get changed up yet again but all for the better maybe the worse but that is how things go".

[The Helpful Gardener]

Your version seems a little long, Gixx, but you forgot "and I'll compare my findings with other people doing the same thing..."

My shorthand may be controversial, but it IS easier...

I'm thinking of how permaculture sprang up. It began with Fukuoka-sensei, but the rice and barley model makes no sense for Mollison and Holmgren in Australia, so they come up with new methodologies for Oz. Then as permaculture spreads to other places, with new people certifying all over the planet, they begin to develop tactics fromtheir local environs, with all that still being disseminated to the permaculture community at large...

So as the movement grew, so did the shared data. Certain ideas like keypoint water retention stay the same no matter where you are, but plant guilds are as specific as the ecosystem you are living in. The baseline info becomes the central teaching and regional differences inform all the rest with new specifics.

In this manner, in about three decades, Fukuoka's legacy has spread across the planet and continues to do so. Mainstream science has largely ignored this strategy as this strategy largely ignores mainstream science. But it is not hubris on either part; it is simply that lab science is about specifics, and permaculture is about holistic views where overall effect is more important than any particular part. No suprise one has little use for the other...

The good news is science is getting a little more holistic and permies are starting to gauge some of the specifics, so there may someday come a meeting of minds there. I hope so; each has important things to share with the other.

So that's the thought I'm having here talking about "science" in our backyards and fields. The sharing of information is the seperating issue for humans from the rest of the species (although I do see some interesting new stuff about animal learning), and it remains our best evolutionary "trick" we've learned to date. Every great human advance has been preceeded by a sharing of a meme, so why not us too?

HG

[Joyfirst]

I trust experience more than science. I believe, that science finds what it is paid for. That's why it still "can't" find a cure for cancer. Cancer is a huge bussiness.
Onions are very good around squash and cucumbers - saves them from the bugs.

[rainbowgardener]

Cancer is big business, but so is anti-cancer. Who ever comes up with a real cure, especially one less debilitating than current treatments, stands to make millions of dollars and a nobel prize! It's very difficult, because cancer isn't one disease it is many different diseases, each one with likely multiple causes (genetic vulnerability, plus environmental insult, plus likely some viral intervention). The causes and mechanisms involved may even vary from individual to individual as well as over time...

But I probably shouldn't even have commented, because all of us are way off topic here on a companion planting thread!

So to get back to companion planting: I've never grown borage before, but started some from seed this year (VERY easy! stuff grows like mad!) because bees are supposed to love the flowers. After I already had it growing I read that it is a good companion plant for tomatoes. So I stuck some in the bed where the tomatoes will grow. Put it in the ground yesterday, because the stuff is supposed to be frost tolerant. It's out there now under plastic. I'll go check pretty soon be sure it made it through the night. Anyway it's kind of like one of those jokes about having a tiger barrier around your house -- see it's working, no tigers! The borage is supposed to repel tomato hornworms. But I personally have never seen a tomato hornworm anyway, so how will I know if it works! But I figure attracting pollinators is always a good thing...

[gixxerific]

How true RBG. If well dispel all the possible myth of this plant helping this plant and this plant hurting that plant. We still have the beneficial insect attractors in our gardens and that counts for something right. Plus a lot of companions will pretty up our garden.

I have a bunch of different seeds of helpful flowers. I have been thinking about mixing them together and than direct seeding that way possibly around the edges of the garden. If nothing else it will look more attractive than just a Veggie garden. Plus attract many good bugs and hopefully repel the bad bugs. We shall see.

[applestar]

Borage grows pretty big, so don't put too many in there. Also, they self-seed. Last early spring, I had what I thought looked like pumpkin volunteers in my garden, and they turned out to be borage. So be vigilant about picking the flowers (they're good AND PRETTY in salad), then let a few to go to seed. Leaves are edible cooked (though some people say young leaves are supposed to be good in salad, I think they're too fuzzy to eat raw).

Bees do love the flowers. I do too. I was constantly picking them to eat for snack last summer

I have a bunch of borage recipes if you like. I'll have to check them for forum-worthiness.

Well, this one's from a CSA website:
https://www.mariquita.com/recipes/borageleaves.html

[rainbowgardener]

I like the elixir for melancholy! I agree, I had read that you could put the leaves in salad, but now that I have seen them, they are very prickly! It is not inspiring me to put one in my mouth! But I love putting flowers in my salads.

Borage is another one of those great discoveries. Every year I try to grow something I've never done. Some times the are a bust (I was not impressed with heliotrope or flax the years I grew those) and sometimes I find something that I love and grow every year after that. Nicotiana was one of those a number of years ago. Now I don't even really have to plant any, it self seeds (but I do have some under the lights just in case). Borage may turn out to be another- it is so easy to grow and cold hardy. It's planted in the ground already (under poly tunnel).

[applestar]

[gixxerific]

I picked up some barge and chamomile seeds the other day. Good to know they are easy to grow. I like easy.

[rainbowgardener]

I'm finding the borage super easy. The one time I did chamomile I direct seeded in the ground in an area with not great soil and a lot less than full sun. Not surprisingly it didn't do real well. Have to try it again some time and give it a better chance!

[Joyfirst]

Borage is very easy. Sow it once and it will keep seeding itself. You can eat it too - flowers and young leaves, and juice older ones(they are too spiky to eat).

[Annemieke]

I trust experience more than science. I believe, that science finds what it is paid for. That's why it still "can't" find a cure for cancer. Cancer is a huge bussiness.
Onions are very good around squash and cucumbers - saves them from the bugs.

People are curious beings and like to investigate. In past science often began with experience. People noticed something and began to collect data about it. Not every human experience is (very well) investigated yet. It takes money to do that.

The only companion planting I currently use is planting parsley and tomatoes together. I sprinkle parsley seeds among the tomatoes while planting them. It works very fine and I have every year wonderfull tomatoes and parsley.

Annemieke

edit: made some mistakes in typing

[The Helpful Gardener]

Anne makes a good point; we have given science over to scientists, but in the beginning scientist was a moniker you plunked on yourself because you tried experiments yourself. Joseph Priestly started out writing a book about the electrical scientists of the mid eighteenth century and ended up becoming the greatest of them all because he found it so interesting.

So our "science" of the backyard springs from not so humble roots; Gregor Mendel, the father of genetics was a monk with a garden! We need not have PhD's to do great things in the garden. Mrs. Meserve and Polly Hill and Father Fiala among countless others have shown us that those with a love of gardening can make great contributions without a doctorate. Keep experimenting, and if you really want to get scientific, document...

HG