Ye Old Farm

[Sage Hermit]

The whole farm will be covered in wild flowers naturally. They rarest flower I saw there bloomed for only a few days in the woody area. My goal is to propagate the State Flower as well as the already existing sea of wild flowers here. Really I can't do the sea service you have to see it late spring and I didnt have a camera at the time because I lost it. The whole place is covered in bees and flowers its like the neatest thing.
It would be nice for there to be a lot less grass and a lot more plant diversity because really the grass there is out of control. During the summer I mowed the majority of the grass and left it looking like a wild life conservation area. Where ever there were some milkweeds or violets or something other than grass I would carv out a patch. now what do I do?
Always open for suggestion. And I mean I am only just a beginner gardener but I learn as I go. Anyone can make a suggestion. My dear friend Donald Hegreberg and his wife taught me just about everything I need to know about bee keeping and even toured my friends on occasion. Its not the hardest thing in the world. A bit on the expensive side if you are selling large quantities for equipment but if its for personal use every person in the US should have bees for gods sake. well maybe not every one but a bigger chunk at least.

[img]https://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa267/adaba/aba037.jpg[/img]
So the area where the lillies are are submerged in an annual flooding . Down the river is a large marsh.

[img]https://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa267/adaba/aba038.jpg[/img]

Now I took there 2 pictures today so I could really get your feedback on what to do with this space. It gets a lot of shade and right now its flowing water underneath the grass due to a drainage ditch. If you stepped in that grass your feet would sink into mud. Could I grow rice in there? Just curious.

the rest of the farm is mainly full sun. I'm not certain what was grown here but there are drainage ditches carved into the field and an out dated irrigation system of some olden times. Once apon a time there was a well and water purification equip. I plan on really going crazy with salvia sunflowers and all the plants for pizza making basically this:
Beets 60 - 65°F, pH 6.2 - 6.8, 55 - 70 days, sow 1/2", row 12-18", full sun
Strawberries pH 5.8 - 6.2, sow -1/4", row 18", full sun
Raspberries pH of 5.6 - 6.2, row 18'', full sun - partial shade.
Mint 70 ...°F, pH 6.5, row 12 - 18'', full sun - partial shade
Sage pH 4.2 - 8.3, sow 1/4", row 12"
Basil Hot, pH 5.5-7.0, sow 1/4", row 12-18", full sun
Morning glory Hot, pH 6.5 - 7, sow 1/2'', row 8 '', full sun
Sun flower Partial sun
Rosemary 65°F, pH 4.5-8.7, row 12-15, full-indirect sun
Cucumber 65 - 75°F, pH 5.5-7, sow 1/2 - 1"
Moss Cool, pH 5 - 6.5, shade
Milkweed 75˚F, pH 5 - 6, sow 1/4'', row 6 - 24", full sun
Cat's Tail sow 0
Catnip pH 6.1- 7.8, row 15-18, full sun Wink
Tomato 70 - 80°F, pH 6 - 7, row 12 - 18'', full sun
Onion 55-75°F, pH 6 - 7.5, sow 1/2", full sun
Garlic Cool, pH 4.5 - 8.3, sow 1 - 2", row 4 - 6", full sun
Coriander
Green Pepper row 18-24''
Jalapeno row 12-15''
Cyan Pepper row 12-15''
Clover sow 1/4'', row 0 full sun
Broccoli 50 - 70F°, pH 6 - 7, row 18", full - indirect sun
Carrots 60 - 70F°, pH 6 - 6.8, full sun
Ginger
Rhubarb

'' = inches
' = feet

..looks like a potting bench to me, Sage.

Looks like 200 lbs to me.

[The Helpful Gardener]

Put it on cinder blocks; that will stay put...

When you mow you actually favor grass, so less of that where you want diversity...

Collect seed of stuff you like and scatter; seed balls (like Fukuoka-sensei) would make them more likely to survive...

HG

[Sage Hermit]

HG- Will have to plow the fields and begin a crop of salvia for that sage honey taste. The seed balls will be most useful for germination protection and safeguarding as you said. Your advice as always is much obliged . And what is a potting bench? A bench used for sitting on while you pot plants in containers? Sorry I am not sure what you mean. I am going to use the apple tree guild and substitute plum trees for the apple. The plums have issues at the moment of perhaps a insect condition visable on the leaves and some deformity of fruit but still remarkably vital. I believe the plums are early golden.

I want to run this one passed you all. Is it a good idea to plow the grass into the beds and just mix it in with the soil with a rototiller? Need some suggestions for making beds.

[applestar]

I have several thoughts:

(1) Organize your list of into perennials and annuals, and subdivide the annuals into cool weather (spring/fall) -- I.e. early spring and mid/late summer planted -- and warm weather (summer) -- I.e. spring planted -- crops. This will give you a better idea about what to grow where.
(2) Drainage ditches (irrigation ditches?) -- don't fill them in without making sure they are counter-purpose to what you need. It'll be easier to destroy them than to dig them all over again. You might want to plant in the spaces in between. Your description reminds me of a local dry field (not bog-grown) cranberry farm. They also allow volunteer blueberries (no doubt contributed by birds) to grow there. But this is NJ and Pine Barrens.
(3) Roto-tilling -- I SO want to say this has to be a bad idea because it would bring up ALL the "seed bank" buried in the soil. Look into no-till agriculture.
(4) That brings me to ask -- will you be using large equipment like tractors? I imagine (2) would be a problem then.
(5) The shaded area will not be good for rice. Rice needs full sun. If you can make use of the drainage ditches to direct the flooding to a sunny area, and the area floods to the depth of about 3~8" then I think it's possible. How long does the flooded area stay under water? Also it's critical to be able to drain the water or at least limit the water for 2~4 weeks before harvest time. (I say that because that's what they say, but I couldn't keep my little paddies dry and they turned out OK. The rice dried out even with wet roots.)
(6) If you're thinking wild rice, wild rice needs clean flowing water, I believe.

Potting bench is a table~countertop high surface, usually used standing, to sow seeds in containers and pot up your plants and stuff. The one sink could be plugged and filled with soil mix, maybe covered with a board to keep it moist and provide additional work surface, and the other one could be used as an outdoor sink with a hose attached to drain into a bucket or directly to the ground. At least that's how I would envision this "potting bench" I would sandwich a board between the cinder block supports to create some shelves below for keeping pots and other stuff. Set against a wall under a shelter (like a barn or a shed, just inside the door) you can hang tools on the wall and have more shelves above the bench. You could hook the sink up to a water supply or just have a bucket of water standing by. You could also gravel/sand filter the water coming out of the drain and re-use the water. ...sound about right, HG?

[Sage Hermit]

What is this Mad Max!? Jeez you 2 are rouge warriors. Applestar I have been looking into that for a long I just needed somoene else to second it. I appreciate your help big time and I will think about the shelf because I already got some seriously ugly set ups. Last year the water nearly all receded by early summer and the lillies bloomed but its all soggy until a couple weeks from now.

Ill try and make a more detailed list of plants and flowers here as the spring moves on

[The Helpful Gardener]

Sounds exactly right about the bench, dividing, drainage, shade on rice, water for wild rice, and ESPECIALLY roto-tilling...

It will be hard work, Sage, but the best bet for new beds is to dig the turf on either side of a four foot row in a two foot wide strip and pile it on the four foot row, grass side to grass side. Cover with hay or straw and cut and leave any weeds that pop through right on spot.

It will be hard work, so only do what you can in a season, but know this way you will never have to do anything to that row again other than to put the hay or straw once a year, and even that will get less and less every year...

[url=https://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2865701754864235132#]Watch this video...[/url]

HG

[applestar]

You're welcome.
Re: potting bench. On further reflection, instead of plugging the drain for the soil side, I would duct tape a screen over the drain. That way, if you accidentally put too much water in the soil mix, the water will drain off.

[The Helpful Gardener]

Or just use a big rubber lab stopper or ready made sink stop; you can pull it and move you mix right into a container underneath. Handy!

HG

[Sage Hermit]

that was a good use of 30 mins. thanks for that vid. I actually watched it before and this time it makes more sense. I like how they are knee deep in straw. I'll tip my glass for Fukaoka.


Just wait till I get a welding torch. I'll show you the meaning of functional scrap metal art.


but t o make the beds you till it once? I'm confused. walk me through the first 3 steps. after that I got it.

[The Helpful Gardener]

I know Emile tilled first, but if you can avoid that so much the better...

I am starting a new bed in a few days It will be four feet wide and I will turf out twenty four inches to either side, flip that grass side down onto my row, dig down the aisles and pile that on top of the upside down sod, cover that with cardboard, water it, and cover that with hay.

Seed starts and purchased plants will go into that, punching out the cardboard lilke in the video. Knocks down the worst of the weed crop from mucking the soil about, and as Emila says, it gets better every year...

Soon almost no weeding, soil improves every year instead of getting plow-beaten, and you extend some new bed the next year. You could use the tiller and do a bigger space, but it will be a bigger mess, especially if you try to till in the turf. I say do a little every year like I did (or buy beer and tell friends; there are angles)

HG

[applestar]

HG, plant some potatoes in that new row would you? So many sources say potatoes are the best pioneers for sheet mulched bed (you saw it in that video too). I tried potatoes in fall-prepped sheet mulched bed last spring and the result was fantastic. I'm going to try a brand-new small area this spring. I just want to see if it's true.

[The Helpful Gardener]

I do my taters in my new tater tower contraptions, this will likely be Three Sisters with weeds as mulch...

HG

[Sage Hermit]

[img]https://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa267/adaba/aba043.jpg[/img]

Made this today by piling up the dirt from both sides and putting the grass side of the sod face down. What is the next step? Should I have let the grass side face up? Was really fun and easy ; only took approx. 35 mins to make 10 foot row.


Ohh I was so excited to do this I forgot all the steps but I guess the sod down was a good call. The cardboard and grass + water will go on ASAP. thx so much yall. I love you guys and gals.

[The Helpful Gardener]

That's it sage... you could even dig the row a little deeper and throw some more soil up, but what you have would work fine...

Cardboard, water, then hay or grass (you saw how easy that was to collect in the Hazelip video, right? Ten minutes of raking and you are set).

Go get 'em tiger...

HG

[applestar]

The grass collecting thing -- I want a sickle but don't have real reason to use one for my little ol' patch of tall grass (the neighbors complain, if you remember). Every time I see one in catalogs, I go back to dreaming that I want one... On the other hand, I'm sort of afraid of having that kind of big sharp blade on the premises.... So I make do with my short-handled Japanese kama.

Day before yesterday, I dug a circular bed with a path through it for this year's sunflower "house". I smoothed the top of the turned over soil in the beds with the back of a rake in prep for the (in my case) several layers of newsprint/kraftpaper.... It's so tempting to just plant in that fresh turned earth! But you want to do the weed suppressing layer. It makes a HUGE difference. I know because I succumbed to temptation one year --> Weed city.

[The Helpful Gardener]

The Hazelip vid shows a couple of ten year old girls filling a wheelbarrow in about two minutes by raking the thatch out of tall grass with a garden(not lawn) rake. Easy peasy and sage has tall grass all about the place. No sickle necessary, and the grass gets to keep growing... (but I was just using my Japanese style half sickle the other day to clear perennial beds and don't want to be without one ever).

I have watched that video four or five times now and get something new everytime. If you haven't yet, take the half hour. As sage says, time well spent...

HG

[applestar]

I watched it through twice so far, but I thought they were collecting pre-cut grass and didn't realize she said thatch. But since you insisted , I'll watch it again next chance I get. I agree it's very inspiring.

Actually you gave me an idea. I have several overgrown areas of grass that need de-thatching, and, although the ground is a bit soggy around my garden still, it's going to be sunny with daytime high of 70ºF for the next couple of days, sufficient, I hope, to dry out the grass so I can dethatch on Sunday.

With my little "wildflower meadow" (it's actually really tiny), I often go around cutting the grass seed heads off with the kama/half-sickle, collecting them in a 5 gal bucket for drowned weeds, THEN go around cutting the grass to use for mulch. It's a work in progress/experimental garden, and I have Sweet Vernal Grass, Orchard Grass, and what I think must be Kentucky Blue but maybe not (it's very dark steely green and grows to 15~18"), as well as a very fine short-growing grass -- that I separated out from whatever was growing in the lawn. I also planted Prairie Dropseed there, and I encourage Blue-Eyed grass to grow wherever they volunteer. In a separate area, I have a patch of barnyard grass that grew out from seeds in a straw bale.

[Sage Hermit]

[img]https://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa267/adaba/aba051.jpg[/img]
Thank you Kaizer Chemicals

[img]https://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa267/adaba/aba052.jpg[/img]
I had to photograph this old sewing machine.

[GardenJester]

nice farm sage. How big is it? are you going for hobby, self-suffiency, or commericial farming?

[Sage Hermit]

Thanks, GJ, its 15 acres. The goal is self sufficient and commercial but leaning on the former.



[img]https://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa267/adaba/Picture004.jpg[/img]
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[Sage Hermit]

I had a guy take my silver bullet trailer (not gunna miss it tbh) as payment for a demo job as well as multiple other jobs. Here is all he did and a few other pictures I took.
[img]https://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa267/adaba/aba054.jpg[/img]
Knock down sauna ROARRR!!!!!
[img]https://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa267/adaba/aba053.jpg[/img]
Check

[img]https://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa267/adaba/aba058.jpg[/img]
Foundation of knocked down building. Site for a green house!!!

[img]https://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa267/adaba/aba055.jpg[/img]
At long last!
[img]https://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa267/adaba/aba056.jpg[/img]


[img]https://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa267/adaba/aba064.jpg[/img]
All that remains of the overgrown zone.

Victory is mine!
[img]https://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa267/adaba/aba059.jpg[/img]
Eagle

[Sage Hermit]

[img]https://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa267/adaba/aba068.jpg[/img]
Sage cluster!! XD Very good to see.

[The Helpful Gardener]

Well, Sage, a clean slate...

Now to draw a new picture...

HG

[Gerrie]

What a project, Sage!! You're taking on the job of a lifetime and then some. I envy your energy and tenacity in it, it would scare me from here to Sunday. We live across the street from a six hundred acre, 100-years-in-the-same- family-farm. The rusted-out machinery, cars, trucks, equipment andfalling down barns are only the tip of the nightmare iceberg over there. Be thankful you don't own that!

If you can find the location of the old Outhouse on your farm, you may find some valuable things like old bottles and historic artifacts.

When we bought our seven acres, ten years ago, I never thought we'd live to see the day we got rid of all the junk. We burned a huge pile for three days straight just to empty the leanto and found a car bumper at the back that must have dated to the thirties or forties. In addition we found out the garage had windows! We never even saw them til we cleared out some of the junk. Ah, those were the days! Some of our neighbors barns have fallen down in a good wind, though you never know when that may happen, it's a cheap option.

Keep up the good work and keep posting pictures, they're very inspiring. I like your potting bench a lot. If you put a five gallon pail or a garbage pail under the sink holes, you can catch and reuse the potting soil that falls through. If I had my way, I'd install a garbage disposal in one of the holes for chopping up kitchen waste, been bugging hubby for that, but he won't go for it so far.

[Sage Hermit]

[img]https://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa267/adaba/Ninjas057.jpg[/img]

Old Feeder
[img]https://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa267/adaba/Ninjas011.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa267/adaba/Ninjas013.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa267/adaba/Ninjas012.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa267/adaba/Ninjas050-1.jpg[/img]

Old but new raised tomato bed.

[img]https://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa267/adaba/Ninjas049-1.jpg[/img]
Layer of dirt and grass and organic mulch. There is also lettuce going in at the end.

I am most pleased with the no till method and I have raspberries gallore thriving there but I needed to try a simpler smaller bed for the front. I'll put in a rain cover and rabit fence here.

just a dinky side project.


[img]https://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa267/adaba/Ninjas043.jpg[/img]
Compost FAIL

[img]https://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa267/adaba/Ninjas026.jpg[/img]
making a teepee ^^

[url=https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=139303#139303]Spring Flowers[/url]

[Sage Hermit]

[img]https://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa267/adaba/add.jpg[/img]

Best surprise of spring was to find this area covered in sage. These plants let off the sweetest smell when flowering. The tractor must have released every sage seed in the overgrown zone. Stinging nettle is the other plant along with raspberies that flourish in this area thus the name overgrown zone. Very prickly but sweet. I make twine from the stinging nettle or use to prop up plants.

Victory again!! ' - '

[garden5]

Wow, Sage, that's an awesome setup you have there. Sure it needs a little work, but that's where sense of accomplishment comes from? .

[Sage Hermit]

[img]https://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa267/adaba/Ninjas002-3.jpg[/img]



[img]https://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa267/adaba/Ninjas010-2.jpg[/img]
(Stachys palustris) Hedge Nettle ~ Mint Family
[img]https://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa267/adaba/Ninjas012-3.jpg[/img]

For those doing organic gardening, do spend some time with me in the [url=https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=39]insect/pathogen[/url] section.

[garden5]

I think Apps will agree with me that all that open space is just begging for some fruit trees .

[Sage Hermit]

This year the plums did not ripen or produce flowers. Still working on massing fukuoka's beds and planting maily raspberies for next year. Planing on doing red bell pepper, 3 sisters, wide variety of mint sage and other herbs, strawberries, blue berries, carrots beets, basically everything I said I wanted plus flowers galore.

Finally landed a sweet job in the cities and can finance this farm on my own.

I pray you all get rewarded graciously by God for helping me.

[The Helpful Gardener]

I hear he's keen on those that help themselves...

We're just cheering for you...

Congrats on the new gig, Sage; just landed a good deal myself. Very happy for both of us. C'mon, economy...



HG

[Sage Hermit]

Originally posted by Sage Hermit
I pray you all get rewarded graciously by God for helping me.

Mother Nature?

[garden5]

Sounds like you have a lot of great things to look forward to next year , great to hear about the new job, as well!

Half the fun of gardening is planning out the future seasons .

Glad to hear your employment is going good as well, HG.

[gixxerific]

Nice place looks like you still have a lot of work in front of you. I want to come and play.

Great idea using all the barn wood for this and that.

Not sure if you know this or not. Not sure either the condition or quality of the barn wood but people pay a LOT of money for it. We see it used as fireplace mantels or beams in ceilings etc. You wouldn't believe how much they pay for this stuff either. Something to look into if that so interest you.

[Sage Hermit]

Tell me about it. I had stacked up all these cedar poles and people in the area were very interested in getting them from me but I need em for building raised beds and stuff.

Come play in my flowers! Next year I plan on starting a massive sunflower patch and harvesting honey. If you like archery too thats fun. We fish in the river and you can catch clams. Would be nice having The Helpful Gardener Community members come and give me feed back but we are almost in Canada. Its by Sandstone, MN and getting subzero temps. is common.

P.S. My list of seeds to swap is almost finished.

" [img]https://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj185/gixxerific/Gardening/Hummingbirds/DSC04077.jpg[/img] "

Go Gixx!

[DoubleDogFarm]

Sage,

I've practically been in your back yard. My cousin and her husband owned Sah Kah Tay on Cass Lake, off highway 2. They sold the resort years ago, but still live in Bemidji. My aunt and uncle owned a resort on Norway Lake. Sunset Resort was the name. Spent 6 weeks there one summer.

My parents are from a small town Noonan ND. Right on the Canada border.

Eric

[Sage Hermit]

Dear everyone,

My goals are 90% complete. last 10% involves building a stable green house and finish collecting native plant seeds.

Seeds:

Sweet Basil + Tai Basil
Native sun flower
catnip
Marigold mixed colors mainly orange.
meadow rue
Valerian
Tomato
Sage brush
Sage salvia officianalis
Mint
Day lilies
Purple prairie phlox
black samson echinachea
black eyed susan
brown eyed susan
morning glories - mixed colors mainly purple.
patunia purple
poppys red

bergamot
hysops
Violets
Ferns lady
Fuchsia
Butter and eggs
Lupine.
Pink clover

Stinging Nettle
Wild Mint




Once I learn how to grow trees from combs and seeds and other methods I will update my list with trees.

We have 2 cedar trees and a lot of pine and other cool trees! I need basswood trees and plum and apple trees.

My vision is to put as many awesome plants and bees in my farm and have super honey! Also I need to figure out the moss cultivation so I can grow it too.

Love

[Sage Hermit]

[img]https://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa267/adaba/Ninjas787.jpg[/img]
Year old. Raspberrie/Catnip/Lemon Balm
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These mounds are growing morels...
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New Mint and Pineapple Sage extension. Sage is turning brown. Rained a lot wonder whats up
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Beginning of double curve
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[Sage Hermit]

[img]https://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa267/adaba/Ninjas882.jpg[/img]
The area I am building in has tons of raspberries and so I will simply relocate them to the mound. The originall experiment used first year canes and this year they reached their full potential and out grew and out produced their free counterparts outside the mound. Food for me and flowers for bees. 0 cost.
[img]https://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa267/adaba/Ninjas885.jpg[/img]

Got the system down. These mounds should be in construction for a long time period.

I added 18 Pineapple Mints, 18 Spear Mint, 18 Regular sage (salvia officianalis), 5 Catmints, 18 Tai Basil, 18, Lavender, 5 Basil Mint, 7 Chocolate Mints, 5 Grapefruit Mint. 1 Goji berry bush, 18 rosemary 10 thyme.

My plan is make a huge arching row around the property of herbs then put some bee hives in later.

I still can't get over the fact that morrel mushrooms were growing in my mounds that were untouched for a year. That was a good sign that the fukuoka style is perfected.

[greenheirloom]

I think it has a ton of potential. Looks like a beautiful old farm. Get out there and get started with it!