Raised rows

[LindsayArthurRTR]

So, I'm gonna do the raised rows next year I definitely think that it's the way to go. I, however, have some concerns...Some questions


How thick is the initial newspaper layer?

What about between your rows?

What do you do for the second year?

Do you repaper then remulch? If you don't repaper, how do you repair the holes you made from this year?

If you were to do a cover crop, how would you sow seed, but still keep the paper's integrity? I mean for crops that need to have their seeds broadcasted.
What about PEANUTS ? How does that work?

What about winter crops?


LOL...Is there suggested reading material on this?

[cynthia_h]

"Raised rows"? Do you mean

--lasagna gardening? (There's a book by this title)

--Bio-Intensive gardening? (John Jeavons, How to Grow More Vegetables...)

--or something else?

Many gardeners hill up their potatoes, or plant squash, corn, and other crops in small "hills" in a row; these might, given enough space, look like a "raised row."

Clue, please?

Cynthia H.
Sunset Zone 17, USDA Zone 9

[applestar]

Try [url=https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21761]this thread[/url]. See if this is what you're thinking of.

[LindsayArthurRTR]

y this thread. See if this is what you're thinking of.

Wow! that is a huge thread! And yes, something like that

I don't want to till anymore (watching me attempt to do so is intensely amusing for my hubby )

I've got about 45'x100' to work with

As suggested by HG, I will be mounding the soil up about 1-2 feet high for the entire length of the row and tamped down on the sides to 45 degree angle. For me that is 45 feet. Prolly about 4-5 feet wide for each mounded row. Dump compost on top of that. I will then cover with newspaper. (how thick...I have no idea) I will then cover the paper with straw or hay. Punch holes through the paper and plant.

The drawbacks I see to this plan, are cover cropping during the winter, and repairing the holes you make in your paper each year.

Hope this has cleared things up a bit

[soil]

your going to have a hard time watering with a layer of newspaper on top of your soil mound and mulch on that, its going to take some time to decompose and allow a good amount of water through. usually the newspaper goes on ground level to take out the existing weeds/grass. the hay mulch is what keeps the weeds from growing out the beds, and it still lets water through. mulch well and you'll have no problems at all. as your plants grow the scraps from the plants are added back on top of the mulch, and more mulch from other sources is added on top as well. the soil microbes cycle the mulch on the bottom that is in contact with the soil and it becomes the plants food. then it will end up as your food or back on top as mulch.

[rainbowgardener]

Applestar, don't forget the great link you just posted in this thread:

https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=142497&highlight=#142497

I'm not quite sure I understand the point of the newspaper on top of the compost-- just as mulch and to hold everything in place?

When starting beds like that we often have newspaper/cardboard underneath the compost, to stop any weed seeds (or grass if you are converting lawn to something different) from sprouting.

Anyway the newspaper will not last real long. By the end of the season it will have broken down and disappeared.

"Prolly about 4-5 feet wide for each mounded row" If you have a 5' wide row, how will you reach the stuff in the middle for caring for it? I know with all this mulch, you should have very little weeding to do, but still it seems likely that you need to reach all your plants, (harvesting, thinning, inspecting for possible disease/ pests, whatever). Part of the point of this kind of gardening is you NEVER walk on the soil where you grow things.

[Sage Hermit]

I have tried to find problems with this type of bed and can't find any. The news paper and in my case cardboard reduces evaporation. The trenches provide passive watering. These mounds are designed so that unless you are in a drought you should not have to water them much and for certain areas not at all. I would put having to redo holes after a year regular maintenance...

It seemed like she sectioned her beds in what I call the argyle pattern, and planted the main crops inside the diamonds and "edge" crops in the low flat equilateral triangles along the sides.

[garden5]

I think you have have two ideas crossed, the newspaper concept is usually implemented when you are putting in raised beds, it'd put down to kill the grass and is then filled over by 1 ft. or more of dirt.

What your talking about is just hilling your rows and for that all you need to do is mound the soil and lay down some straw once the plants come up. For next year, just pull back whatever straw's not rotted, rake the top of the mound to loosen it, and then just plant. At least I think this is what your talking about.

Good luck.

[applestar]

Actually, the 4~5 layer newspaper/1 cardboard layer helps to keep any weed seeds as well as root-spreading weeds in the mounded earth from growing.

By the end of the season, the paper layer would have broken down, but by that time, all the mulch will have helped to suppress the weeds and you won't need to renew the paper layers. Just keep piling mulch.

The Winter cover crop issue (as well as self-reseeding crops) is something I've struggled with. I have to admit I don't mulch as much and all over for this very reason. You'll note in the video and text (you'll find links in that Hay thread) that Emilia Hazelip starts a lot of her plants in the green house using compost. Like her (and Ruth Stout), I've found that big seeds like beans, cukes, squash, etc. will grow if mulch is pushed back and planted in soil, but where the mulch is too thick and less broken down, pushed back mulch mysteriously covers over the area again* and prevents -- especially smaller peas and beans from -- sprouting. Creating pockets in the mulch, filling with potting soil or soil mix and planting seeds works.

* Aside from the mulch naturally straightening out from being pushed aside/bent, I suspect Robins and Grackles as well as Moles and Chipmunks toss the mulch about. Chipmunks and Grackles will also EAT the seeds if they find them.

My speculation on how to go about growing cover crops:

On a newly prepared mound, to sow densely broadcasted covercrop, simply rake smooth with the back of the rake to even out the competition (I.e. nothing else has a head start), then broadcast a FAST GERMINATING covercrop like Buckwheat or Clover.

For winter covercrop after a season of use, I think the best bet would be to NOT add any more mulch/remove some mulch so there is less than 2" layer prior to sowing the covercrop seeds. BEFORE the season is over (at least 4~6 weeks to give the covercrop chance to germinate and grow), broadcast large-seeded/strongly germinating covercrop like Winter Field Peas or grain like Winter Rye or Oats among the existing and still producing plants. When the production plants are done, cut rather than uproot the plants.

... here I have to admit I see a stumbling block. According to M. Fukuoka, it's OK to step on two week old germinating barley, but what about older covercrop plants? Also, would the winter-type covercrops continue to grow past frost until freeze?

[2cents]

This sounds like veggie gardening.
All of the ways mentioned sound like a good start for the first year.
DOD had long rows like yours (what I like to call) free form raised beds.

In the fall Pops would add a layer of compost(usually leaves), run the shovel along the side of the beds/row and toss that dirt on top of the bed(they do collapse just a bit during the year so that step becomes necessary) the sides tend to fall or slide down over time. This process is easy as the side dirt is light and easy to throw back on top of the row/mound/bed. Maybe some manure if available, rake it flat and sow rye.
This mulch/compost and winter rye keeps the weeds to a minimum.

The spring there are a few processes that seem to work equally well:
1) mow the rye and plant right between the rye stems or hoe areas for planting.
2) throw the sides on top again and chop with the shovel.
and my favorite 3) let the rye go tall and push it down or cut it down and toss between the rows as a mulch. Some you can use on top as a mulch.
You might love this one 4) Place potatoes between the rye plants, no dirt on top the potato, the rye will block the sun. As the tater plants grow, instead of hilling potatoes, cut or bend the rye from one side and place around the potatoes as a mulch, later in the year cut the rye on the other side and mound/mulch around the tater plants again. This rye will decay away. If a potato peeks out cover with a light layer of compost. It will be easiest potato picking ever, Trust me on this one.

[LindsayArthurRTR]

here I have to admit I see a stumbling block. According to M. Fukuoka, it's OK to step on two week old germinating barley, but what about older covercrop plants? Also, would the winter-type covercrops continue to grow past frost until freeze?

I'll be trying not to step on any of the mounded rows. Thanks so much for the ideas and input.

The paper on top will serve as a weed seed barrier, I can't see the benefit of mounding 2 feet of yard dirt on top of newspaper The grass is still gonna sprout from the dirt even when covered with mulch if it doesn't have some sort of barrier:)

I don't forsee the paper being an inhibitor of moisture (in liquid form) being absorbed down through it. I DO think that the paper will inhibit moisture (in it's gaseous state) from rising through and away from roots, Which I think is a pretty great benefit

I still can't get my head around not repapering. If it disappears, where is my weed barrier? Where there's a will there's a way. And Weeds always have a will

Thanks again, I would love to hear more!

[hit or miss]

I would think the paper would be gone by the end of the season leaving the mulch on top of the row. It would seem a simple thing to re-paper and mulch over that next spring. Healthy soil would be built pretty fast this way. I'm still trying to wrap my mind around cover crop for the winter. It seems it would be another problem come spring with how to kill the cover crop without tilling it under. Hmmm.

[soil]

the mulch on top is your weed barrier though, youll only get weeds if you don't make it thick enough( and you wont hold moisture). if you don't cover the soil below grass( assuming there is grass) will grow up through your beds and will be a disaster to get out, basically making you re do everything.

the paper on top is going to stop the beds from being watered thoroughly unless you water REALLY SLOW, think of it this way. take a few layers of newspaper, put it over a bowl and water. the water isnt going to go right through its going to puddle on top. when you have a raised bed with sloped sides, the water is going to travel through the path of least resistance, which means the sides, which means your beds are still dry inside.

don't mean to be naggy, but ive seen people fail doing similar things.

[applestar]

It's critical when BUILDING these beds to water well AS YOU BUILD UP.
The way I always start is to fork/fracture the ground, then start layering/piling. Water after each layer to keep everything evenly moist. Paper, then water the paper. Actually, when I built my Sunflower& House (was that linked in the Hay thread? Look for the thread about it in the Permaculture Forum), I found out that the dug up pathway acted like a swale and held water, so I used the puddled water to soak my papers and cardboard before layering them on.