Interesting way to grow onions.

[Gary350]

I stopped to visit my garden neighbor today he had 20 new onion plants about 6" tall. He said, I planted sets. I said, where do you buy sets in August? He said, I bought 100 sets in March and keep them in the refrigerator until I want to plant more. He said, instead of planting all 100 sets for 1 big harvest I plant 20 sets every month and have new onions all summer. Sets that come out of the refrigerator think winter is over they start growing tops in 3 days.

That is a creative idea and it takes up less space in the garden. I want to do this next year but instead of planting 20 sets each time would it not work better to pull an onion then replace it with a set, there will always be 20 onions in the garden all summer. Onions are a 2 month crop. A 20 onion bed only takes up a space 2' x 2'.

[digitS']

From what I have read, it seems to be okay to follow onions with onions. In a way, we will do that with replanting garlic in the same location this year as last. That's in the small garden where there isn't much room for choices.

I've also read about saving sets in the fridge for later planting. Instead, we have all these green onions coming on at the same time. DW wants to try to chop and freeze some of them, as we do with leeks. Works well with the leeks but I'm not sure about the green onions.

Succession planting makes a good deal of sense to me and with onion sets, some of the risk to seedlings is taken out of the picture. They have already grown out of the seedling stage. Next step Gary, is to sow seed for your own sets to be planted in the following year. I wish that I knew something about that . Some of the shallots in my garden each year are grown that way but not the green onions.

Steve

[applestar]

There always seems to be some kind of reason to avoid planting same plant in same bed consecutively — in my garden, alliums can’t be planted successively due to onion flies, and I sometimes have to NOT plant any at all to reduce chance of advancing another generation….

But this is a neat idea to keep in mind. I often end up letting seed garlic cloves and onion sets dry out.

[Vanisle_BC]

Steve:

- I recall seeing a TV documentary where a European farmer said his family had been growing onions in the same field for 3 generations (!)
- We freeze onion slices and chopped green onions. Wish I could 'flash freeze' them: Water in the onion slices freezes and is annoying, but they're quite usable.
- I like your idea of growing seed to save 'sets' in the fridge. Do they/would they not sprout in there?
- Shallots: I grew "ambition" from seed, expecting bunches of shallots to divide & replant. I only got single bulbs. Any idea why?

[Vanisle_BC]

I've grown tomatoes in the same bed for at least 10 years with no problem.

My garlic has often been grown in the same bed in successive years: No problem, but then it got white rot, in a bed that hadn't seen garlic for 2 or 3 previous years. That bed now has a big post with a sign - "No alliums!"

A buddy also got white rot in his garlic, same year (!). He sprayed the infected area with bleach & harvested the other, unaffected plants. As far as I know he successfully raised garlic again the next year, in the previously infected, sprayed area.

[imafan26]

I guess it depends if you don't have any major diseases or issues, and you can keep up the fertility in the bed, you can probably succession plant for a while. I do have garlic sprouting in my refrigerator, but I know I cannot plant garlic too far out of season. I found out the hard way that garlic bulbs get smaller if the day length isn't right.

[Gary350]

I don't think onions are a problem to plant 6 times in same location for 1 summer, or same location for several years. Onions & garlic need full sun all day, I notice onions on the south end of a 35 ft row grow larger than onions on the north end of that same row, the north end of that row gets 3 hours of shade in the evening. Some plants require 14 hours of full sun & some don't. Potatoes are the only crop I ever heard people claim not to plant twice in same location but commercial potato grows do it. Shade from tall plants can stunt the growth of plants that require 14 hours of sun all day. North south rows give plants sun on both sides of the plants, east west rows the north side of plants gets shade all day.

[imafan26]

14 hours of sun is good for intermediate onions. However, I get a little less than 14 hours on the longest day of the year. It is why I have to plant seed in the fall and harvest in May as the days get longer. If I plant in March, by June 21, the days have peaked around 13.5 hours. Bulbing is triggered by lengthening days, and my days only get shorter, so bulbs actually decrease in size. In December, the day will be 2 hours and 36 minutes shorter at around 10.5 hours. We are marginal on both ends even for short day varieties. It is why I don't grow very much garlic or onions. They don't get very big, even if I get a reasonably good harvest. You have a bit more daylight to play with than I do.

[Gary350]

I watched YouTube videos all winter & made notes what every one said works for them and why. I planted seeds too late it was too cold for seeds to germinate. So I bought 2 month old candy onion plants March 1st. I made an onion bed, not raised bed. Boards on the bed sides hold in water like a levee. I had to make soil inside the bed 2" higher to stay above our spring swamp we get rain 6 days a week. Then I put 2" of mulch over the soil. I planted onions plants about 2" deep 4" apart in the mulch so plants almost touch the soil. Roots grown down until they find the soil and bulbs can grow larger in the soft mulch. Feed plants 21-0-0 to grow large tops 9 to 10 leaves. Intermediate onions switch from growing tops to growing bulbs when day length is 13 hours about May 12 for us. Now onions are growing bulbs not tops. I flood the onion bed with about 50 gallons of water once a week & feed plants 0-20-20 fertilizer to grow large bulbs. About June 14 bulbs are 3" diameter & tops start falling over. Onions are finished growing they need to be harvested soon or they rot if soil is too wet. Online information says, our latitude 34° is intermediate zone. There is an onion grower in south GA his day length is 13 hours June 21 so he grows short day onions. All videos that show people growing large 3" onions all have things in common, they grow Plants not Sets. They grow the correct onion for their area. They use the correct fertilizer. They have soft soil around the onion bulbs.

Picture #2 is our swamp Jan to April I think we had 47" of rain.

[imafan26]

I might be going wrong a bit with the fertilizer. I only add nitrogen, but I don't add any phosphorus or potassium. My soil is loaded with phosphorus, but I could add a bit more potassium to improve root growth. I don't get much root growth in the main garden because the nitrogen is high. I grow most root crops in containers. I have beets growing and I do add a little extra potassium for them.

[digitS']

VanIsle, not all shallots are "aggregated" roots, if I understand correctly. For years, I grew those that were that were simply defined as French & Dutch.

The Ambition is described as an "oval." Maybe that describes a non-aggregated .

The recent variety in my garden is the Zebruna shallot it bunched up. I wanted to try a non-hybrid but kinda jumped the gun on that recently. Saving sets from a hybrid years ago, I replanted them the following year. They flowered or, at least, some of them did. Finally, I saved seed from those and planted a patch. All of those in 2022 are "oval" . I suppose that I will put out a few in the 2023 garden and see if I have seeds to collect.

Old onion seed is notorious for low viability and I suspect that is true with shallots. In fact, they are classified with the same scientific name as onions. DW claims that the Zebrunas are ugly . It's the flavor that I'm interested in and growing success, of course. So, I'm okay with what I have this year .

Steve

[Vanisle_BC]

Thanks Steve. I fancied the Ambition shallot because of its catalog description & local seed availability. I didn't want any going to seed because It's hybrid; but I'd like to grow it annually without having to buy short-lived seed every year; so I hoped it would 'bunch' and could be divided. Following up on your info, here's a couple of clues that tell me Ambition should bunch, but not why mine did not. There's some bonus culinary & storage advice too!

- "The two most well-known types of shallots are the French, A. oschaninii, and Dutch, A. cepa var. aggregatum – or a hybrid derived from one or both species." (Laura Ojeda Melchor, 'Gardeners Path')

- "Ambition (F1) Shallot Seed; Latin Name Allium cepa var. aggregatum" (Johnny's Seeds)

- "The delicate sweetness of Shallots has long been popular in French cuisine, with good reason. Never bitter, Shallots add distinctive flavor to vinaigrette dressings, elegant sauces and savory winter soups. We like to sauté loads of finely chopped Shallots in butter and freeze them as a thin layer in plastic, self-locking freezer bags. It is so convenient to take out a thin envelope of sautéed Shallots and snap off a piece when making classic mussels meunière, pan seared scallops with a finishing beurre blanc sauce or Sunday morning gruyère omelets. Hardiness zones: 4-10. Each 1-pound Shallot Set is enough to plant a 20-foot row.The number of little bulbs per set varies annually. On average, a 1-pound Shallot Set will yield 10 to 15 times as many mature Shallots. To plant, separate the bulbs and plant individually, 1" deep and 4" to 6" apart in rows spaced 18" apart. Dark green shoots will emerge within a couple of weeks of planting. Deer resistant." (John Scheepers)

"Each 1-pound Shallot Set is enough to plant a 20-foot row." I'd like to know more about that.

Haha, when you mentioned claims by DW, at first I thought of "Deutsche Welle" - a German radio station I sometimes hear overnight (in its English broadcasts )

[Vanisle_BC]

Correction; The paragraph from The John Scheepers site refers to the French Gray Bulb sets they sell, not the Dutch 'aggregating' types (which they maybe don't sell). Sorry for confusing the issue.

[Gary350]

I don't know shallots. Not sure I every ate them. I never see them for sale at any garden store. Google says, shallot is a type of onion. Photos show small foot ball shape red onions. I never see them in the grocery stores.

BC, I make an omelet every morning too. From online definition I guess I am making a gruyère omelet too. I swap things around to change the flavor sometimes, gruyère cheese or gouda cheese or cheddar cheese. Sometimes, sausage, chicken, ham. Sometimes, red peppers, onions, rice, bean sprouts, potatoes. Salt & pepper. Sometimes herbs. I fry my omelet in my cast iron skillet. I cook omelet country style golden brown, not yellow.

[imafan26]

I like shallots. It is only available for a short time.

[digitS']

There is not a good reason for shallots to be unavailable that I can think of. They keep extremely well.

When I first began to grow them, I had a small basement with space taken up with a gas furnace and water heater. The first time, there were few shallots and I put them in the garage. It froze in there but the shallots were fine.

I moved but continued that practice since it worked . Many winters later, the shallots still come out in the Spring looking like they did the previous Autumn.

Steve

[imafan26]

I tried growing them, but they got smaller. Not many people buy them. They are not found at all markets and they have not been available all year. The stores may not order that many. I think they are imported, they don't look like they are grown locally.

[Gary350]

WHO sells candy onion seeds besides Ebay for a reasonable price?

The only 2 candy onion sellers on ebay have too much negative feedback to buy seeds from them. Many buyers complain seeds don't germinate.

There seed prices are stupid expensive. 75 Live plants cost 50% less than their 50 seeds.

Last year Dickson Dale Farms had 150 live plants with shipping $35 total. That is stupid crazy price too.

Seeds are my Plan B for next year just incase the Amish garden store does not have Candy Onion plants $4 for a bundle of 75.

[digitS']

I have bought Candy from Osborne and Johnny's. Osborne packets are 1,000 seeds and over $7.

Quick search shows Johnny's with 250 seeds for $5.15. I don't know about shipping .

I have bought seed from both True Leaf and Kitazawa but not Candy onions (different onion seed from Kitazawa). True Leaf now owns both outfits and has Candy for 2.69 for 250 milligrams. Don't know how many seeds that would be or shipping costs.

I have good luck with onion seed but don't trust viability if it is over 2 years old.

Steve

[Gary350]

I read online P & K can be locked up in soil and not available to plants until you add calcium. If you add P & K fertilizer plants can not use it until you also add calcium. Soil might already have plenty of P & K if so add calcium so plants can use the fertilizer that is already there.

Our day length in TN peaks at 14 hours June 21. My intermediate Candy onions are full grown June 15. Onion tops start falling over that is an indication onions have finished growing.

If I plant 20 onions March 1st I would expect them to grow 2X larger than 20 onions planted Aug 1st. To have the same quantity of onions by weight I will need to plant 40 onions Aug 1st to = 20 onions planted March 1st. If I plant 20 onions March 1st then I should plant 24 onions April 1st and 28 onions May 1st and 32 June 1st and so on.