stainlessbrown
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Dependable Method for Starting Onions?

Success with onions eludes me... If they bulb at all, it's small. Usually all I seem to get is what elicits a comment from friends touring the garden is "Wow, those sure are big green onions!..."

Other root crops I do just fine with, garlic, potatoes (I am going to try sweet potato's this late winter/early spring-'yam' varieties). Beets, parsnips, rhutabega's etc all produce well.

I garden in deep raised beds (16"), soil has been worked over the years so it doesn't clump (we have a lot of clay/hardpan in the upper central valley in California), drains well, yet holds the moisture, I supplement in between seasons with calcium (garden lime or calcium phosphate), chicken manure, and direct composting. No pesticides!

I've tried seed, the small onion bulbs, and the sets (bot the bulk bunch out of soil, and six-packs where I've teased the plants apart so they're not overcrowded.

Any thoughts on what method of starting is more "dependable"? A local gardening friend things I may be planting too deep, and he states he places the small onion bulbs with the top just poking out so when the bulb forms much of it is above the surface...

Thanks for any comments/suggestions/questions

DoubleDogFarm
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Are you growing the correct varieties for your climate / day length?


Eric

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jal_ut
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Welcome.
It would be easier to advise you if we knew where you were.

Onions are cool weather plants and need to be planted as early in the spring as you can get on your ground.

I like to get these little bunches of starts at the local garden store.

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stainlessbrown
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I am in Sacramento CA (Sacramento Valley/upper central valley), we pretty much garden year round, and many people put onions in about now- and then again in the spring. I've tried both ...

I have tried what the nursery offers which look like jal_ut bunch, or small bulbs sold in bulk or in bags of 100... or seeds

I've tried red, white, sweet yellow and Maui's - the Maui is thee only variety I've have even marginal success with (fall planting). They are grown commercially in the region

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jal_ut
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OK, that far South, I think I would try short day onions and plant about first of February. Good luck.

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bryce d
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I was wondering when to harvest my red onions?

stainlessbrown
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Vidalia are commercially grown around here- I'll try them!

Thanks

imafan26
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If you are frost free. Onions start better in the fall. Start with seed. Maui or Texas granax are the short day onions. Onion sets that are sold early in the year may not be the right kind for southern gardeners.

Start onions around October from seed (I start October-November in Hawaii). Prepare the soil well it should be deep and rich. A little extra phosphorus in the planting hole helps with root and bulb formation.
I found that onions bulb up better in slightly more alkaline conditions.
In the growing phase, onions need enough nitrogen to form a large green top so side dress with a little nitrogen. If you don't get a lot of leaves going, you won't get very big bulbs. Around March as the days start to get longer, hold off on adding more nitrogen. The longer days and lower nitrogen should induce more bulb formation. Harvest onions when the tops brown and fall over.

If you have too much nitrogen in the soil you will get lots of greens and no bulbs.

Onions need cool weather to produce vegetative growth and longer days and warmth to bulb up. You need to plant at the right time. Plant at the same time the local commercial growers are planting in your area.

I can only grow bulbing onions in one garden successfully. My home garden has too much nitrogen, so I get a lot of green and not a lot of bulbs. My community garden would get good bulbs, but there is a lot of rust. The herb garden has extreme levels of phosphorus, but is alkaline, so I get small bulbs, mainly because the garden constantly runs a nitrogen deficit.

https://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/arch ... ongro.html

stainlessbrown
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I'm not sure my region qualify's as a southern garden. we're latitude 38 N, but in recent years less frost (and rain). The "typical" seasonal climate here has definitely changed since I first moved to the area (late 60's). Then spring and fall seemed like they last maybe 4 -6 weeks and then we plunged into summer/fall.... now we have 4 pretty well defined seasons. Winters are mild (snow a couple times a winter was common... hasn't happened in years) summers while still prone to 100+ waves is more typically 90's (today we're in the 80's with a delta breeze. It's said the climate here is 'Mediterranean"... I wouldn't know, never been there, but grapes are big, and olives are up and coming, and I think most fruits and veggies are grown somewhere in the state


maybe it's too much nitrogen... hmm, I have a spot for a new raised bed, maybe I'll just the local garden/soil and supplement with garden lime to push the pH alkalinity

good info!

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jal_ut
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bryce d, when onions are done the tops fall over. They will then start to dry up. When that portion of the stem just above the bulb looks like it is getting pretty dry, its time to pull them. You can spread them out in a dry spot or hang them to dry a bit more before storage.

Onions are interesting in that all parts of the plant are edible and they can be used at any stage of their development.

I just pulled all my reds Friday.

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rainbowgardener
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I generally consider myself a green thumb, growing most things I try successfully. But I have the same problem, that I end up with onions that vary from large green onion size to bigger than a leek, but not any nice big bulbs. I start onions from seed, which I have done in Oct when I plant garlic and in very early spring, with similar results.

If I plant onion seed in Sept-Oct, in will sprout in fall and then grow through spring and summer, so it has never been clear to me what type of onions I should be growing.

DoubleDogFarm
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Suggested varieties
The following varieties are recommended for Ohio gardens:

Green (bunching) - White Portugal, Tokyo Long White, Beltsville Bunching, White Spear, Ebenezer, Yellow Globe strains.
Dry (storage) - Ebenezer, Yellow Globe strains, Elite, Stuttgarter (from sets).
Sweet (from plants) - White or Yellow Sweet Spanish, Bermuda.

https://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/1000/1616.html


Eric

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jal_ut
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I have not often planted onion seed in the fall. Our winters are such that most winters kill onions. For me it is best to plant sets or small plants in April. Spring planted seed makes nice scallions or small bulbs at end of season.

Onions are cool weather plants and will shut down if the temperature gets too hot. That is why you want to plant early and get them bulbed up before real warm weather. In the South you can plant earlier, so you want short day onions which will bulb up before it gets hot. Further North, you can't plant that early so you need long day onions that bulb up in late May when the days are longer. Yes, onions are day length sensitive and bulb when the days are of a certain length. You need to plant them early enough to get lots of leaves by the time the days are the right length, then the plant will have enough energy to make a nice bulb. Perhaps they do better in soil that leans toward alkaline? I need more info on this, but they do very well here and my soil is rather on the alkaline side. Good soil fertility is also important. A well drained soil and low salt in the water is good also. Salt can curtail growth.

Onions are also biennial in growth habit and will bloom in their second season. That may be why fall planted onions don't bulb, but want to bloom? Small sets spring planted are actually in their second year, but most will bulb and some will bloom. Larger sets are likely to bloom. Perhaps it has something to do with the size of the plant in the spring?

Planting the right varieties for your area will be a big help. DD has given you some good advice. Good luck.

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jal_ut
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If you want to grow your own onion seed, plant a couple of large onions in the spring and they will bloom and make loads of seed for you.

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DoubleDogFarm
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James,

Have you grown storage onions from your own seed or just green onions

What varieties have you been successful with.

I really like Copra and may try saving seed.

Eric

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jal_ut
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Yellow Spanish is the variety I save seed from. I just plant the seed for green onions. They will make small bulbs from seed.

I get one called Big Daddy from the garden store. (plants) They sure make some big onions.

I also grow White Bunching Onions from seed for scallions. These will go all season and never make a bulb.

DoubleDogFarm
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I thought this was very useful information.
I start my seeds now and plant out the 1st week of april not later then 4/15. the larger the tops by mid june the larger the onion. I space them 6" on center in a bed 4' X 12'. maybe how I grow them has an effect or my soil too, who knows. I add bone meal and compost to the bed when I transplant. I mulch with shredded leaves to suppress weeds no later than 7 days after transplanting or weeding is a problem, retain moisture and cool the soil. I fertilize just 3 times spraying nh fish and seaweed. onions require 1" of water per week.

stop water when tops start to tip over and if a lot of rainy days are expected then I gamble leaving them in the ground. if the tops have been pushed over for a few days and a lot of rain is coming I dig them immediately. too much water late in the season causes them to take it up and may effect drying and storage imo.

when 25% of the tops have tipped over I use a bow rake to push the tops down to the ground at the base. I let them sit until the greens die back but not turn brown and dry about 7 days. then I dig and lay them on the ground covering the bulbs as good as I can with the tops. they lie there 7-10 days even if it rains.

then I move them to the barn and I lay them on drying racks. these are wood frames with welded wire fence covered with chicken wire attached to the frame. I have 2 racks. they are about 30" wide and 6' long set on saw horses. I lay the onions on them and try not to touch the bulbs but the greens do over lay bulbs. I leave the door open, it faces east and does not allow direct sun light on the racks. there is 1 window at the roof line on the south side I leave open. air circulation is not great but that's the best I can do. the barn is under trees and is not out in full sun but it is hot in there.

the onions stay on the racks until mid october by then the tops are dry and they are cured. if you cut the top off the bulb and squeeze it at the neck there should not be any moisture, it should be bone dry otherwise they are not fully dried, for me they are always done by mid october. I cut off the tops and trim the roots to about 3/8". I put the copra into a 50 pound net onion bag and the same for the red wing.

then I put them in my basement on a shelf. it is dry down there but easily 70 degrees in mid october. today it is 52-55 degrees and they are on the shelves still, normally I put them in the fridge in the basement by now but I forgot. onions storage best at 37 degrees 40% humidity. sometimes I get one or two to sprout or go bad but these 2 varieties seldom have a problem. mars and alisa craig exhibition did not store as well so I stopped growing them.

I had an excellent harvest last year and have a ton of large onions today, probably only eaten 25% of each variety. the copra will easily last me until august before I can eat them unless I start to give them away. I do think copra start to degrade by 12 months but do store longer. the red wing are good until about may and I need to start eating more of them as they don't keep quite as long but they have excellent storage. hard to beat either of these 2 but they are hybrids, I have no experience with any op onions.

tom
There is also some information on a OP Copra onion called Clear Dawn. I will be trying this one starting late Jan.
https://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.p ... 650&page=2

Eric

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Gary350
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I live in Phoenix Arizona area. I planted my onions and garlic a few days ago. The biggest problem I have is finding onion sets to plant this time of the year.

Winter days are short so I need to grow short day onions.

I planted onion seeds because I can not find sets. There is a guy on ebay selling sets $1 each, I can buy full grown onions at the store cheaper than $1 each.

I planted onions and garlic last year the end of August and they turned out great. My irrigation waters them 30 minutes every day and I fertilize them with 16/16/16 and Nitrogen about every 2 weeks all winter. My plants are 4" apart with full sun all day. Full sun in AZ is no clouds all day long.

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jal_ut
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DD, I like that note you posted. Good info. Thanks.

Gary, I think you will do fine planting seed now. The onions should be of pretty good size by the time the days are of the right length to bulb. That is the key to getting big bulbs, have the plants large by the time the days are the right length for bulbing for the variety.

Have you planted them before at this time? If not plant some now and some in a month and see which does best.

I grow long day here so not sure what the timing is for short day types.

imafan26
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See the link for the map on where to grow short, intermediate and long day onions. Then figure out which type you should be growing. The second link has some helpful hints on growing, watering and fertilizing onions.

https://archive.constantcontact.com/fs06 ... 69219.html
https://www.dixondalefarms.com/category/onion_plants

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rainbowgardener
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Thanks for the link. I didn't even know there were "intermediate day" onions. Looks like I'm in the north part of the intermediate day range. I will still plant some onion seed now-ish as usual, but maybe look into some intermediate day sets in the early spring. My trouble why I have done seeds, is that they usually sell sets in large quantities for a lot of money. I don't have room for large quantities and I don't like to spend a lot of $$. A packet of seeds is very cheap. And the sets don't keep - I can use my $1.50 packet of seeds for several seasons.

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stainlessbrown wrote:Vidalia are commercially grown around here- I'll try them!

Thanks
You may see one of the short day onions grown near you. But if that aint in Vidalia county in Georgia, they aint
Vidalia onions. That name is a low-sulpher place, not a cultivar.

stainlessbrown
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thanks for the info (learned something new!!)

- I've always thought they were one of the ones grown in the Stockton area (they're often in the local stores) .

imafan26
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It is true. I planted vidalia onions and they were not exactly the same. Soil and weather also influence taste. When I first harvested the onions they were very sweet, but after two weeks they got really pungent.

Vidalia onions are vidalia's only when they are grown in that area of Georgia. Just like Maui onions are only Maui onions if they are grown in Kula on Maui. Otherwise the seed from Maui onions are Texas grano. The volcanic soil and elevation makes all the difference in sweetness and mildness

I don't know about where you are, but sets imported by the big box stores are often not the right kind for short day and they are shipped late for us. This is a problem with the big box stores, they order products for all of their stores and do not account for regional differences. They have shipped apple, peach and Japanese maples bare root here. Only low chill fruit trees can grow here and only in the highest elevations. Japanese maples are annuals, they usually do not survive the summer heat.

Seeds are the usual way that I start onions. I grow green onions year round and that is a staple here. There is no snow here, so starting in the fall allows the tops to grow and the onions to be harvested before the summer heat really kicks in around May-June. I have a 12-14 hour day length. Latitude 21.3114 degrees N 157.7964 degrees W. The varieties recommended are texas grano (aka Maui onions), and red granex.

You also said that you lime the soil. Onions like an acidic pH 6.2-6.8. The onions in my alkaline plots are small, but that is because the nitrogen there is relatively low. However, I get great tops and not bulbs in my acidic home garden because it has too much nitrogen. The trick I found with growing onions is to make sure it gets enough nitrogen in the beginning to grow a lot of leaves, but you want to stop nitrogen at the right time to get the onions to bulb up. Onions in acidic soils are sweeter.

stainlessbrown
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good info!

I'm in northern California almost central (Sacramento area). I get very little from the big box stores- relying a local old hardware/nursery (100+ years in business) and one other larger nursery with several locations. I had too many incidences of switched labels from plants purchased at the big boxes... and generally the conditionis poor and there'f few folks working there that know much (I once asked if they had 'garden lime'... after I pause I was sent over to pool supplies....

I also but some things on-line (seed potato and garlic as there's little variety offered locally

And also seeds for shishito peppers, Korean squash, and other less common garden treats

Maybe I'll work some urea into the bed I plan on putting onions in to lower the pH

Ohio Tiller
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I buy my sets from Territorial seed the banner runs at the top on here all the time. and I ended up filling a wheel barrel full of these so far and I have about half that many yet to pick. I was guilty for years of planting onions to deep and getting small onions. last couple years I have just stuck them in the ground with the end of my finger and they have been giants.

This is a sample of what I got this year. I got these a bit early they came up with the weed I pulled next to them.

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DoubleDogFarm
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I received my order of Clear Dawn onion seed yesterday. That was very fast service. :D Little spendy. $6.25 for 1200 seed and $3.00 shipping. If they are anything like Copra, IMO well worth it.

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Eric

imafan26
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You are lucky to have a lot of nurseries to choose from. Except for plant nurseries, they are very few stand alone nurseries left that sell all the garden equipment, fertilizer and seed. A couple of the locally owned nurseries that sold plants that were locally grown closed because the owners were very old and there was no one trained to take over the business. There are three places that sell wholesale and retail fertilizers, and pesticides and amendments but they have one store each. There is only one family owned nursery and one local family owned seed supplier. So, most of the time people have to go to the box stores or order online.

Ordering anything online from Hawaii can be challenging. Seeds are o.k., unless I get them from Park Seeds. I have to have a pretty large order to make it worth while since they charge and extra $20 on every order to Hawaii. Most places will not ship live plants to Hawaii. I used to be able to get asparagus crowns from Guerney and they won't ship it now. I can get seeds of Mary Washington Asparagus locally.

Many places will not ship outside of the contiguous 48 states. I cannot get garlic or onion sets even if I wanted to. I even had to pay an extra $5 for soil removal on bare root roses. The big box companies do bring in some potted plants, but most plants that are potted in soil are not allowed in or out of the state.

Thankfully, the garlic in the grocery stores are the right ones as long as I can find ones that have not been treated. Chinatown is a good place to find some of the Asian vegetables to start like ginger, Thai ginger, and some of the Asian vegetables can be grown from cuttings or seeds from the fruits. And there are a couple of local seed companies that only carry varieties of seeds that are known to do well here.

The big box stores are the only ones that bring in sets, and plants, but only some of them will actually grow here. Most of the onion sets will not.

Ordering seeds does not guarantee that mistakes don't happen. I ordered a rose from Jackson and Perkins and they forgot to send the order to ship it, so I called and got the rose and an unexpected Amaryllis as well. I have ordered seeds and they turned out not be what the package stated and the company sent another set of seeds. The best thing about ordering is that they do guarantee their products, so if they send the wrong seeds or the wrong plant or even if it fails to grow within a specified time, they replace it.

Home Depot and Lowe's also guarantee their products, but home depot finally got smart, they will only guarantee perennials now. Some people kept buying annuals and using them for display and then brought back after they were dead for a full refund.

I have to be careful either at the box stores or online, because not all cultivars of anything is suitable for the tropics. Most of the corn varieties from the mainland will only do well in summer and only if they have maize mosaic virus and rust resistance. We can only grow low chill and day neutral fruits and most plants zone 8 and below will not grow unless it is in a microclimate like Kula and Haleakala on Maui.

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rainbowgardener
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I don't live on an island, unless you count the inner city heat island. But all the nurseries have abandoned us in the city and moved well out in the suburbs. There's now nothing but big box within at least a half hour drive from me. So I do mostly order on line, which works for me.

mattie g
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rainbowgardener wrote:Thanks for the link. I didn't even know there were "intermediate day" onions. Looks like I'm in the north part of the intermediate day range. I will still plant some onion seed now-ish as usual, but maybe look into some intermediate day sets in the early spring. My trouble why I have done seeds, is that they usually sell sets in large quantities for a lot of money. I don't have room for large quantities and I don't like to spend a lot of $$. A packet of seeds is very cheap. And the sets don't keep - I can use my $1.50 packet of seeds for several seasons.
I planted SuperStar (intermediates) from Dixondale this year, and they did much better than my Copras. I'm near the southern end of the long-day area, and near the north end of the intermediate-day region, so it's a little tricky for me. Though I think if I planted a little earlier, I'd have gotten plenty bigger onions. I hope to plant a couple weeks earlier in March (and fertilize correctly) this coming year. That'll give me a much better feel for where I stand in the grand scheme of (onion) things.

imafan26
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Sometimes you have a microclimate that allows you to grow some onions better than others. Sometimes you just have to experiment to see what works out.

I don't have a lot of space for onions and I only grow a few just enough to last about a month.

My biggest problem is the curing and storage. They are harvested when it is getting warmer. We don't have root cellars here and when they are left out even in the patio, onions that start out sweet end up quite pungent after a couple of weeks. I don't really know how to change that. In May-June, it is humid with the temps in the mid 80's.

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jal_ut
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When I plant seed, I plan to use them as green onions. The best they do if let go for dry is about walnut size. Maybe a few as large as a golfball. Yes, they will store when properly dried.

imafan26
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Actually, I grow green bunching onions for green onions and chives. The green onions (scallions) will live about two seasons and go to seed. the can be started from cut off roots, but I start them from seed.

Ohio Tiller
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Has anybody tried planting the cut off root ends of the onions? I asw someting on line about doing it. I was couriouse to know if it does work or not. May have to try one in a pot inside to see if it takes root.

stainlessbrown
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well, seed and sets are in- Red, yellow and "maui"... I worked the soil with ammonium sulfate, calcium phosphate, chicken manure and mulch..... we'll see what happens.

Thanks everyone for your suggestions.

I'll keep you posted.

most of the fall/winter garden is in the ground with the exception of probably more beets and potatos when the last tomoatos and winter squash come out ( another few weeks I estimate... unless it suddenly turns cold)

lots of lettuce in (multi varieties, bok choi, cauliflower, broccoli, garlic, spuds, kale, collard greens, winter peas, beets, carrots, radishes, leeks, bunching onions, chard)

here's to a good fall/winter!
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one section of the garden. The orange tree is coming out to open up more sun (I'll plant a dwarf grapefruit in the back corner... we don't eat all that many oranges...a nd it attracts roof rats  (ick!!)
one section of the garden. The orange tree is coming out to open up more sun (I'll plant a dwarf grapefruit in the back corner... we don't eat all that many oranges...a nd it attracts roof rats (ick!!)



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