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Chris McN
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Monsanto documentary

Hi All,

Today at my real job (purchasing non-print material for a medium size academic library) I got a request to purchase this video documentary on the horrors of the Monsanto Corp and its bid to take over world crop production. The documentary is entitled LE MONDE SELON MONSANTO [THE WORLD ACCORDING TO MONSANTO] and is directed by Marie-Monique Robin. There are plenty of virals of this documentary across the web, one being here:

https://wideeyecinema.com/?p=105

There is a companion book, but it looks as though it is only available in French so far. (Le monde selon Monsanto :evil: : De la dioxine aux OGM, une multinationale qui vous veut du bien / author: Marie-Monique Robin) and it can also be purchased from www.arteboutique.com, It's supposed to be rich with hitherto unpublished documents and the testimonies of victims, scientists and politicians involved with Monsanto.

I must confess I haven't had a chance to actually view any of the video, but because of the recent postings on the garden forum about Monsanto :twisted: (and Round Up in particular) I thought that it would be of interest to the gardening community. :x

So hopefully, we'll have a real live discussion on this thread...:idea:
an artist in search of a medium...

wingdesigner
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That sounds similar to a documentary I saw on PBS or some obscure cable channel while I was recuperating from surgery a few years ago. I'm pretty sure it was in English, though, as my French is pretty rusty. Or else it was subtitled.
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rootsy
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For all of the benefits that big M has brought to agriculture I believe they are literally Satan...

If you took the time to investigate and learn about this company you'd be appalled by what farmers have to deal with. With technology has come control. Monsanto wants control...

It is very difficult to find a non GMO seed today... and with the big M you only "lease" the technology that is within the seed that you put in the ground... If you so much as think about harvesting your crop, say soybeans, which also contains the patented technology owned by Big M and replanting it... you'll find yourself in a world of hurt...

With the elevated commodity prices over the past 2 years everyone and their brother that has anything to supply to the agricultural community has jacked their prices to the moon to get their greedy little slice of the pie while the getting is good...

So once again... the farmer squeaks along, especially small to mid sized farmers... any potential "significant" profit has evaporated in the wake of outrageous input and fuel prices.

opabinia51
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I think that it is very important that people are educated about comapanies like Monsanto and agricultural exploits in general. Round up may be biodegradable but, studies have shown that it can persist in the environment for up to 10 years after applied. Chemicals such as 2,4 D are incredibly toxic to plants, soil, soil ecology and yes, even to people.
Methyl Bromide is another chemical that is very volatile and very toxic that is applied as an herbicide (I believe).


Anyway, the more people can read on these topics the better informed they will be the hopefully people will choose to do healthy things for themselves and their environments.

I had a sessional at University who did a lot of work in Central and South America where a lot of North America's food crops are grown (and this work is exploited by companies several companies which will remain nameless but, they are not hard to find if you go looking) where workers are not shown much less required to use proper safety precautions while using these nasty chemicals. DDT is still used to this day. I have heard of farmers spraying DDT on there crops while having the product drip onto their backs, when my prof mentioned the toxicity to the farmer, he said: "No, it's not toxic. Look!" and sprayed it into his hand and drank it.

I've personally been on the banana plantations where the workers are in the fieds while these pesticides are sprayed on the banana crops and that is just the start..... These guys live for about 10 years working on the plantation and then they are done.

Wade Davis has described natives using DDT to fish with in Brazil and other countries.

Anyway, my whole point is that we really need to take a hard look at the way we've been living and what we can do to make this world a better place. Should corporations rule the world? We the individual consumer have a lot of power, let's use it.

And in our home gardens, let's be responsible and not use harsh chemicals and work with nature, She will reward for our efforts. I can personally attest to that.

The soil is our friend, nurture her and she will nurture us and our plants.
Feed the soil, not the plants.

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rootsy
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Big M goes a lot deeper than Glyphosate... Round-up is the least of anyone's worries in the agricultural community...

Manipulation of the seed market makes the perceived evils of Round-up look like a pebble next to Mt. Everest.

Unfortunately today's modern farming practices dictate the use of various herbicides and pesticides in order to achieve optimal yield potential from today's commercial crops. Without Glyphosate, 2-4D, Atrazine, triazine, dicamba, callisto, warrior and a plethora of other chemicals on the commercial market non-residual and residual weed control with today's no-till, strip tillage and even conventional tillage would be a nightmare. All of the seed genetics would be a waste and we might as well crawl on back to the 1930's or 40's and fire up our Farmall M's with the 3 bottom trip plows and 2 row hill drop planters... Conventional cultivation in today's soybean and corn production would be a regression back to 1940's technology and with the price of fuel, time requirements and operation costs everyone would pretty much go under, even with $5 corn and $12 beans. With 1800 acres of corn, soybeans and alfalfa in the ground there is absolutely no way I could manage it and make it pencil out on ancient, out-dated, farming practices.

The world demands a lot of product, cheaply. If you cannot produce a lot of product on a given piece of land the input costs will quickly put you out of business... Technology and evolution of operations has allowed us to grow 200+ bushel / acre corn when 50 years ago we'd be jumping for joy if we shelled 75 bushels / acre.

Not saying that there aren't any problems with it that don't need to be resolved, just saying that it is today's reality in the big game.

That being all said, I don't use much in the way of herbicides in the garden as there really is no need, small is manageable. Some Laudis on the sweet corn but it's a very safe chemical and that is about it, not even a spring burn down with the glypho other than a pre-emerg application on the pumpkins. I actually find it relaxing cultivating the sweet corn with the Super A on a summer's evening. The rest of the vegetables get the ole hoe and rototiller treatment. But then again the garden is the only thing to see the plow in the fall and without it the disk and packer would be better off in the scrap yard for as much use as it gets otherwise.

TheLorax
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Big M goes a lot deeper than Glyphosate... Round-up is the least of anyone's worries in the agricultural community...
I would agree.
the more people can read on these topics the better informed they will be the hopefully people will choose to do healthy things for themselves and their environments.
I would agree.

Charlie MV
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Personally I don't have much hope.
Last edited by Charlie MV on Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:10 am, edited 2 times in total.

TheLorax
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We have more power than you can imagine. It's called our dollar.

opabinia51
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We have a tonne of power as consumers. We can:

a) Not purchase products
b) wright letters to companies that have unethical policies and practices
c) Let companies know that we won't purchase their products until they clean up their acts
d) Decide that we are willing to pay more for products when they are made and grown in an ethically centered way
e) Purchase an over packaged product, take all the packaging, wrap it up and mail it back to the company with a letter telling them that until they reduce their packaging content in their products that we will not buy that product.
f) Talk to local politicians about our concerns

Look at Mcdonalds in the 80's when they used all the styrofoam and consumers led a small war against Mcdonalds. Now mcdonalds uses paper products.

So we have a lot of power.
Feed the soil, not the plants.

Charlie MV
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fighting the devils.
Last edited by Charlie MV on Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

TheLorax
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I agree with opabinia51, our money talks when it comes to companies like Monsanto just as it did for McDonalds. How we spend it can make a difference.

opabinia51
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Yes, how we spend our money does make a difference but, it is equally important to tell companies and politicians why we are spending money in a particular way.

And I forgot to put:

g) BUY LOCALLY! Buy locally grown produce and meats. Especially from small farms. And Grow your own.
Feed the soil, not the plants.

TheLorax
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Oh, I'm pretty verbal. I'm pretty good about share with them how I feel and why I won't be purchasing any of their products. I get the artificially generated pat responses but makes no difference to me as I'm well capable of taking my money elsewhere and do. I wouldn't go as far as to waste my money buying a product that is over packaged just to be able to box it up and send it back to them as that in my mind is a sale they don't deserve.

I am trying to grow my own. Not too many vegetables but a few. It's a start.

opabinia51
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And something that I've found with visiting the local farms over the years is that I have developed a sense of community. A lot more community than going to the mall or heaven forbit the local big box store..



Some of the local farmers have even opened their doors up for me after or before hours to let me in to buy stuff. One time I was at my favourite local farm buying produce and wanted to get some frozen berries for a Christmas pie but, didn't have the cash on me.... told them I would come back after some Xmas shopping.... by the time I got back it was 1/2 hour after closing but, Vern was still inside and opened up, gave me my berries and didn't even want the cash right then and there.... I did give it to him but, you get the point.

Another time at Sun Wing farms, I was there late wanting to get a bunch of tomatoes and they ran to the door to let me in, I bought my tomatoes, had little chat with the folks there and was off.

I don't know of any large stores that do that!
Feed the soil, not the plants.

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rootsy
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The problem with Monsanto is that the average consumer buying their $20 bottle of round-up doesn't even amount to a drop in the bucket when you look at what their chemical, seed and technology incomes are from the commercial agriculture sector. There are new technologies being developed every year but RR corn, beans, canola, sugar beets, etc are still king. Going to be very difficult to wean the commercial sector off of it... It is going to take some significant technology or a real change. Syngenta's Liberty and Herculex technologies for corn it is a start... With the RR 2 beans coming out and nothing else on the horizon for the bean sector that isn't going to change much.

Big corporations that rely heavily on the retail sector can be influenced more easily by the masses than those corporations that are knived deeply into the commercial sector.

opabinia51
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Well, I have to disagree with your statement that the average person buying roundup doesn't amount to anything compared to all the stuff with Monsanto. I 100% agree with your comments about Monsanto and all the use of Genetically Modified Seeds and so on.

However, When 30 million Canadians and how ever many hundred million Americans use chemicals like round up it has a very large impact on the environment. This is one of the problems affecting bees in North America. Granted there are many others including climate change and so on. However, I will not make light of the affect that individual consumers and gareners have on our world. Yes, corporations have a very large effect but, so do we as consumers.
Feed the soil, not the plants.

Charlie MV
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my lance is battered
Last edited by Charlie MV on Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

opabinia51
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Yes, lances do get battered but, I think it's important to keep up the good fight.

I am lucky because I have the local businesses right next to me and don't have to drive a long distance to support them. Now, that I have moved closer to town, I have to drive a lot farther to support local farms but, if I'm out in that region (which I just got back from) I always stop in for cheap, locally grown produce. It's not all organic but, at least its local.

I have a wallmart just down the road from me and I admit I sometimes shop there as well but, I much more often walk up the street (another couple of hundred meters) and go to our home grown foodstore. It's much nicer too and it has a better variety of food than ___________.

When I was at Looniversity and sitting on the student government we approved that an organic food assortium be allowed to sell their locally, organic grown produce in the Student Union Building without having to pay the vending fees.... why? Organic, and locally grown. It costs a heck of a lot more but, it tastes 10 000 times better. Even the little eggplant that I bought once was so yummy! And the spelt chocolate chip cookies were so good!

Being as green as possible usually costs a bit more and requires more effort but each little bit that we can do always helps.
Feed the soil, not the plants.

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applestar
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So I spent yesterday looking up stuff about Roundup and Monsanto, and found The World According to Monsanto videos here (There are 4 parts):
https://www.livevideo.com/media/tag/monsanto.aspx
I haven't looked at the other videos in the list yet, but I thought it's a good start.

Also Rodale Press article on Roundup
https://www.rodalepress.com/roundup-weed-killer-more-toxic-originally-believed
roundup weed killer more toxic than originally believed
Lawn Care Chemical's Deadly Secret
Report: A labeling loophole means the world's most common herbicide is even more toxic than originally believed.
By Leah Zerbe

And a reference to a movie Called Food, Inc.
https://www.foodincmovie.com/
[img]https://www.foodincmovie.com/img/site/food-inc_how-much.gif[/img]
In Food, Inc., filmmaker Robert Kenner lifts the veil on our nation's food industry, exposing the highly mechanized underbelly that has been hidden from the American consumer with the consent of our government's regulatory agencies, USDA and FDA.

GeorgiaGirl
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My husband and I watched The World According to Monsanto a month or two ago and were horrified. I'm also reading two equally horrifying books, The Hundred-Year Lie and Fight for your Health: Exposing the FDA's Betrayal of America, both of which explain just how Monsanto has created its evil empire, with the HELP of the FDA (in the U.S. -- parallel agencies in other countries do the same thing). That second book especially is a MUST-READ.

It's sickening and has spurred me in my family's quest to be as self-sufficient as possible... thankfully there is an organic farm near me that gives us more produce than we could possibly eat for only $25 a week. They also have free-range chickens and grass-fed cows, so I'm going to start buying poultry, eggs, milk, and beef there as well. It's more expensive than at the grocery store but SO well worth it.

I honestly don't think the mega-corporations like Monsanto are going to change. I won't get into why, but it's just not gonna happen. So our best bet is, as many have said already, buy local, and become as self-sufficient as feasible.
Unfortunately today's modern farming practices dictate the use of various herbicides and pesticides in order to achieve optimal yield potential from today's commercial crops. Without Glyphosate, 2-4D, Atrazine, triazine, dicamba, callisto, warrior and a plethora of other chemicals on the commercial market non-residual and residual weed control with today's no-till, strip tillage and even conventional tillage would be a nightmare. All of the seed genetics would be a waste and we might as well crawl on back to the 1930's or 40's and fire up our Farmall M's with the 3 bottom trip plows and 2 row hill drop planters... Conventional cultivation in today's soybean and corn production would be a regression back to 1940's technology and with the price of fuel, time requirements and operation costs everyone would pretty much go under, even with $5 corn and $12 beans. With 1800 acres of corn, soybeans and alfalfa in the ground there is absolutely no way I could manage it and make it pencil out on ancient, out-dated, farming practices.

The world demands a lot of product, cheaply. If you cannot produce a lot of product on a given piece of land the input costs will quickly put you out of business... Technology and evolution of operations has allowed us to grow 200+ bushel / acre corn when 50 years ago we'd be jumping for joy if we shelled 75 bushels / acre.
Am I understanding you correctly? you use all those chemicals because you fully believe there's no way you could do otherwise with "ancient, out-dated" (i.e. organic) farming practices? Wow, send me back to the 30's then. I'd rather be dirt-poor and have my health than live a materially rich life and be subjected to all the poisons that assault us in this wonderful modern era.
Julia in Georgia

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Part of the problem is eating habits. Chickens used to be a luxury item and beef was even more of a luxury. The consumption of beef is higher than our bodies require, which not only causes diseases but stresses the environment. This is a fact. Humanity would be better off if beef was priced so high it was only affordable once or twice a month. Humans would be healthy, farmers would make more money raising less cattle, and the environment would be better off.

I've been researching cholesterol levels in food and, well, this is just my own opinion, but it seems like I'm better off going vegetarian for breakfast and lunch and eating a portion of meat at dinner. I respect people who commit to vegetarian diets but I can't see myself going vegetarian because I love food too much. ;)

GeorgiaGirl
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And I was already aware that Monsanto had sued a Canadian farmer because some of their GMO seeds had either blown into his field or been transferred by birds and he lost the suit because the courts ruled that Monsanto owned his entire farm because of a few of their plants that were there.
That is sickening... I want to throw up!!
I was also aware that Monsanto has petitioned the US government because of what they call, "Theft By Bees". The dirty little bees are accused of cross pollinating their GMO plants with others. And according to Monsanto, someone MUST PAY for their losses when bees steal from them!
I thought you were kidding until I did a search on this... WOW.
No one in their right mind would even think of taking bees to court. Who would pay?
Oh, they will sue, all right, but not the bees, obviously. They'll be suing more people like that poor Canadian farmer. And their goal is to wipe out open-pollinated (e.g. heirloom) seeds and sell their sterile hybrids... to prevent people from being able to save and replant their own seeds.

I have been reading about the declining bee populations and was puzzled as to why... now it's all making sense. :(
Julia in Georgia

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