User avatar
Gary350
Super Green Thumb
Posts: 7392
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2009 1:59 pm
Location: TN. 50 years of gardening experience.

People are STUPID

Some people say, those seeds only cost $2 per package. But when I go to order those $2 seeds postage is $5. That makes the total price = $7 for a pack of seeds. Then people want to argue, $7 is not true seeds only cost $2. That is STUPID postage is NOT free.

I have same problem on other forms. Electronic forum people say, those parts are only 68 cents per pack of 50. When I place the order price is 68 cents plus $7 postage = a total of &7.68. Then people tell me, postage price is not part of the cost. That is STUPID if I don't pay $7 for postage the 68 cent parts will never be shipped.

Our camping recliner chairs are broken. Several people on camping forum say, chairs are only $75 each online. After checking several places shipping for 2 chairs is, $130 to $180 depending where we buy them that make total price $280 to $330 total. Then people want to argue about it. NO, the price is only $75 each not $300.

I don't understand WHY some people think, postage, sales tax, handling fees, does not add to the cost of any item they buy? They must have flunked high school math.
Last edited by Gary350 on Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:09 am, edited 3 times in total.

pepperhead212
Super Green Thumb
Posts: 2844
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:52 pm
Location: Woodbury NJ Zone 7a/7b

You just have to go on to the next seller. If all you want is one seed variety, find a place with free shipping, in which case, the price is going to include enough to send it to you. Surprisingly, I have gotten some seeds on ebay, from overseas, for less than $2 a pack, with free shipping!

There are a number of companies I haven't purchased seeds from for many years, due to the high postage, plus the cost of the seeds at those places keeps going up, too! They are more for those with large purchase orders, so they are going to loose a lot with people like us, or all these new gardeners brought about with this pandemic, that don't need a lot, and are just starting out.

User avatar
applestar
Mod
Posts: 30504
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 7:21 pm
Location: Zone 6, NJ (3/M)4/E ~ 10/M(11/B)

Yeah — sometimes, they have special sales — free shipping for minimum X dollars or 10%, 15%, 20% off ... which amounts to the shipping cost. For special occasions, they might have such deals for any amount. It sometimes pays to sign up for those email notices. Some sites have first time buyer specials — though I found out some of these places “remember” you’d signed up or was a customer looooong time ago and won’t give you the sign-up special.....

Some people publish those coupon codes .... And then there’s a site that uses same coupon code for everything, so sometimes, if you plug in the code on a random order, you’ll see it reflected on something you didn’t know was on sale....


...There are sites that give you deals for all kinds of unrelated reasons (I can’t remember which ones right now, but I think there was one that offered $16 off for a grandson’s 16th B-day) ... stuff like that.

User avatar
Gary350
Super Green Thumb
Posts: 7392
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2009 1:59 pm
Location: TN. 50 years of gardening experience.

applestar wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:37 am
Yeah — sometimes, they have special sales — free shipping for minimum X dollars or 10%, 15%, 20% off ... which amounts to the shipping cost. For special occasions, they might have such deals for any amount. It sometimes pays to sign up for those email notices. Some sites have first time buyer specials — though I found out some of these places “remember” you’d signed up or was a customer looooong time ago and won’t give you the sign-up special.....

Some people publish those coupon codes .... And then there’s a site that uses same coupon code for everything, so sometimes, if you plug in the code on a random order, you’ll see it reflected on something you didn’t know was on sale....


...There are sites that give you deals for all kinds of unrelated reasons (I can’t remember which ones right now, but I think there was one that offered $16 off for a grandson’s 16th B-day) ... stuff like that.
Yes I know, but I am talking about people that claim, sale tax, handling fees, postage, does not add to the cost of any items they buy.

Remember school math essay questions, Potatoes $1, Milk $2, Bread $1, beans $1, sales tax 10%, what is the total price? The correct answer is $5.50 but many people claim total is $5.00.

A month later wife found our chairs on a special offer, $55 each free postage. We got 2 chairs for $110 total.

PaulF
Greener Thumb
Posts: 910
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 5:34 pm
Location: Brownville, Ne

Free Shipping?...no, the shipping costs are built into the price many times. When I research purchasing I figure total cost. Buying local may look more expensive but more times than not it end up cheaper. Since we live 30-50 miles from any popular box store I also figure in transportation costs. Am I cheap?...yes; anal?...yes; careful?...also yes. Am I stupid? Good question. Depends on who is asked.

User avatar
Gary350
Super Green Thumb
Posts: 7392
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2009 1:59 pm
Location: TN. 50 years of gardening experience.

PaulF wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:09 am
Free Shipping?...no, the shipping costs are built into the price many times. When I research purchasing I figure total cost. Buying local may look more expensive but more times than not it end up cheaper. Since we live 30-50 miles from any popular box store I also figure in transportation costs. Am I cheap?...yes; anal?...yes; careful?...also yes. Am I stupid? Good question. Depends on who is asked.
Yes you are correct, but that is not the point. If I order $2 seeds with $5 postage total cost is $7. If postage is built in & total price of the same seeds with free postage price is still $7. $7 = $7 no matter how you add it up. Walmart seeds are 99 cents that is $6 less. I don't understand WHY some people think the extra cost of, postage, sale tax, handling fees, do not add to the price of anything they buy. If I buy the 99 cent seeds there will be people that argue the $2 seeds only cost you $1 extra its worth an extra dollar not to drive 1 mile to Walmart.

User avatar
applestar
Mod
Posts: 30504
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 7:21 pm
Location: Zone 6, NJ (3/M)4/E ~ 10/M(11/B)

Haha — you are correct of course, @Gary350. Those people you are talking about just want to kid themselves into saying they “Saved” or it’s OK to buy them. LOL

Vanisle_BC
Greener Thumb
Posts: 1353
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:02 pm
Location: Port Alberni, B.C. Canada, Zone 7 (+?)


Yes I know, but I am talking about people that claim, sale tax, handling fees, postage, does not add to the cost of any items they buy.
Who are they? I don't know any such people.

Vanisle_BC
Greener Thumb
Posts: 1353
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:02 pm
Location: Port Alberni, B.C. Canada, Zone 7 (+?)

I believe the vigor of seed from different suppliers - its source, quality and true age (not date of packaging!) can vary widely and that is why some people prefer to not buy from mass-market seed racks.

User avatar
TomatoNut95
Super Green Thumb
Posts: 2069
Joined: Sun May 26, 2019 11:11 am
Location: Texas Zone 8

Companies and people will do what they can to make money and scrimp and save a penny wherever they can. That's why stuff is cheap made but for a high price.
I didn't understand why I paid 3.95 shipping on my bunny Hop seed order when the seeds came in a regular envelope. Stamps are what 51, 52 cents now? Not 3.95.
Even buying stuff off eBay is getting stupid because people charge and arm and a leg on shipping even on a small item that doesn't weigh much.

And shipping shouldn't be expensive anyway, as slow and sloppy as it is! The Christmas card to my uncle came back to me twice. The mail carriers are such irresponsible youngsters it's retarded!
Last month I purchased a group of 12 cans of garbanzo beans off Amazon. One can was horribly dented. Shipping shouldn't cost so much when people mistreat your purchase during its trip to you.

Vanisle_BC
Greener Thumb
Posts: 1353
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:02 pm
Location: Port Alberni, B.C. Canada, Zone 7 (+?)

It's the much-revered free market at work; people charging as much as they can get away with. Now that Covid has made it difficult or impossible to buy local, many online vendors can jack up their prices - but often misrepresent the price hikes as inflated 'shipping and handling charges.'

Not all are doing that. I've had used books shipped from overseas, by regular mail, for a TOTAL under $10. And at least one online seed supplier offers free shipping to both the US and Canada regardless of order size.

User avatar
applestar
Mod
Posts: 30504
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 7:21 pm
Location: Zone 6, NJ (3/M)4/E ~ 10/M(11/B)

I doubt that the shipping situation will improve anytime soon since UPS and FEDEX are handling the US covid-19 vaccine distribution, and have reportedly off-loaded excess package handling to the already beleaguered USPS ... which probably means regular letter/envelope mail will be impacted, too. USPS needed additional funding, which I believe they are finally getting.

Don’t forget/dismiss, too, that folks who work in the warehouses and distribution centers, as well as drive the trucks and cars and make those deliveries are working/having to work under sometimes less than safe conditions during these outbreaks of covid.

Hopefully, all these smaller business folks in the mail-order businesses are having their packages picked up for delivery rather than having to go to local post offices. I’m hearing in some rural communities, their post offices have had to close temporarily or have even been shut down permanently due to covid Or other unavoidable reasons, forcing the Local residents to travel to a further location.


...a priority mail package I sent on 12/15 took 6 days to reach NY distribution center (2-1/2 hrs by car if I were to drive there) and another week (including Christmas break) to fly out of NY to Japan. It’s moving along more briskly now, but it doesn’t look like it’ll reach destination today.... maybe tomorrow.

...But I’ve mentioned thus before — with international shipping, it sometimes takes Weeks or Months depending on customs and destination. I once sent a package to Switzerland by Fedex for an exorbitant shipping cost, and was told if I had been shipping to eastern Europe or central Africa, it would have cost twice as much and taken twice as long.....

...one more thing — there are a lot of free shipping offers from China and some other Pacific islands and Asian countries that apparently take advantage of some kind of import or shipping or tariff — I can’t remember exactly what — whereby THEIR shipping costs are being covered by US tax dollars.... I really should find the link to the article — a little vague now since I think I read about it more than a year ago? I stopped buying anything Offered with free or ridiculously low shipping that are obviously from those areas, though I can’t control/tell the ones that have distribution warehouses here and are seemingly shipped domestically. This DOES relate to how shipping is never actually "free".

Vanisle_BC
Greener Thumb
Posts: 1353
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:02 pm
Location: Port Alberni, B.C. Canada, Zone 7 (+?)

Apparently the foreign mail subsidy was intended to help developing countries to grow their struggling economies. China was included as such a country at the time, but of course is no longer struggling economically. The whole situation in the US has now been addressed.

An "extraordinary congress" convened by the UPU in October finally addressed the disparity. UPU members voted to allow the U.S. and other countries to set new reimbursement rates beginning in July 2020. Terminal dues could increase anywhere from 125 percent to 600 percent, according to Cathy Roberson of Air Cargo World. Whatever the change, American tax dollars will no longer be used to benefit one group of businesses over another.

https://reason.com/2019/11/11/american- ... rom-china/

Other countries may have made similar subsidies; I haven't checked.

User avatar
applestar
Mod
Posts: 30504
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 7:21 pm
Location: Zone 6, NJ (3/M)4/E ~ 10/M(11/B)

Ah ha! Thanks @Vanisle-BC 🙂

...wondering if I should have bought more stuff back then if it was helping them out... Well, I did accidentally buy a small aquarium accessory that was shipped from Fiji .... it took 3 weeks to get here.

Vanisle_BC
Greener Thumb
Posts: 1353
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:02 pm
Location: Port Alberni, B.C. Canada, Zone 7 (+?)

I'm awaiting a small package (6" hacksaw blades) shipped from UK Dec.6, forecast delivery "Dec 11 to Jan 02", and not yet here. BUT the shipping cost is only 3 UKP - about 4 U$. Actually the price of the blades was 2.95 U$ so the whole cost to me is roughly $8. When I see unreasonable shipping prices, which is often, I look elsewhere.

Vanisle_BC
Greener Thumb
Posts: 1353
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:02 pm
Location: Port Alberni, B.C. Canada, Zone 7 (+?)

applestar wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 4:46 pm
...wondering if I should have bought more stuff back then if it was helping them out...
It can be tough to guess the long term effect of the butterfly's fluttering wing :). We do what we think is best and move on.

User avatar
Gary350
Super Green Thumb
Posts: 7392
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2009 1:59 pm
Location: TN. 50 years of gardening experience.

I have always bought lots of items on ebay because they are so cheap & postage was cheap too. A few years ago postage rates changed 3 times in 18 months. Seeds from china were 99 cents free postage delivery in 1 week but not anymore now it takes a month but seeds are still 99 cents free postage.

I have been looking to buy seeds & potatoes this year from other places. Last night searching for seed potatoes several are $8 for 1 lbs of seed potatoes PLUS $14.99 shipping. NO WAY am I going to pay $23 for 1 lb of potatoes.

I tried to ordered seed catalogs online last night only actually managed to get 1 catalog. Another place wanted me to answer 20 questions, make a user name & password, to much work, before I could get a free catalog so I said no way. Another place wants $5 for a catalog don't need that either. I want to try new things and more variety.

Then I need some replacement electronic parts 99 cents free postage from China but 1 month deliver. I searched Ebay and some places people on electronic forum buy parts from. I complained $1 worth of parts that weigh .2 ounces postage is $7. A white envelope is 1 ounce for about 50 cents, WHY is ,2 ounces $7? I check postage online this item can be mailed for $2.99 in a padded 4"x6" envelope. I am not willing to pay 7 times more for postage than I pay for the $1 parts. About 30 people on the electronic form gang up on me, what is the problem parts only cost $1. I said, problem is $7 postage then they claim $7 is not the cost of the parts your only paying $1 for parts. I tried to explain I am actually paying a total of $8 for parts but they kept saying, no your only paying $1. There were 3 people that took sides with me, total price really is $8. Stupid or what?

I'm not going to look for seed potato tonight I can barely stay awake,

What I need is a industrial stump grinder to grind 21 stumps but no 1 in town has 1. I'm not thinking about that either. Maybe next week.

Today I filled my pickup truck with scrap lumber from the construction site dumpsters. I pulled bent nails for 2 hours. With covid-19 lumber prices I have about about $500 of free lumber. A lot of the lumber was right where it belonged it is worthless. I can burn scrap wood easier than taking back where I got it.

Maybe next week I will look again for seed potatoes at a reasonable price. I just want to try some things I can not buy at the local garden store. I need onion seeds too or onion starts. I will look for starts I can't grow seeds in this tiny house 6 weeks I have no grow lights.
Last edited by Gary350 on Tue Dec 29, 2020 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Vanisle_BC
Greener Thumb
Posts: 1353
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:02 pm
Location: Port Alberni, B.C. Canada, Zone 7 (+?)

Recently shipping of 4 seed packages from M***'s seeds in Los Angeles, by USPS, was $14.99: more than the 12.50 cost of the seeds. Total cost $27.49 US; about $7/pack.

But a 'Happy' seed supplier in Doncaster (England) sent me a packet of seeds priced CAD 2.33, shipped for $2.15 - total cost CAD 4.45 - maybe 3.50 U$.

Shop around!

Vanisle_BC
Greener Thumb
Posts: 1353
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:02 pm
Location: Port Alberni, B.C. Canada, Zone 7 (+?)

Plants can be started under regular fluorescents. That's all I've ever used. You can often buy used 4 ft shop fixtures dirt cheap. If the lamps are shot new replacements are also cheap. I think they're called T8s. The ones I have are many years old but still do just fine. Don't fall for the hype about special-spectrum grow lights; they're not necessary.

pepperhead212
Super Green Thumb
Posts: 2844
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:52 pm
Location: Woodbury NJ Zone 7a/7b

Vanisle_BC wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:43 pm
Recently shipping of 4 seed packages from M***'s seeds in Los Angeles, by USPS, was $14.99: more than the 12.50 cost of the seeds. Total cost $27.49 US; about $7/pack.

But a 'Happy' seed supplier in Doncaster (England) sent me a packet of seeds priced CAD 2.33, shipped for $2.15 - total cost CAD 4.45 - maybe 3.50 U$.

Shop around!
Well put! As I noted before, I have gotten seeds on ebay from overseas - Thailand, Australia, and India - for free shipping! And two things I have gotten from India (actually spices, not seeds) came as registered letters! The cost of those things was less than a registered letter would cost here! I was usually looking for specific, unusual varieties that nobody else had, or maybe it was only one of the places I stopped shopping at for good. When I'd find some thing, I'd check the rest of the supplier's store, to see what else they had - if they'd have any of my usual things I have on my list, I'd order those, too, to help them out, and show my appreciation for not shoving it up my a## with the shipping! Still, the ones here that are only $3.95 or $4.95 flat rate I don't mind, but I still don't order unless I have a fairly large number.

User avatar
Gary350
Super Green Thumb
Posts: 7392
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2009 1:59 pm
Location: TN. 50 years of gardening experience.

pepperhead212 wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 12:23 am
Vanisle_BC wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:43 pm
Recently shipping of 4 seed packages from M***'s seeds in Los Angeles, by USPS, was $14.99: more than the 12.50 cost of the seeds. Total cost $27.49 US; about $7/pack.

But a 'Happy' seed supplier in Doncaster (England) sent me a packet of seeds priced CAD 2.33, shipped for $2.15 - total cost CAD 4.45 - maybe 3.50 U$.

Shop around!
Well put! As I noted before, I have gotten seeds on ebay from overseas - Thailand, Australia, and India - for free shipping! And two things I have gotten from India (actually spices, not seeds) came as registered letters! The cost of those things was less than a registered letter would cost here! I was usually looking for specific, unusual varieties that nobody else had, or maybe it was only one of the places I stopped shopping at for good. When I'd find some thing, I'd check the rest of the supplier's store, to see what else they had - if they'd have any of my usual things I have on my list, I'd order those, too, to help them out, and show my appreciation for not shoving it up my a## with the shipping! Still, the ones here that are only $3.95 or $4.95 flat rate I don't mind, but I still don't order unless I have a fairly large number.
Seeds I get from, China, India, Vietnam, Thailand, are always 100% germination & germinate in a few days. I look for 99¢ prices with free shipping & often get 1000 seeds per pack. If I order be Feb seeds are here by March. I never see potatoes sold in those countries. I will look for onion seeds I can afford to experiment for 99¢. I would like to grow the 3 ft long green beans but I do not want to grow pole beans they are too much work building something for beans to climb on. Here in Tornado alley pole beans will blow over in 70 mph wind. We are having 40 mph wind later today 61° & 70° Friday. 2 years in a row corn plants have blown over I think I should plant corn rows parallel to the south wind. We are taking a 200 mile road trip today to get out of the house, we are driving through mountains & probably stop as several road side over looks & road side picnic tables. This wind will make it hard to keep a paper plate on a picnic table but it will be fun, more better & less worser than staying home every day. Next week I get serious about seeds from China & potatoes from someplace else.

User avatar
applestar
Mod
Posts: 30504
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 7:21 pm
Location: Zone 6, NJ (3/M)4/E ~ 10/M(11/B)

Looking forward to pics 8)

Vanisle_BC
Greener Thumb
Posts: 1353
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:02 pm
Location: Port Alberni, B.C. Canada, Zone 7 (+?)

Vanisle_BC wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:48 pm
I'm awaiting a small package (6" hacksaw blades) shipped from UK Dec.6, forecast delivery "Dec 11 to Jan 02", and not yet here. BUT the shipping cost is only 3 UKP - about 4 U$. Actually the price of the blades was 2.95 U$ so the whole cost to me is roughly $8. When I see unreasonable shipping prices, which is often, I look elsewhere.
Hacksaw blades arrived today, Dec 30. Why did I have to send overseas for them? 1. The blades I have on hand - don't remember where I got them - turned out to be junk; wouldn't even cut wood, let alone metal. 2. Both local and online retailers would sell me a new saw, which I don't need, with ONE blade. None of them carries extra blades. How stupid and customer-scornful is that? Now for $8 I have 10 quality blades from overseas, made by the manufacturer of my saw.

User avatar
Gary350
Super Green Thumb
Posts: 7392
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2009 1:59 pm
Location: TN. 50 years of gardening experience.

Vanisle_BC wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 12:49 pm

Yes I know, but I am talking about people that claim, sale tax, handling fees, postage, does not add to the cost of any items they buy.
Who are they? I don't know any such people.
Haha That is funny Vanisle_BC. Those people are Americans, they flunked math or refuse to believe they have to pay postage.

Onion seeds I bought on Ebay came in the mail today. 200 Spanish onion seeds $2.15 total. 300 walla walls seeds $2.99 total. Both packages were in white color letter envelopes with a 50¢ stamp on each envelope. Same seeds cost $13.95 with postage from a seed catalog I saved $8.81. Public schools should teach real life math problems in High School.

I still need seed catalogs to look for onion starts. Even though I bought seeds I would rather plant starts so I don't have to grow 500 seeds in the house for 6 weeks.

3 lbs of Spanish Onions are $3 at the grocery store 10% sales tax = $3.30 total, that makes onion cost 47¢ each. Soon as I find starts for sale I know if I am wasting my time growing starts I want to plant 200 to make it worth doing.

User avatar
TomatoNut95
Super Green Thumb
Posts: 2069
Joined: Sun May 26, 2019 11:11 am
Location: Texas Zone 8

In all honesty, unless you're growing stuff in bulk, it's probably cheaper to go buy something in the store rather than grow it. Especially for me, because I have to buy soil and fertilize for my plants. And then there's insect stuff.
I really wish I could grow corn, but I don't have the space. If I were to fill all my raised beds with it, I suppose I could do it, but there would go my tomatoes and peppers.

User avatar
Gary350
Super Green Thumb
Posts: 7392
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2009 1:59 pm
Location: TN. 50 years of gardening experience.

TomatoNut95 wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:35 pm
In all honesty, unless you're growing stuff in bulk, it's probably cheaper to go buy something in the store rather than grow it. Especially for me, because I have to buy soil and fertilize for my plants. And then there's insect stuff.
I really wish I could grow corn, but I don't have the space. If I were to fill all my raised beds with it, I suppose I could do it, but there would go my tomatoes and peppers.

If you have a 3 foot square spot in your garden you can grow 36 corn plants & get a good crop. I have done lots of corn experiments in the past 45 years. Plant 6 row of corn, 3 foot long rows, 6 rows side by side, 6" between rows, 6" between seeds. I have done 3'x3' crops several times, 5x5 and 10x10 they all work. When plants make tassels wrap a bed sheet round the plants to hold in the pollen to get best pollination. Plant seeds in 55° day temperatures. I don't think sweet corn is as hardy as field corn, plant a few extra seeds to transplant where seeds don't grow. If TX humidity is too low pollen will not stick to corn silks then you get no pollination. When I lived in AZ only way I got good pollination was to pull several tassels bang them inside a 5 gallon bucket to knock off the pollen then add 1 pint of water then 1/2 teaspoon of dish soap stir well then use empty spray bottle to pollinate corn silks. Corn is an extremely heavy nitrogen feeder you need to use good nitrogen fertilizer several times.

Your right about cost less to buy it at the store. Cabbage is 68¢ each, $2 worth of seeds will buy 3 heads of cabbage. BUT, garden is FUN. Some plants are a challenge and I enjoy the challenge to finally learn the best way to grow each crop. First time I planted sweet potatoes it was easy, every time after that there is nothing to do unless I wanted a record crop 135 lb from 3 plants. Not growing more sweet potatoes we don't eat them. Getting smarter every day. Several crops are no longer fun, challenge is over. This year I am determined to grow bigger better onion & potato crop with several experiments then might never grow them again.

Vanisle_BC
Greener Thumb
Posts: 1353
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:02 pm
Location: Port Alberni, B.C. Canada, Zone 7 (+?)

Hey Gary as an American I guess you can say whatever you like about Americans (at your peril !) As an outsider I'm staying quiet :).

Vanisle_BC
Greener Thumb
Posts: 1353
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:02 pm
Location: Port Alberni, B.C. Canada, Zone 7 (+?)

People can have many reasons for growing crops at home whether or not it saves money. Besides a degree of self sufficiency, or having a small emergency food source, they may want increased nutrition, better flavor, safety from industrial & farm contamination, foods they can't buy anywhere else, support for the 100-mile (or 20-yard) diet, preservation of heirloom strains & diversity; or just the magic of seeing what can grow from a tiny seed.



Return to “What Doesn't Fit Elsewhere”