How will the rising price of Gas and Food effect you?

[BirdLover72]

My Dh and I were talking today about the rising price of gas and food and we stopped at a local nursery where we picked up packets of seeds and soil...I can get wooden crates from work for free.

We are planning on growing as much as we can.I have a dehydrator and bread maker already so I can dehydrate the veggies for soups in the winter and make bread..

But we are going to invest in a pasta machine since we alot of pasta. I have been making a list of farmers in my area where I'm going to check prices of eggs and chicken

The price of gas here is on aveage 3.45 for unleaded.And we want to provide as much as we can on ourself rether then rely on the grocery stores high prices.

We are also looking to invest in some land in Utah and maybe some gold.

What are you planning to do to save money?

Is there anything I should invest in otherwise?

[Grey]

Hi Birdlover - we're doing much the same thing. I'm growing LOTS more edible plants this year and will be doing a lot of canning later. I already bake my own bread (no bread machine here, I like kneading dough too much )

Otherwise, as far as cutting back goes - I'm self-employed and work from home. I walk to my local grocery store and to the organic bakery in town a few times a week (the bakery carries all the veggies I don't grow). She also grinds up about five different kinds of wheat and so I get my flour from her as well. And spices! You've never had bay leaves until you have had fresh, organic ones!

I hang our clothes on a line rather than run the dryer. I do put our jeans and towels in the dryer after for about 10 minutes so they are not so scratchy and stiff (jeans just shouldn't stand up on their own). I also make my own laundry detergent, works out to about a penny per load.

We don't eat out much, and I make a lot of stews because it makes a lot, and freeze half of it for later. My vegan spinach lasagna recipe makes a lot too, and I am continuing to look for recipes that are healthy, make a lot of food, and are cheap to make.

We also heat our home with a woodstove. Much easier on the wallet, as we always know someone with plenty of hardwood they need to get rid of.

And no, we don't live on a farm.

[allenwrench]

My Dh and I were talking today about the rising price of gas and food and we stopped at a local nursery where we picked up packets of seeds and soil...I can get wooden crates from work for free.

We are planning on growing as much as we can.I have a dehydrator and bread maker already so I can dehydrate the veggies for soups in the winter and make bread..

But we are going to invest in a pasta machine since we alot of pasta. I have been making a list of farmers in my area where I'm going to check prices of eggs and chicken

The price of gas here is on aveage 3.45 for unleaded.And we want to provide as much as we can on ourself rether then rely on the grocery stores high prices.

We are also looking to invest in some land in Utah and maybe some gold.

What are you planning to do to save money?

Is there anything I should invest in otherwise?

Absolutely...self sufficiency is a good goal for us all. Peak oil issues completly changed my life...and it has only just begun!

My main interest in the garden is for food production. I like plants and flowers, but don't have the time, energy, space and finances to do it all. So I concentrate on food.

I am growing food because:

Food quality in the store is low.
Food being sold is unhealthy and devoid of nutrition.
Food costs are getting out of sight
Food is or will be scare in the future as we become post carbon society due to peak oil issues.

If I didn't have to fool with growing food I'd be longboarding or riding my dirt bike or kayaking or whatever.

But I've enjoyed getting my hands dirty so to speak since starting gardening Feb '08. And it is relaxing, offers exercise and cuts down on stress.

BTW...I am a transplant from L.A., lived there 35 years and moved in 1989 to the NE US to 'city-country' as opposed to 'city-city'. I had a big shock the first time the electric went off for more than 5 minutes in my new local. That was the day I learned about self sufficiency about 17 years ago.

Bought some candles and a flashlight and went on from there. But that only clued me into 'short term survival' with my preparedness aimed at 4 to 6 weeks.

Then came 'peak oil' ' peak NG' 'peak food' 'peak water' 'overpopulation' and had my eyes opened to long term, indefinite survival.

Here are some books and DVD's for you. Get them from the library. The one highlighted in red is a good book on investment in a post carbon world.

The Alcohol Fuel Handbook / by Lynn Ellen Doxon.
by Doxon, Lynn Ellen

Art of Nothing
An excellent series of DVD's showcasing primitive skills:
http://www.hopspress.com/Videos/Art_of_Nothing.htm

Barnyard In Your Backyard
edited by Gail Damerow

Basic Essentials. Edible Wild Plants & Useful Herbs
by Meuninck, Jim

Beyond Civilization: humanity's next great adventure
by Quinn, Daniel

Beyond Oil: the view from Hubbert's Peak
by Deffeyes, Kenneth S.
http://www.princeton.edu/hubbert/

The Biodiesel Handbook
by Gerhard Knothe

Bowling Alone: the collapse and revival of American community
by Putnam, Robert D.

The Bread Builders:hearth loaves and masonry ovens
by Wing, Daniel

Breathe No Evil
Safe-Tek Publishers

Brown's Second Alcohol Fuel Cookbook.
by Brown, Michael Halsey

Build a Root Cellar & Storm Shelter
by Hobson, Phyllis

Bushcraft
by Mors Kochanski
Great reference on primitive wood skills.

The Can Opener Gourmet
by Karr, Laura

The Citizen-Powered Energy Handbook: community solutions to a global crisis
by Greg Pahl
http://www.chelseagreen.com/2007/items/citizenpowered

Collapse
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collapse_(book

The Coming Economic Collapse - how you can thrive when oil costs $200 a barrel
by Leeb, Stephen

The Complete Book of Dutch Oven Cooking
by Fears, J. Wayne

The Complete Book of Fire: building campfires for warmth, light, cooking, and survival
by Tilton, Buck

The Complete Book of Survival
by Stahlberg, Rainer
An outstanding all encompassing guide to the philosophy of surviving - Highly Recommended.

The Complete Guide to Edible Wild Plants
by Lyle, Katie Letcher

Country Wisdom & Know-how
Numerous authors and publishers...all contain worthwhile information.
http://www.amazon.com/Country-Wisdom-Kn ... 1579123686

Crossing the Rubicon: the decline of the American empire at the end of the age of oil
by Ruppert, Michael C.

A Crude Awakening - the oil crash
Lava Productions AG, Switzerland DVD
http://www.oilcrashmovie.com/

Dancing at Armageddon: Survivalism and Chaos in Modern Times
by Richard G. Mitchell Jr

Edible Wild plants
by Meuninck, James

Edible Wild Plants of Pennsylvania and Neighboring states
by Medve, Richard J.

Edible and Medicinal Plants of the West
Gregory L. Tilford
http://www.amazon.com/Edible-Medicinal- ... 0878423591

Emergency Preparedness. Awareness & Survival
DVD Apogee Communication, 2006 - Highly Recommended.
http://www.apogeevideo.com/emergency/emergency.htm

The End of Suburbia - oil depletion and the collapse of the American dream
by Greene, Gregory DVD
Don't miss the commentary. Lots of Canadian prejudice against the US as well as snobbery, but very worthwhile behind the scene info.
http://www.endofsuburbia.com/

Farming for Self-sufficiency
by John and Sally Seymour

Field Guide to Edible Wild Plants of Eastern and Central North America
by Peterson, Lee.

First Aid for Dogs.
Various authors under related titles...First Aid for Cats...Horses...Pets....even Insects!

Four-Season Harvest:organic vegetables from your home garden all year long.
by Eliot Coleman

Going Local: creating self-reliant communities in a global age
by Shuman, Michael

Grit Magazine
http://www.grit.com/

Guns and Ammo Magazine

High Noon for Natural Gas: the new energy crisis
by Darley, Julian
http://www.highnoon.ws/

House on a Budget:making smart choices to build the home you want.
by Duo Dickinson

How to Dry Foods
by DeLong, Deanna.

Life after doomsday
by Bruce D. Clayton

The Long Emergency: surviving the converging catastrophes of the twenty-first century
by Kunstler, James Howard

Magic of Wheat Cookery
by Tyler, Lorraine Dilworth

Making Your Own Motor Fuel
by Fred Stetson

Master list of survival books:
http://www.survivalcenter.com/bookbs.html

Mother Earth Magazine
Al back issues available on CD ROM for nominal cost from:
http://www.motherearthnews.com/

Natural Home Heating: the complete guide to renewable energy options
by Pahl, Greg

Nutrition and well-being A to Z
Delores C.S. James editor

Oil Apocalypse
History channel DVD

The Oil Depletion Protocol : a plan to avert oil wars, terrorism and economic collapse
by Heinberg, Richard

The Omnivore's Dilemma
www.michaelpollan.com/omnivore.php

Pantry Cooking : quick and easy food storage recipes
by Robins, Laura

PDR for Herbal Medicines
by Medical Economics

Peak Oil Survival: preparation for life after gridcrash
by McBay, Aric

Powerdown: options and actions for a post-carbon world
by Heinberg, Richard

Primitive Living, Self-sufficiency, and Survival Skills : a field guide to primitive living skills
by Elpel, Thomas J.

The Renewable Energy Handbook:a guide to rural independence, off-grid and sustainable living
by William H. Kemp

Resource Wars: the new landscape of global conflict
by Klare, Michael T
http://www.amazon.com/Resource-Wars-Lan ... 0805055762

Root Cellaring : the simple no-processing way to store fruits and vegetables
by Bubel, Nancy./Bubel, Mike

Seed to Seed: seed saving techniques for the vegetable gardener
by Ashworth, Suzanne

Shelters, Shacks, and shanties: the classic guide to building wilderness shelters
by Beard, Daniel Carter

A Thousand Barrels a Second: the coming oil break point and the challenges facing an energy dependent world
by Tertzakian, Peter

Twilight in the Desert: the coming Saudi oil shock and the world economy
by Simmons, Matthew R.
Well written book examining 12 of the key Saudi oil fields.

U.S. Army combat skills handbook / Department of the Army.
Lyon's Press

Who Killed the Electric Car?
Sony Pictures Classics release
http://www.sonyclassics.com/whokilledtheelectriccar/

Zips, Pipes, And Pens: Arsenal Of Improvised Weapons
by J. David Truby

Zoom:the global race to fuel the car of the future
by Iain Carson and Vijay V. Vaitheeswaran.

[allenwrench]

We also heat our home with a woodstove. Much easier on the wallet, as we always know someone with plenty of hardwood they need to get rid of.

And no, we don't live on a farm.

How many of our homes are set up for efficient heating with natural methods such as wood, pellet, passive solar?

My house is not.

I never gave this subject any thought until I learned about peak natural gas. And by then it was too late.

My house is as far as it can be from the 'ideal house' that can be heated my natural methods. And to make maters worse, I live in the NE US, where it gets plenty cold.

Do you know that much of your life is dependent on natural gas outside its use as an energy source?

We will run out of natural gas, just as we deplete our crude supplies in the near future.

http://www.amazon.com/High-Noon-Natural ... 1931498539

Natural gas is a raw material in many of our products we depend on.

Almost all the helium we produce comes from natural gas.

Propane, synthetic fertilizers, ammonia?

They are totally dependent on natural gas.

Our population boom was fueled by synthetic fertilizers made from natural; gas. Once the gas dries up so does the fertilizer and a shortage of fertilizer equals a shortage of food.

Natural; gas is also used as an energy source to produce steel, glass, paper, clothing, brick, electricity

http://www.enotes.com/how-products-ency ... atural-gas

http://www.ipm.iastate.edu/ipm/icm/2003 ... tgasn.html

http://www.eia.doe.gov/kids/energyfacts ... TISUSEDFOR

You still have some valuable time left to prepare for what awaits you down the road.

We are in the 'Indian Summer' of a carbon based world. Don't wait until the winter sets in to start work on your preparedness efforts.

[native]

We mow for a living so the gas prices are affecting us. Our food bill is high so we choose which organic produce we buy from week to week. I'm not a great cook so making bread seems alien to me. The prices at the farmers market are sometimes higher at the store. Florida oranges are high. We are in a drought so watering is limited. I think people will start getting into gardening more. It's allot of work and the bugs , the water shortage, so they give up. Gave plants to a friend and made him plant in pots after he gave up.
Hope we see in our lifetime cheaper energy sources. solar panels are coming along. I like the spiral windmills they have for city buildings. Also like the compressed air for cars.[weater channel]Our children will see alternative enery sources. my! i did not mean to be depressing.

[native]

I do have a dehydrator to and love it

[imagardener2]

We will run out of natural gas, just as we deplete our crude supplies in the near future.

That a nice story for the oil companies to tell to jack up fuel prices, but it isn't necessarily the truth.

I have 2 sons and they both work in the oil industry. One is a directional driller, the other installed safety systems on completed oil wells until he became a company man. Chances are none of those positions mean anything to anyone here, but to those in the know it means both my boys have access to oil & gas info that the general public doesn't. They both tell me there's huge amounts of oil under Texas and in the Gulf. Back in the early 2000's my youngest (the driller) told me they had found a historically massive find running from around Del Rio, TX, across Texas to Louisiana, down to Mexico and all under the Gulf. But you didn't hear about it in the news. Why? So the oil companies could start their 'reign of terror' on the American public.

Which started, BTW, just shortly after they made the find.

[alisios]

The federal government and local electric companies are offering incentives by way of rebates, tax deductions, etc to those who are going solar. -

My water heater was showing signs of failure, so I have recently went to a solar panel for heating water. It cost more at first, but with all the bonuses offered through programs, I was able to get a system that cost me a little less than a new conventional gas water heater...

I hope this thread doesn't get political, as I don't think the forum should be a place to discuss things of that nature...

I do believe it's time to be more self sufficient - I guess it's always been a good time for this..

I've also been looking into a small solar panel for electric power to use in the greenhouse too -

[alisios]

btw, there is no legal definition of what is "green" so basically companies can call their products "green", but it doesn't mean it is green

[Grey]

A lack of synthetic fertilizers does not mean there will be less food.

You can grow super nice, super yummy, very good quantity veggies the old fashioned way: organically. If you routinely test your soil, keep adding in that good organic matter and make sure that ALL the nutrient needs are met (not just the NPKs that the synthetics cover) your plants will be much, much healthier than they would be on synthetics.

The reason being good soil promotes beneficial bacteria and microorganisms, and the rounded-out nutrition helps the plant ward off diseases and grow fast enough that some insect damage is not the end of the world.

There are, if I recall, seven micronutrients that are important as well as those three macros.

[Grey]

btw, there is no legal definition of what is "green" so basically companies can call their products "green", but it doesn't mean it is green

Unfortunate but true.

My favorite example of this are those hideous CFL bulbs they want us to use. How many people are REALLY going to dispose of them as the toxic waste they are since they contain mercury? Not many.

And, what cost are they to our health? I have one such bulb from my electric company. I hate the kind of light it puts out, it flickers (bad bad for people with migraines) and it makes a high-pitched noise. I sandwiched it between two incandescents in my bathroom vanity light, but the sound drives me nuts.

May I add that Edison's ORIGINAL LIGHTBULB is STILL WORKING at a museum in St. Petersburg, FL?

These CFLs still have what we in marketing call planned obsolescence. Just like your computer, your cell phone that craps out every year, and the style of shoe you have to wear at work to be "stylish."

Meanwhile, we are being told that they will phase out incandescent bulbs and only offer these CFLs. When that happens? I'm using candles and hurricane lamps. And those flashlights that you have to shake to charge.

Another great example of planned obsolescence: my dad has one of the few vehicles from the 1960s with brakes that have never, ever worn down. There is a limited number of those that went out... we don't have to be toxic to ourselves and the environment by replacing brakes every year or so... it just makes more money for corporations.

[alisios]

..and what about all those flat screen TVs people will have to "upgrade" (toss) to digital HD?

My favorite example of this are those hideous CFL bulbs they want us to use. How many people are REALLY going to dispose of them as the toxic waste they are since they contain mercury? Not many.

Funny you should say this - I was checking out some CFLs and noticed "mercury" warnings on the label just recently... I asked my father, there's mercury in there??

sheesh...

[wind_dial]

I think there is alot more that everyone can do and more we don't even realize we can do to save energy and cut down and waste of all kinds. I think that people, especially Americans are way too spoiled now a days. People complain because they cant afford luxuries of life and think its the end of the world. People arent conciensous about their actions. I'm not saying all but alot, alot more than earlier in this century alone. I love to watch movies depicting life in the 1800's and early 1900's and in a way would like to go back to those times. I know we have things today that our minds would not allow us to live without but if you lived back then you wouldnt know the difference and when you never experienced air conditioning the heat really wouldnt bother you as bad as it does now, you would be adapted to it. Before the invention of tight homes, air conditioning and high sanitization allergies were practiclly unheard of. Back to my point though of conservation. I am queen at making a meal go a long way. That may not be signifigant, its just one thing that combined by everyone can go alot furthure. That stew someone likes to make earlier in the post, I would take that my self and put it in a baking dish, top with biscuits or mashed potatoes or even stuffing for a pot or shepards pie. I turn left over chicken soup into chicken and rice. I love to make chilli tacos out of left over chilli too. I reuse jelly jars as drinking glasses and yes I save butter bowls for storage containers. I try to find a second use for as many things as I can. People now a days think everything has to be new and shiny to work, if its not eye catching it just wont do. I do not have a regular television, no channels of any kind. I do have a TV but have every season of Little House On The Prarie, the Waltons. The gas prices are crazy and I personally think there shouldnt be a summer driving season as it gives them an excuse to raise it, but it also raises demand. People 100 years ago didnt HAVE to go see the grand canyon. Many never left the county they were born and raised in. Its fun to go on vacation every once in a while but modern people think they have to go on one every weekend or month and they wonder why their is such a demand for oil. What is wrong with spending quality time home sweet home. Also I just thought of something else, if you grow your own veggies, that means a gas hog truck didnt have to truck it from the farm and across the country, one trip to town for seeds and your set for the summer. Even if you cant have a veggie garden, if more people gardened everywhere there would be more available locally and I know if its anything like around here your neighbors usually give you way more tomatoes and cucumbers than you would want to eat in a life time so there is usually plenty to go around. I think the oil crunch in a way is making some people think about the choices they make and teaching them how to conserve which what they should have doing all along. Sometimes what people need is wake up call and it looks like oil is whats making that call wether we like it or not. Its a blessing and a burden. Many of the people that lived through the depression are still alive and you see the good habits they developed during that era and there is alot to be learned from them before they are gone. Making a meal run for two or three nights might not be easy to relate to conservation of gas and even to gardening in a signifigant way but no one thing really does, its a combination of lots of small things that make a big impact.

[Grey]

It is a blessing and a burden (the higher oil costs).

Since this thread is turning a little negative (guilty as charged) let's bring it back to the positive and ask: what are you doing to cut energy costs?

I'll start the ball rolling:

I hang my clothes on a line. I wash them in cold water, and I make my own detergent out of things that are less harmful to the environment (and myself).

I walk to the grocery store, and I carry my own cloth bags along. If I just need a couple of things, I don't even need a bag if I forgot one.

I turn off and unplug appliances throughout the house that are not in use. Our TV stays unplugged most of the time, sometimes I just turn off the breaker for the whole stereo system/cable receiver/etc. Even your cell phone charger eats power while plugged in. Computers are shut down at night, including the surge protector.

I usually only have one or two lights on in the house at night. People should be winding down in the evening anyway, it helps us sleep better.

Like most people here - I grow lots of veggies.

I never buy tupperware. I keep the glass bottles that are empty from the store, and save things in those. Since I also dabble in herbal medicine, I found those amber vanilla bottles work out very well for tinctures.

I save water. Until I get a better system in place, the rain that falls from my metal roof drops neatly into several 5 gallon buckets and a few big garbage cans. I use that water for my plants. When I wash dishes, I use the dishwater on my plants as well. During the drought, I kept a large container in the shower with me - even a fast shower seems to leave 3-5 gallons of water in the bucket. I didn't have enough water between the sink and the shower to keep everything really happy, but I didn't lose many plants last year, either.

I'm sure there's lots more I can be doing. What do you do, or intend to do?

[alisios]

Well - first off, I made a rain barrel:



This cost me under 10 dollars. I have added a second 55 gallon next to it since this picture was taken. I found a great place that has a ton of empty barrels they throw away (food grade) - I just cleaned them spray painted them the color of the house...

Begun a compost pile

Planting Native trees and shrubs in yard

Solar hot water installed instead of gas boiler

Bought and use those reusable grocery bags ( they hold a lot more too)

Feed the birds

I am looking into an electric bike now to go on errands near my house... my mother bought one of these and it's nice! 20mph top speed and around 30-40 mile range:

http://www.iloveebikes.com/ebike098.html