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PicoAzores
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Plant Hardiness Zones for Islands
Sadly, I could not find a suitable forum to discuss this issue. Why aren't there any maps for small remote islands such as Bermuda, Azores, Madeira, Canary Islands, St. Helena, Pitcairn, Pacific Ocean, Mauritius, Reunion, Galapagos, Greenland, Fiji, Maldives, Bahamas, Socotra etc.? That is quite selfish and ignorant of those who make such incomplete plant hardiness maps. There are people living there as well.
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thanrose
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- Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:01 am
- Location: Jacksonville, FLZone 9A
I asked a friend who lived in Hawaii many decades ago about the US interstate highway system, and if Hawaii had such a highway. She said after thinking about it that there was a federal highway on the big island, but if there was a number assigned to it she wasn't aware of it. She added, "And until they build a bridge to San Diego it really can't be an interstate highway."
Good point.
First, the USDA plant hardiness zones have been around since last mid century. The first two initials are pertinent. It wasn't something that easily applied to other parts of the world and US agriculture was not primarily concerned with other countries that were not contiguous. So Canada could extrapolate, and northern Mexico, but not Cuba.
Then Californians objected to the limitations of the USDA plant hardiness zones and added the Sunset zones. Again, specific to their needs, but Sunset addresses a bit more in terms of rainfall and probably other stuff. Some of it is applicable to other parts of the States, Canada, and Mexico, and with a bit of massage their zones could be applied to other parts of the world, perhaps places in Australia, and Mediterranean countries.
There are likely to be relevant statistics on all the places you've named. They could be used to plan agricultural zones, but someone would have to do the work. Maybe university types would consider it, but generally agribusiness giants do not care at all. So who is going to pay for it?
I can tell you right now that most of habitable Greenland is maybe zone 1-2 on the USDA hardiness map, but the bulk of the land mass is glacial. And Inuit subsistence hunter gatherers there really don't care what zone you want to call it; they just care if they can get enough seal meat for the long winter.
Especially with the smaller land masses, having a zone # is irrelevant. Tropical is tropical. Latitude and altitude are likely to be more important and presumably people who live there already know that.
Let's say the Azores are roughly Zone 10 on the USDA. No snow ever, slightly cooler winter months but not a significant difference. However you have ocean currents that would affect your climate more than they would most of the US' Zone 10. Lower Florida, lower Texas, and higher elevation Hawaii are Zone 10. Florida Keys and some of Hawaii are Zone 11. Lots of Caribbean islands are principally Zone 11. Again, because of proximity to the US where the original Zone designations were created to suit Agribusiness. Does Monsanto care if you can grow daffodils? Not at all, but they do want to know suitable climates for growing the crops their subsidiaries need.
It's an interesting question. The zones are limited in scope by design. Maybe it's subject for a dissertation somewhere.
Good point.
First, the USDA plant hardiness zones have been around since last mid century. The first two initials are pertinent. It wasn't something that easily applied to other parts of the world and US agriculture was not primarily concerned with other countries that were not contiguous. So Canada could extrapolate, and northern Mexico, but not Cuba.
Then Californians objected to the limitations of the USDA plant hardiness zones and added the Sunset zones. Again, specific to their needs, but Sunset addresses a bit more in terms of rainfall and probably other stuff. Some of it is applicable to other parts of the States, Canada, and Mexico, and with a bit of massage their zones could be applied to other parts of the world, perhaps places in Australia, and Mediterranean countries.
There are likely to be relevant statistics on all the places you've named. They could be used to plan agricultural zones, but someone would have to do the work. Maybe university types would consider it, but generally agribusiness giants do not care at all. So who is going to pay for it?
I can tell you right now that most of habitable Greenland is maybe zone 1-2 on the USDA hardiness map, but the bulk of the land mass is glacial. And Inuit subsistence hunter gatherers there really don't care what zone you want to call it; they just care if they can get enough seal meat for the long winter.
Especially with the smaller land masses, having a zone # is irrelevant. Tropical is tropical. Latitude and altitude are likely to be more important and presumably people who live there already know that.
Let's say the Azores are roughly Zone 10 on the USDA. No snow ever, slightly cooler winter months but not a significant difference. However you have ocean currents that would affect your climate more than they would most of the US' Zone 10. Lower Florida, lower Texas, and higher elevation Hawaii are Zone 10. Florida Keys and some of Hawaii are Zone 11. Lots of Caribbean islands are principally Zone 11. Again, because of proximity to the US where the original Zone designations were created to suit Agribusiness. Does Monsanto care if you can grow daffodils? Not at all, but they do want to know suitable climates for growing the crops their subsidiaries need.
It's an interesting question. The zones are limited in scope by design. Maybe it's subject for a dissertation somewhere.
The extremes of winter cold: Probably your weather service or agricultural ministry has that information.
The USDA hardiness zones leave out lots of variables. Most importantly, growing season conditions are not considered.
For purposes of commerce, the zones have to do with the winter hardiness of perennial plants.
Steve
The USDA hardiness zones leave out lots of variables. Most importantly, growing season conditions are not considered.
For purposes of commerce, the zones have to do with the winter hardiness of perennial plants.
Steve
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PicoAzores
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Thank you for your responses. It was an interesting read. In fact Azores are Zone 11B as I have never experienced anything below +7,7C and my elevation is 150 m above sea level about a mile and a half away from the ocean. I have been recording low and high and all kinds of temps for 3 years now. That does not mean it can not get below +7C but people say it got to +6C some time in the past and that's it. Especially by the water in the lowest elevations it is +10-12C and above. I would call that Zone 12A. So Azores within first 500 m of elevation must be zone 11 or rather 11B to 12A. That makes it tropical or subtropical, but not necessarily super tropical since summer temperatures do not go above +30C in the towns near water and not over +29C where I am and usually it is +9C to +27C year round, including winter nights and summer days. Very stable climate. Quite humid, but very comfortable. I like the +18C to +20C range best, but for working outdoors the 12-18C are most comfortable.
10C = 50F
12C = 54F
16C = 60F
18C = 64F
20C = 68F
25C = 77F
27C = 80F
10C = 50F
12C = 54F
16C = 60F
18C = 64F
20C = 68F
25C = 77F
27C = 80F
The Azores islands are affected by the marine climate moderates the temperatures keeping it more temperate and sub tropical. You have hydrangeas, palms, pineapple, and plumeria. It is a lot like Hawaii on the other side of the world in another ocean. The Portuguese migrated to Hawaii many from the Azores. In Hawaii the climate can range from sub alpine zones on top of Haleakala and Mauna Kea where at 10,000 ft it even snows and there is a commercial lavender farm on Maui on the way to the top of Haleakala. Protea will grow in the higher elevations of the Big Island. Pineapple and sugar plantations used to cover the islands from sea level to 1200 ft. Most of the plants you would see to day are not native.
Like the Azores, many plants were brought in from different parts of the world, Africa, Asia, the Americas. They grow so well here some people think that they have always been here. In a near frost free climate you have a long growing season you have a lot of plants that I recognize as common garden plants here.
It means for me,since I don't live where it snows, that I have a 365 gardening year, but plants that need to have a winter don't do well. Glads grow wild in my yard. They come up by themselves year after year and I only have to divide amaryllis and agapanthus to keep them blooming. However, I can grow Dahlias from seed, but once they go down the tubers will never rise again without a winter so I treat them as an annual. I can grow asparagus even though it is a colder zone plant, it does fine as long as it gets enough summer water. I cannot grow very many plants that are not "tender" Most zone 8 and lower plants don't grow well for me. A Japanese maple in this climate is an annual. A pine tree will grow but it isn't really as big or as happy as it could be in colder climates. Most of the trees that turn color in the Spring or Fall are non natives. Tropical trees do drop a few leaves, but most are not deciduous. We do get some tall trees but most of the natives are long lived (normally) and take years to become giants. Most of the disturbed lands now are infiltrated with invasive species and Albezia are more common than ohia. it is a beautiful tree, but very dangerous, it grows fast and brittle and can be deadly when it falls. Many of the trees that were planted along the highways because of their fast growth had to be cut down because of the danger of the widow makers dropping.
The USDA map and even the Farmer's Almanac really do not have a lot of information on the tropic zones. They are more concerned with growing seasons and frost dates which don' t have that much meaning in a frost free zone. The vegetables on the list don't include a lot of things that are kind of seasonal (dependent on day length and temperature, rather than on frost dates) are not included on the plant list. Florida comes the closest to our climate zones and they do have information on growing things in warmer zones. I guess we have to find other sources for warmer zones because our plants are also different.
The most relevant information I could get was from the Caribbean.
Instead of cool and warm season what we need is a guide to plants that come into full bloom at different times of the year like
Mango season
Avocado season
plumeria season
honohono (dendrobium anosmum) season
More of our plants are short or long lived perennials and we recognize the seasons by their bloom and fruiting times
Some things like zingiber, turmeric, caladiums, gladiolus, and arrowroot die back every year, but the rhizomes come back again.
Other plants like nasturtiums will drop seeds and they sprout when they are ready.
Like the Azores, many plants were brought in from different parts of the world, Africa, Asia, the Americas. They grow so well here some people think that they have always been here. In a near frost free climate you have a long growing season you have a lot of plants that I recognize as common garden plants here.
It means for me,since I don't live where it snows, that I have a 365 gardening year, but plants that need to have a winter don't do well. Glads grow wild in my yard. They come up by themselves year after year and I only have to divide amaryllis and agapanthus to keep them blooming. However, I can grow Dahlias from seed, but once they go down the tubers will never rise again without a winter so I treat them as an annual. I can grow asparagus even though it is a colder zone plant, it does fine as long as it gets enough summer water. I cannot grow very many plants that are not "tender" Most zone 8 and lower plants don't grow well for me. A Japanese maple in this climate is an annual. A pine tree will grow but it isn't really as big or as happy as it could be in colder climates. Most of the trees that turn color in the Spring or Fall are non natives. Tropical trees do drop a few leaves, but most are not deciduous. We do get some tall trees but most of the natives are long lived (normally) and take years to become giants. Most of the disturbed lands now are infiltrated with invasive species and Albezia are more common than ohia. it is a beautiful tree, but very dangerous, it grows fast and brittle and can be deadly when it falls. Many of the trees that were planted along the highways because of their fast growth had to be cut down because of the danger of the widow makers dropping.
The USDA map and even the Farmer's Almanac really do not have a lot of information on the tropic zones. They are more concerned with growing seasons and frost dates which don' t have that much meaning in a frost free zone. The vegetables on the list don't include a lot of things that are kind of seasonal (dependent on day length and temperature, rather than on frost dates) are not included on the plant list. Florida comes the closest to our climate zones and they do have information on growing things in warmer zones. I guess we have to find other sources for warmer zones because our plants are also different.
The most relevant information I could get was from the Caribbean.
Instead of cool and warm season what we need is a guide to plants that come into full bloom at different times of the year like
Mango season
Avocado season
plumeria season
honohono (dendrobium anosmum) season
More of our plants are short or long lived perennials and we recognize the seasons by their bloom and fruiting times
Some things like zingiber, turmeric, caladiums, gladiolus, and arrowroot die back every year, but the rhizomes come back again.
Other plants like nasturtiums will drop seeds and they sprout when they are ready.