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backyardfarmer
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Any Master Gardeners?

I was thinking of becoming a Master Gardener at the local university. I know they have programs like this all around the nation. Has anyone participated in anything like this and if so, how was your experience? Do you now feel like a MASTER gardener?

Gardenmom
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I would love to do the same. I know that here in California, they require so many hours of class time, then 80 hours of on-site volunteer work. Right now with 2 teenagers and my work schedule, it's not possible. I wish I could get certification on-line.

opabinia51
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They offer an Organic Master Gardeners course through Gaia College in my city. When time and money permits, I will take it. I don't want to take the master gardeners course though (offered at the Horticultural center) because the preach using the -Cides and all that junk.

MaineDesigner
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I have a rather dim view of Master Gardener programs. Although the concept is well intentioned the nomenclature was very poorly considered. Forty hours of classroom training (the requirement here in Maine) plus another forty hours of annual volunteer time does not make anyone a master gardener. It makes you an apprentice gardener. I know of a number of nurserymen (and women), landscape designers and professional gardeners (most with Bachelor or Associate degrees and a few with Masters degrees in horticulture, botany, or other related fields and years if not decades, of experience) who have horror stories about their encounters with "Master Gardeners".

Gardenmom
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What do you mean horror stories? Do they have different views or methods that you don't agree with?

I have several friends who want my help or advice with their garden spaces, and I feel that if I were ever to pursue that area and make a business out of it that I would have to have some sort of credential to back me up.

I do know one master gardener at my favorite nursery, and from what I can tell, it's no easy task to acquire certification. That's why I wish it could be accomplished with an on-line course - I've already put in hours at a local nursery...won't be doing that again.

MaineDesigner
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I think the Master Gardener program can be a useful marketing device for people wanting to start gardening businesses.
The problem is that forty or even eighty hours of class time attempting to cover beginning botany, soil science, turf care, vegetable gardening, fruit, herbaceous ornamentals, woody ornamentals, beginning entomology, pruning, composting, pesticide use, and plant pathology simply cannot go beyond an extremely elementary gloss on these subjects. There is also a huge amount that you have to learn through experience that just does not lend itself to a classroom context.
The horror stories are varied but usually involve a heady dose of hubris to go along with the "Master Gardener" title.

opabinia51
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I have a degree in biology and have spent a decade researching soil genesis, ecology, fungal and plant relationships in the soil and many other aspects of soil physics, chemistry and biology and still do not consider myself a master gardener.

Like I said, in the master gardener programs here there is to much emphasis on using non natural soil ammendments and detrimental soil products. Then you have these so called experts running around advising people to use all this stuff that industry pushes onto us which actually does very little to help our plants in the long term.

Anyway, my initial point was that even with all the knowledge I have acquired over the last decade, I still don't consider myself a Master Gardener and I agree Maine that 40 hours would not make you and expert. It would sure help to get you started though.

I think the organic mater gardeners cours that is offered by Gaia's College her in my city is a good step to take though. That way it at least points people in the right direction. The problem with the Master Gardeners courses is that they use purely books for research and I think to be really beneficial, Master Gardeners courses should teach students to use Peer Reviewed Journals for their research. They are a lot more technical but, the information is reviewed by scientific peers and thouroughly debated before publication.

This of course makes nothing a cold hard fact, keep in mind that just because something is published does not make it true. No mattter where it is published.

So, I think that Master Gardeners should be trained in research and how to have a critical eye when disseminating information.

Gardenmom
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I think many of us who are passionate about gardening, creating beautiful spaces, plant propagation and being environmentally aware and who have practiced all the above for years have already earned the title. I've learned so much by having a greenhouse (unfortunately lost during our home remodel project 2 years ago) and by absorbing every book and magazine article I could get my hands on for the past 12 years.
When you're drawn to the garden at 6:30am in your robe and slippers with a coffee cup in one hand a garden shears in your pocket, you know that gardening is your passion and there's dirt running through your veins.

So, I have to agree with you. The title of Master Gardener after my name would look nice, but there isn't a class out there that can "teach" what it feels to be in my knees in the garden digging in the dirt with the sounds of the water fountain, the birds, sweet music and a sense of peace. I almost think that by working in a nursery or even conforming to the rules of regs required of a master gardener program, that it would actually take away from the spiritual connection of gardening. I wouldn't want to jeopardize that.

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NEWisc
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Actually, the correct title is Master Gardener Volunteer (MGV) with the emphasis on volunteer. The program was never designed to produce an individual with a mastery of anything. The program was designed to create a group of volunteers that could assist University Extension Agents in answering questions from the general public. The training is designed to teach the volunteers the basics of a wide variety of horticultural practices. A knowledge of the basics helps the volunteer to get a better understanding of the question being asked, and a better idea of where to go to get the latest university based answer.

I'm not a MGV, but I've worked with many of them on several projects. I rarely encounter one that uses the master part of their title to feed their ego. The program actually discourages anyone from using the title for personal gain or as an advertising gimmick.

The quality of the program (and the volunteers produced) does vary from county to county and state to state. I'm fortunate that the Extension Agent in my area sets a very high standard for the program that he administers. If the program in your area is not producing quality volunteers, the local Extension Agent that administers the program should be asked to improve it.

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Well said, Gardenmom. :)

NewWisc, that's great information, thanks. So as volunteers, there is still a joy to be found in helping people out and disseminating good information. I like to think that information is good, bad information is not. And even though 40 hours may not make one an expert, it may be one way among many ways to enhance and incresase one's personal store of gardening knowledge.

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Jess
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Gardenmom wrote:When you're drawn to the garden at 6:30am in your robe and slippers with a coffee cup in one hand a garden shears in your pocket, you know that gardening is your passion and there's dirt running through your veins.
OMG!! Change that for a cup of tea and I will meet you out there!
:D Every morning come rain or shine off I go with my snuggy dressing gown and cup of tea to see what has happened since yesterday. Thought I was the only mad fool to do this! :D

opabinia51
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Gardenmom, you know that is exactly the enjoyment that I get out of my gardens. And being a scientist I feel that I have to know about all of the things that make that lovely garden work so well. I feel the same way you do and love seeing the beetles and even the snakes in my garden. I love the smell of the flowers, the taste of the berries, and the tecture of the soil.

I love watching robins eat the grubs I dig up when turning over the cover crops every year. I think you hit the nail right on the head.

And yes, I understand that the Master Gardener Program was started to help the University Extension Agents. I like how it has seem to have grown into the industry of nurseries in Canada. However, I'll say again that I don't like the fact that Master Gardener Programs (at least the one offered here) use the old paradigm of controlling the garden by using synthetics rather than working with your garden by allowing the soil to do it's job.

Personally, I am going to look into the syllabi of the Master Gardener courses before taking one. Though, I think an organic master gardeners course would be the way to go.

And yes, don't forget why you started gardening in the first place. I love how my hands feel in the soil. I love watching the various species of worms working away.

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NEWisc
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"So as volunteers, there is still a joy to be found in helping people out and disseminating good information. I like to think that information is good, bad information is not. And even though 40 hours may not make one an expert, it may be one way among many ways to enhance and incresase one's personal store of gardening knowledge."

Exactly. The volunteers do learn a lot during the course, and that increases their own enjoyment and success with gardening. But there's the additional pleasure that comes from helping others to be more successful with their gardening. And that's the real heart of the program. As with any volunteer effort, the real reward lies in the benefit that the assisted person receives.

With respect to the answers provided, the objective is to provide an answer within the assisted person's gardening philosophy; not to force any particular gardening philosophy onto that person. If the person wants an organic solution to a problem, then the MGV is supposed to look for the best science based organic solution. If the assisted person does not want an organic solution then the MGV will be looking for the best science based solution with the least environmental harm. "Least environmental harm" is not forcing a particular philosophy on anyone, it's a science based common good.

I'm not saying that the MGV program is perfect. I'm just reflecting on my experiences with the MGV's in my area.

TheLorax
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After having been a member here for a bit, I'd like to suggest the new Master Naturalist Volunteer programming that is becoming increasingly more available in many states. In theory, the MN volunteers adhere to the same MG core values as outlined by NEWisc however there is a considerably greater emphasis on ecology as well as natural history and hence a focus on science based solutions.

As one can see, MN programming is beginning to pop up all over the US.

https://okmasternaturalist.org/
https://gbamasternaturalist.org/
https://web.extension.uiuc.edu/rockisland/mnaturalist/index.html
https://www.virginiamasternaturalist.org/
https://masternaturalist.tamu.edu/
https://www.minnesotamasternaturalist.org/
https://www.masternaturalist.ifas.ufl.edu/
https://www.wvdnr.gov/wvmn/index.shtm
https://extension.missouri.edu/masternaturalist/
https://groups.ucanr.org/ucmasternaturalist/
https://www.gcmna.com/
https://www.nature.org/wherewework/northamerica/states/newmexico/volunteer/art13432.html

If one is interested in this type of programming, please also search for Volunteer Naturalists (VN)-
https://www.county.milwaukee.gov/router.asp?docid=11380
Wisconsin refers to Master Naturalists (MN) as Volunteer Naturalists (VN) so presumably other states may have also transitioned given it's truly all about empowering the public via education so home gardeners utilizing extension services are in the best position possible to make the most responsible choices for themselves when creating their own gardens.

I like the idea of an organic master gardener program. To the best of my knowledge, my state has no such programming available which is most unfortunate.

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imagardener2
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I couldn't agree more with what MaineDesigner and opabinia51 said!

I farmed and ranched for years. I also attended college during those years working on dual majors of Plant & Soil Science and Animal Science; it drives me crazy when I run into a 'Master Gardener'.

My most recent 'horror story' happened last fall.

When building new beds at my church I had a member come to help me one day. Come to find out she's a 'Master Gardener'. We had just finished planting dianthus in a new bed and were watering them in really well when she bent over and started 'firming in' each individual plant ~ in sopping wet CLAY!

All the while she was telling me how they just wouldn't grow unless I did that.....

TheLorax
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In defense of the many knowledgeable and progressive hands-on Master Gardeners out there who really do truly care about the counties they serve, I'd have to say it's so sad when a few bad apples spoil the bunch. There are considerably more "egoless" MGs who aren't enamored with their titles than those who are.

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Quietly Awesome
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I have had alot of people ask me, if I am a MG.
My DH told me to tell the next person that asks... "My husband baits alot of fishing hooks... does that make him a Master ..........?" :D

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imagardener2
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Quietly Awesome wrote:"My husband baits alot of fishing hooks... does that make him a Master ..........?" :D
Um, only if he's been to a class for it and can show a certificate of completion. [img]https://geocities.com/d_m_g_s/emoticons/laughing.gif[/img]

TheLorax
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Ohhh my imagardener2! I looooooooove your new signature!

wingdesigner
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Welll, in defense of the master gardeners and advanced master gardeners I know, they're some of the most "down-to-earth" folks I know. I'm also lucky to live near a place called Michigan School of Gardening. They offer four basic courses in soil, pests, botany, and something else I haven't taken yet and can't remember :oops: ; as well as courses for the hobby gardener and those looking to make it a business, I.e. design, contracts, pricing, various courses on perennials, annuals, trees/shrubs, and just about anything one can think of. They offer no degrees--it was not founded as that type of school; although they do offer certificates that involve going out with the pros and completing a hands-on project. I pop in occasionally when I can afford to and pick up a class.
I realise folks are all different, but I guess the MG's I know completed the programs because they thirsted for the knowledge offered, and the foundation laid for future gardening enjoyment. They like to know the whys and wherefores of this gardening stuff. Fortunately, I haven't run into the "puff adders" of that world.

doccat5
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Well, boy, this makes me feel silly. Since I just did my final 50 hours of volunteer work for my Master Gardener certification. And as another person stated this is done with the premise you will be willing to do volunteer work. It has nothing to do with being a "Master" in the education department.

But most of my counterparts are highly experienced hands on old school of hard knocks kind of gardeners who know from their experience what they are doing. The majority are all organic gardeners and have been doing this for longer than it's been a hot new "green" deal.

Just because you have the title does not mean you are an "expert". And I think that also should apply to all those 'real" degreed types as well. Everybody makes mistakes, to lump everyone into a category because you had a bad experience with an individual does not mean others are not knowledgable. Those that are in it for the ego boo are on their own, that's not what it's all about. This is designed as an program to help provide information and education about gardening to the public. It allows a vehicle and point of contact where John Q Public can tap into much of the various states databases on all types of crop controls etc that have been funded with our tax dollars.

Gardening is my passion and there are plenty of others out there who want to share their passion and their knowledge and have chosen to use this venue to do it. I resent your suggestion that we are all in it for the "title".

EarthFirstNatives
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I took the MG program in NJ through Rutgers University, and I can tell you its no 40 hours here. It was a full semester, 3 hours a week from Jan - June, then you do an 80 hour internship before you can become certified. They give you a ot of handouts to take home and read and do the quizes during the wek and you have a final; at the end. Attendance, quizes and final are all part of your grade. But it is a great learning experience if you have the opportunity to take it. I took it because I wanted to improve my skills as I was opening a native plant nursery. There is also a offshoot to that program called Environmental Stewardship, which I just completed two weeks ago, and have t o say it is another very worthwhile program. Some of the info is covered in both classes and we had 6 MGs in our class. I highly recommend both

Raven

praying mantis
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This definitely makes me want seek out courses that could expand my knowledge. I volunteer at my local food cooperative and have learned alot about produce. I volunteer at my local craft center and have more skills and friends than you can shake a leg at. Actually, I take my crafting very seriously and find this resource life essential.

About an hour ago, I joined the California Native Plant Society and plan to checkout the local arboretum volunteers. The arboretum has a training course with a considerable time commitment and continued time commitment as a volunteer. I am fairly certain this will be more than I can offer. I will continue to look for other opportunities. Mostly, I talk about gardening to everyone and see if anyone bites.

I have already met several Master Gardeners at fairs and farmer's markets. I listen and weigh what I hear relative to my own observations and materials. Sometimes, I use the additional information and sometimes I do whatever I want but with more confidence. I have no difficulty making my own decisions.

I feel this was a good discussion loaded with useful information.
thanks

TheLorax
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There's another program out there becoming more readily available-
The Master Naturalist

It's a tad bit more of a time commitment than the Master Gardener program although I don't believe one is required to take the next step by committing to volunteer at an extension office and fulfilling service hours. Might be a great way to expand one's knowledge and there is a greater demand for people with this skill set these days given the growing interest in native plants.

Both programs are really great.



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