Moved house a few times and I really am having a gripe at other gardeners attitude to weeds, because gardening doesn't have to be such a chore.
Usually when taking over a garden I find I am bogged down for a couple of months with weed extermination..stuff like brambles and horsetail basically wrecking borders, ash trees and the like growing inside hedges etc.
At my recent address, the first time I weeded it took something like three days. Two months on and that is down to about a quarter of an hour a week (quarter of an acre). I honestly suspect that the British gardener secretly likes to keep rough patches of weeds to complicate things, not really getting the idea that may be a stitch in time saves nine. Don't get me wrong I like some weeds...wild aqualegia, none stinging varieties of nettle and forget- me- nots, for example. But the value of brambles, common nettle and dandelions mixed into the herbacious border is lost on me. Even more so when it comes to tolerating stuff like horsetail.
It does bugs me that nearly all gardeners accept weeds and then spend hours on purges and catch ups as they spread like the plague, when a near total elimination means you will never get stung, have to crawl on your hands and kness or get ripped to shreds by brambles ever again, as I have over the last two months bottoming a garden that was nearly there but not quite.
I barely have any weeds, as I cover the top of my soil with thick mulch of hay and rabbit poop from a local animal shelter.
I used to get a lot of weeds though, before I realized all the benefits of mulching. At home, most of my garden is either in conatiners or in raised garden beds, so I use mulch there. But at my community garden, the weeds start growing under and around the wooden boards that I use as little paths. And the weeds slowly grow towards my plants, but normally, the mulch stops them.
I could, I suppose, mulch the paths as well, but that just wouldn't look good. So when I weed, I can never pull out the weeds with the roots (as the roots are under the board), so the weeds regrow very fast again. *sigh* so at the community garden, weeding is a weekly task for me
I used to get a lot of weeds though, before I realized all the benefits of mulching. At home, most of my garden is either in conatiners or in raised garden beds, so I use mulch there. But at my community garden, the weeds start growing under and around the wooden boards that I use as little paths. And the weeds slowly grow towards my plants, but normally, the mulch stops them.
I could, I suppose, mulch the paths as well, but that just wouldn't look good. So when I weed, I can never pull out the weeds with the roots (as the roots are under the board), so the weeds regrow very fast again. *sigh* so at the community garden, weeding is a weekly task for me
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rainbowgardener
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Well, yes and no. There are some vicious exotic invasive weeds that really need to be exterminated whenever they show up. Horsetail is a good example of one of those.
But over time I have come to "tolerate" more and more weeds. Dandelion with its deep tap root is a dynamic accumulator that brings up and stores minerals and nutrients from deep in the soil that many plants can't reach. It is great in the compost pile. But the greens and roots are also edible with many health benefits. It is a rich source of beta carotene and is also rich in vitamin C, fiber, potassium, iron, calcium, magnesium, zinc, and phosphorus, as well as B complex vitamins, trace minerals, etc. Dandelion also contains protein, more than spinach. It has been eaten for thousands of years as a food and as a medicine to treat anemia, scurvy, skin problems, blood disorders, and depression. And personally I think their cheery yellow flowers mixed in with purple wild violets make a beautiful spring lawn.
Stinging nettle is also a wonderful medicinal, makes a good healing tea. It also makes great fertilizer for your garden. Steep a whole batch of them in water for a couple weeks. They will release a lot of their nutrients into the water, including nitrogen, potassium, iron, magnesium, sulphur, calcium, copper.
Lamb's quarters is wild spinach. Purslane is a wonderful edible with lots of omega-3's, Vitamin A, Vitamin C, some B-vitamins and a lot of anti-oxidants. Plantain is a terrific medicinal and a miracle cure for taking the pain out of bee stings and small injuries.
And even for things that aren't edible/medicinal, lots of weeds are great for attracting beneficial insects to your garden. Some like velvet leaf make great trap crops for things like Japanese beetles. Some are necessary habitat. If you want to have more praying mantis in your yard, you need to leave some areas of taller grasses/ weeds.
The more I find out about weeds, the fewer of them I pull ....
But over time I have come to "tolerate" more and more weeds. Dandelion with its deep tap root is a dynamic accumulator that brings up and stores minerals and nutrients from deep in the soil that many plants can't reach. It is great in the compost pile. But the greens and roots are also edible with many health benefits. It is a rich source of beta carotene and is also rich in vitamin C, fiber, potassium, iron, calcium, magnesium, zinc, and phosphorus, as well as B complex vitamins, trace minerals, etc. Dandelion also contains protein, more than spinach. It has been eaten for thousands of years as a food and as a medicine to treat anemia, scurvy, skin problems, blood disorders, and depression. And personally I think their cheery yellow flowers mixed in with purple wild violets make a beautiful spring lawn.
Stinging nettle is also a wonderful medicinal, makes a good healing tea. It also makes great fertilizer for your garden. Steep a whole batch of them in water for a couple weeks. They will release a lot of their nutrients into the water, including nitrogen, potassium, iron, magnesium, sulphur, calcium, copper.
Lamb's quarters is wild spinach. Purslane is a wonderful edible with lots of omega-3's, Vitamin A, Vitamin C, some B-vitamins and a lot of anti-oxidants. Plantain is a terrific medicinal and a miracle cure for taking the pain out of bee stings and small injuries.
And even for things that aren't edible/medicinal, lots of weeds are great for attracting beneficial insects to your garden. Some like velvet leaf make great trap crops for things like Japanese beetles. Some are necessary habitat. If you want to have more praying mantis in your yard, you need to leave some areas of taller grasses/ weeds.
The more I find out about weeds, the fewer of them I pull ....
I guess it depends on what sort of garden you are aiming for. If indeed you like certain weeds then that is fine.
However, I think most gardeners would prefer not to see nettles and dandelions, but rather than going for a total purge seem to tolerate a nearly weeded garden which in the long run takes hours longer to maintain. The stitch in time thingy I mentioned in my OP.
However, I think most gardeners would prefer not to see nettles and dandelions, but rather than going for a total purge seem to tolerate a nearly weeded garden which in the long run takes hours longer to maintain. The stitch in time thingy I mentioned in my OP.
I wish I did not have weeds, but the reality is that there are more weeds than I can keep up with. Some of them are useful, but for the most part eradicating them is nearly imposssible. I will settle for some semblance of control. If I had more time, I could work on more of it, but if I just weeded, that would be all I would be doing. As it is, I go through a couple of weed whackers a year and I have other things to do besides work in the yard.
I think near total eradication is possible, you need to find the time and bite the bullet. Instead most gardeners leave rough bits here and there and these are breeding grounds for ingress to the rest of the garden. In the long run that loses time because one weed will spawn ten,
Ok there might be environmental reasons for keeping rough bits, I would also argue that there are environmental reasons for not doing so. Take the early flowers that are vital for the honey bee, if your May flowers are half obliterated by dandelions, brambles, nettles and buttercups, none of which give a lot of flowering fizz for your buck, you will not have weed free glades of wild aqualegia and forget me not for the bees to feast on. The point is the weeds you don't want obliterate the wild flowers and domestic flowers what you and the bees want.
I guess there are some creatures that will benefit by wild bits and give food to birds. But what I don't get is why the next door neighbour, for example, leaves about six inches of weeds by the fence, you know grass, brambles, horsetail..what's so difficult about just finishing the border to the end instead of having a 6'' nursery bed of weeds to spread everywhere.
Ok there might be environmental reasons for keeping rough bits, I would also argue that there are environmental reasons for not doing so. Take the early flowers that are vital for the honey bee, if your May flowers are half obliterated by dandelions, brambles, nettles and buttercups, none of which give a lot of flowering fizz for your buck, you will not have weed free glades of wild aqualegia and forget me not for the bees to feast on. The point is the weeds you don't want obliterate the wild flowers and domestic flowers what you and the bees want.
I guess there are some creatures that will benefit by wild bits and give food to birds. But what I don't get is why the next door neighbour, for example, leaves about six inches of weeds by the fence, you know grass, brambles, horsetail..what's so difficult about just finishing the border to the end instead of having a 6'' nursery bed of weeds to spread everywhere.
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applestar
- Mod
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Ha I wasn't going to comment because my earlier knee jerk reaction was argumentative, but I think I'm in a better frame of mind now. 
I like leaving strips and patches of semi-wild areas on my postage stamp-sized property. Those are areas where, without my intervention, nature can proceed with "normal" cycles of competition and succession. This is not only in the plant world but in the insect and microbe worlds too. These are the areas where, like Rainbowgardener mentioned, the praying mantises prefer to complete their lifecycle each season and lay egg casings to overwinter. Presumably, food is plentiful and the mother mantises feel they are good places for their babies to hatch and have a chance to grow up.
Things go on in there that I have no clear knowledge of and I can't presume to make changes and make it better for them. These are also places where my Garden Patrol -- not just the praying mantises -- find sanctuary ...food and shelter. Then they can go forth and spread out to go to work around the rest of the garden. I'm always happy to notice a new resident or visitor.
You'LL be happy to know I don't create these weedy areas along my property line with the neighbors. The reason is obvious -- I can't be sure that they will NOT spray herbicides and pesticides. No, these sanctuaries are deep and safely inside our property line.
...oh! I should also add -- I am noticing that earthworms seem to preferentially congregate in the roots of some weeds. Sometimes, it seems to benefit vegetable plants in the garden to leave certain weeds growing between them in open spaces until it becomes necessary to remove them -- then I typically just pull or hoe below soil-line and drop -- leaving them wilting on the surface as mulch.
I like leaving strips and patches of semi-wild areas on my postage stamp-sized property. Those are areas where, without my intervention, nature can proceed with "normal" cycles of competition and succession. This is not only in the plant world but in the insect and microbe worlds too. These are the areas where, like Rainbowgardener mentioned, the praying mantises prefer to complete their lifecycle each season and lay egg casings to overwinter. Presumably, food is plentiful and the mother mantises feel they are good places for their babies to hatch and have a chance to grow up.
Things go on in there that I have no clear knowledge of and I can't presume to make changes and make it better for them. These are also places where my Garden Patrol -- not just the praying mantises -- find sanctuary ...food and shelter. Then they can go forth and spread out to go to work around the rest of the garden. I'm always happy to notice a new resident or visitor.
You'LL be happy to know I don't create these weedy areas along my property line with the neighbors. The reason is obvious -- I can't be sure that they will NOT spray herbicides and pesticides. No, these sanctuaries are deep and safely inside our property line.
...oh! I should also add -- I am noticing that earthworms seem to preferentially congregate in the roots of some weeds. Sometimes, it seems to benefit vegetable plants in the garden to leave certain weeds growing between them in open spaces until it becomes necessary to remove them -- then I typically just pull or hoe below soil-line and drop -- leaving them wilting on the surface as mulch.
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Allyn
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You know, people have different priorities. We're all in our own movie, as my husband is fond of saying, so what seems blatantly obvious as important to one person is of no concern to someone else. I don't want to "bite the bullet' and heavily weed my garden. Beneficial insects come to my 'weeds' and while they're here, they take care of pests that I don't want. So what if they are considered weeds? I can still grow what I want to grow despite them being here, I don't have to do hard work that I deem as unnecessary, and the weedy places make wonderful patches of habitat for insects that my chickens love to eat. As has already been pointed out, some plants people considered weeds have beneficial properties and some people are trying to achieve a measure of self-sustainability and don't care about perfectly manicured gardens.
It's only a weed to you if you have no use for it. Even the most expense garden plant can be a 'weed' if it is planted somewhere you don't want it. You may disagree with me (I'm sure you will), but I'm not joining your movie.
It's only a weed to you if you have no use for it. Even the most expense garden plant can be a 'weed' if it is planted somewhere you don't want it. You may disagree with me (I'm sure you will), but I'm not joining your movie.
I am not knocking those who for environmental reasons want to keep wild areas, indeed confined to zones they will have little impact on the rest of the garden as far as the spread of weeds go. Also if you are happy with a variety of weeds like vetch, rosebay willow herb and dandelions in your herbaceous borders that is fine too.
What I am pointing out is there is a method of gardening that can turn the biggest and most complicated gardens into a breeze not a chore simply by biting the bullet and exterminating weeds from every square inch, designated wild areas excepted.
Only really annalkona gets it. She has turned her own garden into a weed free heavily mulched sinch, whilst her community garden, where nobody has bit the bullet, the members are spending hours just keeping on top of the weeds.
Bottoming a garden means getting rid of that couch grass right under the hedges and to the boundaries and getting rid of the persistence weeds in herbaceous borders. It means breaking up every last clump of soil that will harbour weeds. Sure you will need a couple of months at it, but eventually weeding is a stroll around the garden with a trowel, not getting your hands stung, knees wrecked and skin torn by brambles. Don't get me wrong my garden is filled with wild flowers, just the ones I want. Some people would consider some of these weeds.
So why do we zap the weeds (the ones we don't want) to about a nearly there stage. Like treating cancer but stopping the treatment when we are nearly cured so we need to keep the aggressive treatment on forever.
(1) It's how gardening has always been done.
(2) It's the way the star media gardeners do it, and indeed they think aggressive bottoming destroys the plants you want to keep. No it doesn't, they will come back. The weeds will, however, destroy the flowers.
(3) It's an excuse to break your back forever, leave a few weeds to multiply tenfold. After all gardening should be complicated not just a walk in the park.
I'm expecting stick for this topic, almost bottoming an garden is how 99% of gardeners do it, I still don't think it's right. In the long run it equals hours of extra weeding. My time is very important to me.
Put it is this way, in the house I have just bought, initially I thought the garden might boss me. I spent hours hours cutting trees out of the hedge that had seeded, hours digging up horsetail and pulling out goose grass and vetch etc. I could have just got to that nearly stage and been content with weeding forever. However, two months on I have a weed free garden and my weekly weeding is a stroll around with a trowel in 15 minutes (now mainly horsetail) which will give up the ghost once the roots have finally be starved. That's how I intend to keep going on my stitch in time saves nine principle.
What I am pointing out is there is a method of gardening that can turn the biggest and most complicated gardens into a breeze not a chore simply by biting the bullet and exterminating weeds from every square inch, designated wild areas excepted.
Only really annalkona gets it. She has turned her own garden into a weed free heavily mulched sinch, whilst her community garden, where nobody has bit the bullet, the members are spending hours just keeping on top of the weeds.
Bottoming a garden means getting rid of that couch grass right under the hedges and to the boundaries and getting rid of the persistence weeds in herbaceous borders. It means breaking up every last clump of soil that will harbour weeds. Sure you will need a couple of months at it, but eventually weeding is a stroll around the garden with a trowel, not getting your hands stung, knees wrecked and skin torn by brambles. Don't get me wrong my garden is filled with wild flowers, just the ones I want. Some people would consider some of these weeds.
So why do we zap the weeds (the ones we don't want) to about a nearly there stage. Like treating cancer but stopping the treatment when we are nearly cured so we need to keep the aggressive treatment on forever.
(1) It's how gardening has always been done.
(2) It's the way the star media gardeners do it, and indeed they think aggressive bottoming destroys the plants you want to keep. No it doesn't, they will come back. The weeds will, however, destroy the flowers.
(3) It's an excuse to break your back forever, leave a few weeds to multiply tenfold. After all gardening should be complicated not just a walk in the park.
I'm expecting stick for this topic, almost bottoming an garden is how 99% of gardeners do it, I still don't think it's right. In the long run it equals hours of extra weeding. My time is very important to me.
Put it is this way, in the house I have just bought, initially I thought the garden might boss me. I spent hours hours cutting trees out of the hedge that had seeded, hours digging up horsetail and pulling out goose grass and vetch etc. I could have just got to that nearly stage and been content with weeding forever. However, two months on I have a weed free garden and my weekly weeding is a stroll around with a trowel in 15 minutes (now mainly horsetail) which will give up the ghost once the roots have finally be starved. That's how I intend to keep going on my stitch in time saves nine principle.
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rainbowgardener
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Somewhere in the mists of Forum history, there's a thread I'm not going to bother looking for now, where a previous mod here cynthia, talked about getting rid of some nasty persistent grassy weed that spreads from the roots under ground. She did it by digging up all the soil in the garden area down to (I don't remember) at least a foot deep and SIFTING all those roots out of the soil. Problem eliminated.It is an example of your principle - investing a LOT of work in the front end to save dealing with it forever in the back end.
Where I don't want any weeds, like in my veggie gardens, I mulch heavily. I'm just not a lawn person. Grass mono-culture doesn't make sense to me. I'd just as soon have a diversity of useful and pretty plants with wild edges.
Where I don't want any weeds, like in my veggie gardens, I mulch heavily. I'm just not a lawn person. Grass mono-culture doesn't make sense to me. I'd just as soon have a diversity of useful and pretty plants with wild edges.
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ButterflyLady29
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Around here the big weed problems are ailanthus trees, poison ivy and Canadian thistle. The thistle seeds blow in from neighboring cornfields. The ailanthus comes from the neighboring park tolerating the nuisance. The poison ivy seeds get dropped by birds. Anything else is tolerated unless it's coming up where I don't want it or I just plain hate it. And occasionally you'll see places where I've stopped weeding. Usually there's a good reason like the time I found a thousand spiderlings in a web encased plant or the time I found a bird nest on the ground or even the place where the ground wasps had a nest entrance.
Some of your problem might be from how long the houses were vacant before you moved in. An ash tree seedling can grow a few feet in a couple years. Horsetails spread quickly. Brambles grow by leaps and bounds and if they are the kind that produces tasty berries they might have been once contained and neatly trimmed.
We spend every spring rooting out those mockernut hickory trees planted every fall by squirrels. Some years we might miss one or two. Easily rectified with a saw and a bottle of stump killer. That's how I got rid of 50 years worth of privet honeysuckle growth.
Some of your problem might be from how long the houses were vacant before you moved in. An ash tree seedling can grow a few feet in a couple years. Horsetails spread quickly. Brambles grow by leaps and bounds and if they are the kind that produces tasty berries they might have been once contained and neatly trimmed.
We spend every spring rooting out those mockernut hickory trees planted every fall by squirrels. Some years we might miss one or two. Easily rectified with a saw and a bottle of stump killer. That's how I got rid of 50 years worth of privet honeysuckle growth.