With the topics here on bees, made me think of something.
When roundup ready crops came out, it was already known that in time some weeds would end up having a resistance to it. That's just the way nature works. Scientists knew it, farmers knew it. So no big secret.
Now there's the honey bee (and other insects)
We're talking the group of animals we were told would survive a nuclear war just fine.
Doesn't observation say that bees, like weeds, will develop resistance to
chemicals and survive?
Just a thought.
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rainbowgardener
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Nice thought, but the trouble is we are bombarding them. Analysis of abandoned hives (colony collapse disorder) shows more than 30 different pesticides, fungicides etc present in each one. And not the same ones all the time. We keep varying them, bringing new ones on line, etc. If there were one insecticide, maybe they'd have a chance to develop resistance, but we keep hitting them with more and more. Can't develop resistance to all that.
It's how we treat resistant diseases, like cancer, AIDS, and bacterial diseases that have developed resistance to common anti-biotics -- we hit them with a drug cocktail of different treatments and vary the regimen. The target populations can't develop enough resistances fast enough.
You'd think we were setting out to kill all the bees, since we are treating them like that....
"Searching for clues to the mysterious disappearance of bees, known as “colony collapse disorderâ€
It's how we treat resistant diseases, like cancer, AIDS, and bacterial diseases that have developed resistance to common anti-biotics -- we hit them with a drug cocktail of different treatments and vary the regimen. The target populations can't develop enough resistances fast enough.
You'd think we were setting out to kill all the bees, since we are treating them like that....
"Searching for clues to the mysterious disappearance of bees, known as “colony collapse disorderâ€
@tom....agree 100%. We don't want to end up eating nothing but gruel.
It's just that nature may be more adaptable than we give it credit for.
I read an article a while ago that bee populations have been found that are resistant to specific sprays(sorry, I'll have to search for it again). The down side seemed to be that they were being "collected", so I imagine someone is either trying to hoard them for their own survival or for monetary gain.
Imagine that !
It's just that nature may be more adaptable than we give it credit for.
I read an article a while ago that bee populations have been found that are resistant to specific sprays(sorry, I'll have to search for it again). The down side seemed to be that they were being "collected", so I imagine someone is either trying to hoard them for their own survival or for monetary gain.
Imagine that !
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rainbowgardener
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rainbowgardener
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No you are right, single hives are found (as I said above) with 30 or so different -cides in them, herbicides, fungicides, pesticides, etc.
Read any of the commercial farming literature on chemical regimens recommended and you will NOT be surprised at this.
At the same time, some favored technologies are starting to lose their edge. Some growers have found they must use more chemicals to combat the very weeds and crop-damaging pests that biotech seeds were engineered to address. https://www.empowher.com/healthy-eating/content/food-security-focus-fuels-new-crop-chemical-worries
Because some weeds and pests are starting to develop resistances, commercial farmers use more chemicals, and more different chemicals. Recommendations to farmers are to rotate the pesticides and herbicides to make them more effective. These chemicals are mostly quite persistant, so if farmer uses one chemical this month and a different one next month and a third one the third month, all of them will be present in the hive.
Read any of the commercial farming literature on chemical regimens recommended and you will NOT be surprised at this.
At the same time, some favored technologies are starting to lose their edge. Some growers have found they must use more chemicals to combat the very weeds and crop-damaging pests that biotech seeds were engineered to address. https://www.empowher.com/healthy-eating/content/food-security-focus-fuels-new-crop-chemical-worries
Because some weeds and pests are starting to develop resistances, commercial farmers use more chemicals, and more different chemicals. Recommendations to farmers are to rotate the pesticides and herbicides to make them more effective. These chemicals are mostly quite persistant, so if farmer uses one chemical this month and a different one next month and a third one the third month, all of them will be present in the hive.
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rainbowgardener
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Just for educational purposes:
Here's some quotes from an article I found about commercial growing of cabbage from Ohio State University:
Weed control: Apply preplant incorporated (PPI) herbicides, Command 4 EC, trifluralin, or Prefar:
‣ Apply Command 3ME, Goal XL or Dual Magnum after final seed or transplant bed preparation. Dual Magnum and Goal XL for transplants only. If Goal XL was used, transplant cabbage without additional soil tillage.
If cabbage maggot cannot be avoided by choice of planting time, then apply soil insecticide (Lorsban or Diazinon) at seeding or at transplanting for cabbage maggot control; see insecticide details on page 116.
Disease management: For damping-off control, apply Ridomil Gold 4E (for Pythium) plus Thiram or Maxim 4FS (for other fungi).
‣ If clubroot has been a problem at this site, add Terraclor 75WP in the transplant solution.
Weed management: Apply POST PLANT herbicides for weed control:
 Dacthal: mainly annual grasses
 Dual Magnum: mainly annual grasses but also controls galinsoga, eastern black nightshade and purslane when applied before they emerge. Apply within 48 hours of transplanting. Use on transplanted cabbage only.
 Lentagran: controls very small broadleaf weeds.
Flea beetle management: Scout direct-seeded crops twice per week during the seedling stages for flea beetles, especially on sunny, windless days. If beetles are causing stand loss, then spray insecticide
Caterpillar management: If seedling stage occurs in August-September: Cabbage looper activity often begins in August. If threshold is ex¬ceeded (pages 115-116) but looper numbers are low, use B.t. for control so that natural enemies survive, otherwise use a material that is more effective for loopers but still has low impact on natural enemies (e.g., Confirm, Spintor, Proclaim)
Disease management: If black rot appears, apply fixed copper sprays
If symptoms of Alternaria leaf spot appear, apply Bravo or Maneb on a weekly schedule
Post harvest disease management: Control weeds after harvest to prevent further seed production. Use tillage, herbicides, and/or mowing to accomplish this. In fall, leave any dead weed residue on the surface as long as possible. Predation and weathering may reduce the number of over-wintering weed seed. Apply Roundup or other glyphosate product to emerged perennial weeds.
See pp. 113 on for lists of chemicals
p. 116 is list of 35 different insecticides for use on cabbage and related crops, with what pests they are good for and spraying schedule ranging from weekly to monthly. And that doesn't count the herbicides, fungicides, etc.
https://ohioline.osu.edu/b672/pdf/Cabbage.pdf
Obviously no farmer is going to use all of those, but it is recommended to use several in each category and rotate them. And that's just cabbages. In the bees range are going to be several different crops.
Here's some quotes from an article I found about commercial growing of cabbage from Ohio State University:
Weed control: Apply preplant incorporated (PPI) herbicides, Command 4 EC, trifluralin, or Prefar:
‣ Apply Command 3ME, Goal XL or Dual Magnum after final seed or transplant bed preparation. Dual Magnum and Goal XL for transplants only. If Goal XL was used, transplant cabbage without additional soil tillage.
If cabbage maggot cannot be avoided by choice of planting time, then apply soil insecticide (Lorsban or Diazinon) at seeding or at transplanting for cabbage maggot control; see insecticide details on page 116.
Disease management: For damping-off control, apply Ridomil Gold 4E (for Pythium) plus Thiram or Maxim 4FS (for other fungi).
‣ If clubroot has been a problem at this site, add Terraclor 75WP in the transplant solution.
Weed management: Apply POST PLANT herbicides for weed control:
 Dacthal: mainly annual grasses
 Dual Magnum: mainly annual grasses but also controls galinsoga, eastern black nightshade and purslane when applied before they emerge. Apply within 48 hours of transplanting. Use on transplanted cabbage only.
 Lentagran: controls very small broadleaf weeds.
Flea beetle management: Scout direct-seeded crops twice per week during the seedling stages for flea beetles, especially on sunny, windless days. If beetles are causing stand loss, then spray insecticide
Caterpillar management: If seedling stage occurs in August-September: Cabbage looper activity often begins in August. If threshold is ex¬ceeded (pages 115-116) but looper numbers are low, use B.t. for control so that natural enemies survive, otherwise use a material that is more effective for loopers but still has low impact on natural enemies (e.g., Confirm, Spintor, Proclaim)
Disease management: If black rot appears, apply fixed copper sprays
If symptoms of Alternaria leaf spot appear, apply Bravo or Maneb on a weekly schedule
Post harvest disease management: Control weeds after harvest to prevent further seed production. Use tillage, herbicides, and/or mowing to accomplish this. In fall, leave any dead weed residue on the surface as long as possible. Predation and weathering may reduce the number of over-wintering weed seed. Apply Roundup or other glyphosate product to emerged perennial weeds.
See pp. 113 on for lists of chemicals
p. 116 is list of 35 different insecticides for use on cabbage and related crops, with what pests they are good for and spraying schedule ranging from weekly to monthly. And that doesn't count the herbicides, fungicides, etc.
https://ohioline.osu.edu/b672/pdf/Cabbage.pdf
Obviously no farmer is going to use all of those, but it is recommended to use several in each category and rotate them. And that's just cabbages. In the bees range are going to be several different crops.
We may be talking two different issues. I'm referring to the local bees that show up at my garden and orchard; sounds like you're talking about the big commercial hive operators that tote their bees all over a state or states.
Obviously the travelling bees will be exposed to more, whereas the locals relatively few.
Obviously the travelling bees will be exposed to more, whereas the locals relatively few.
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rainbowgardener
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Not necessarily the ones that are trucked all over, but at least the ones that have commercial farms in their range. And yes the ones that are trucked all over are the most decimated with colony collapse.
Bees that are hived in organic gardens with diversified plantings are so far surviving well and not suffering colony collapse. But even some home gardeners are using pretty many chemicals. And some chemicals get in to the soil, water, air....
So it depends on how many safe havens we can make for them. That's why some of us garden carefully with bees in mind - with flowers they like and no harmful chemicals. I didn't understand your question as can we save a few bees by making safe havens for them. Yes, we can, but that won't save agriculture. Agricultural methods have to change; bees cannot adapt to what conventional agribusiness methods are doing. And those methods are not sustainable anyway, for a lot of other reasons, being petroleum dependent, energy inefficient, etc.
Bees that are hived in organic gardens with diversified plantings are so far surviving well and not suffering colony collapse. But even some home gardeners are using pretty many chemicals. And some chemicals get in to the soil, water, air....
So it depends on how many safe havens we can make for them. That's why some of us garden carefully with bees in mind - with flowers they like and no harmful chemicals. I didn't understand your question as can we save a few bees by making safe havens for them. Yes, we can, but that won't save agriculture. Agricultural methods have to change; bees cannot adapt to what conventional agribusiness methods are doing. And those methods are not sustainable anyway, for a lot of other reasons, being petroleum dependent, energy inefficient, etc.