tylianna
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Confused about Monsanto

I did a forum search and came up with some answers to my questions. I understand Monsanto is the company that makes Roundup, and they also make some GMO seeds?

Are these seeds only available on a large scale, or are some seeds that I buy in the little packets at the store Monsanto?

Do they do anything else that I don't know about?

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gixxerific
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The seed you buy at the store are not Monsanto.

And yes they do a lot you don't know about or maybe don't want to know about. They are bad.

If you want to learn why I say they are bad give this video a try. It will open your eyes a bit wider.

https://wideeyecinema.com/?p=105

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rainbowgardener
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Hey gixx, can you give me a clue how long this video is? I started watching it, but four minutes into it the slide that usually goes across to show you what % of the way done you are hadn't moved. So then I started thinking maybe I would have to set aside an hour some time to watch it.

Does look interesting though.
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rainbowgardener wrote:Hey gixx, can you give me a clue how long this video is? I started watching it, but four minutes into it the slide that usually goes across to show you what % of the way done you are hadn't moved. So then I started thinking maybe I would have to set aside an hour some time to watch it.

Does look interesting though.
Oh it is very good and gets even better near the end. It's a long one 1:48 but worth it. Maybe watch some of it set aside on pause and come back and watch the rest.

Enjoy

Dono

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rainbowgardener
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Oh ... I saw the 1:48 and first thought that meant 1 min 48 sec, which a lot of YouTube videos are. You mean almost 2 hours... wow. that seems like a commitment! Is it out on DVD or something? I really don't like watching 2 hr videos on my computer...
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gixxerific
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rainbowgardener wrote:Oh ... I saw the 1:48 and first thought that meant 1 min 48 sec, which a lot of YouTube videos are. You mean almost 2 hours... wow. that seems like a commitment! Is it out on DVD or something? I really don't like watching 2 hr videos on my computer...
Sorry I think this is the only place to find it anywhere. I watched in 2 parts.

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Oh THIS video. Definitely worth watching IMHO. Do what Gixx said, watch and pause, in "digestible" pieces. I found that I NEEDED to pause and think about some of the things I saw, before moving on to the next part. You may find that you'll need to pause every so often and RANT at the computer, for lack of other targets.

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applestar wrote: You may find that you'll need to pause every so often and RANT at the computer, for lack of other targets.
:lol: :lol: Very true!

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rootsy
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Re: Confused about Monsanto

tylianna wrote:I did a forum search and came up with some answers to my questions. I understand Monsanto is the company that makes Roundup, and they also make some GMO seeds?

Are these seeds only available on a large scale, or are some seeds that I buy in the little packets at the store Monsanto?

Do they do anything else that I don't know about?
Monsanto is a cash crop seed genetics producer... Dent corn, Soybean, Sugar beet, Canola... These seeds are genetically modified so that they are not effected by glyphosate (active ingredient in Round-Up). On top of that there are other genetically modified traits.. Take dent corn for example you can purchase what are known as "Triple stacks" or VT3's... Round-Up resistant, BT resistant and root worm (rw) resistance.

You can get triple and quad stacks from Sygenta which are a Liberty Link corn (Liberty herbicide resistant) as well as BT and RW tolerant and the quad stack is also RR resistant...

None of the seed you buy in the store in packets is anything but a traditional hybrid (the offspring of 2 open pollinated or hybrid parents).

Sygenta does offer a GMO sweet corn that has the attribute gene. It is a BT (corn borer) resistant corn. Available to commercial class growers in quantities of 25K seed minimum packaging.

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I think it's important to emphasize that all these Roundup and Liberty herbicide RESISTANT plants are intended to be SPRAYED with the herbicides. The idea is that the resistant crops will remain standing while the weeds growing around them will die.

As I understand it, this method eliminates the extra step of spraying the weeds in the field and waiting the prescribed period of time BEFORE planting and mechanically or physically removing the weeds from the fields while the crops are in growth.

Bt GMO corn have the Bt bacteria gene spliced into them. Eating these crops kills the caterpillars.

Setting aside for the moment the question regarding possible effects on humans eating these corn, I understand that the pollen from these Bt corn, landing on milkweeds kill Monarch butterfly caterpillars, not to mention other butterfly caterpillars eating other plants.

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applestar wrote:I think it's important to emphasize that all these Roundup and Liberty herbicide RESISTANT plants are intended to be SPRAYED with the herbicides. The idea is that the resistant crops will remain standing while the weeds growing around them will die.

As I understand it, this method eliminates the extra step of spraying the weeds in the field and waiting the prescribed period of time BEFORE planting and mechanically or physically removing the weeds from the fields while the crops are in growth.

Bt GMO corn have the Bt bacteria gene spliced into them. Eating these crops kills the caterpillars.

Setting aside for the moment the question regarding possible effects on humans eating these corn, I understand that the pollen from these Bt corn, landing on milkweeds kill Monarch butterfly caterpillars, not to mention other butterfly caterpillars eating other plants.
Don't forget that the pollen from this corn could wipe out non GMO corn forever, everywhere. If non GMO corn is pollinated with the GMO corn it mutates. Mexico which has thousands of natural variety's of corn is in peril. Not because it is grown there but the corn is shipped there and seed is dropped and than grows and than spreads and is threatening all of their variety's to a possible extinction. Not to mention that Monsanto could try to come in a take the land saying that they are growing their patented corn. What a mess.

Watch the video! :twisted:

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Oh and the Roundup resistant corn is suppose to cut down on spraying's. But Monsanto sells the farmer the corn while making him sign a contract not to save seed or they will sue you into bankruptcy (yes it happens). Than they sell you the pesticide to spray the corn. Oh yeah they also get a percentage of sales on the corn as well since they own the patent on the corn seed. They are making money hand over fist. And moving into many other variety's of vegetable they are trying to take over the world.

He who rules the food rules the world. That is more powerful than any bomb. :idea: :evil:
Last edited by gixxerific on Fri May 14, 2010 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

tylianna
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Ok, now I see why there are always remarks about Monsanto. I've read a few that said "those aren't Monsanto seeds, are they?" And wondered if I could have unknowingly bought some! I feel better now!

Here I thought the worst thing they sprayed on crops were pesticides. Now they can spray HERBICIDES? :shock:

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applestar wrote:I think it's important to emphasize that all these Roundup and Liberty herbicide RESISTANT plants are intended to be SPRAYED with the herbicides. The idea is that the resistant crops will remain standing while the weeds growing around them will die.

As I understand it, this method eliminates the extra step of spraying the weeds in the field and waiting the prescribed period of time BEFORE planting and mechanically or physically removing the weeds from the fields while the crops are in growth.

Bt GMO corn have the Bt bacteria gene spliced into them. Eating these crops kills the caterpillars.

Setting aside for the moment the question regarding possible effects on humans eating these corn, I understand that the pollen from these Bt corn, landing on milkweeds kill Monarch butterfly caterpillars, not to mention other butterfly caterpillars eating other plants.
You are correct more or less about application. Generally there is a burn down at planting with a mixture of various chemicals... A standard mix having active ingredients of a atrazine / triazine chemical + glyphosate + AMS (ammonia sulfide - 21-0-0-24) as a carrier to aid in plant take-up.

There are quite a few chemicals for use on row-crop plants...

Once the plant is up to a certain point - usually pre-canopy- you come back and apply glyphosate at the label rate or liberty if it is liberty link.

Once canopied the sun is sufficiently blocked out and inhibits weed growth.

The price of GMO seed + herbicide per acre is less than the price of non GMO seed + herbicide + pesticide + mechanical cultivation....

The downside... Aside from the concerns with what is in the plant is that if you use too heavy a rate of chemicals over time you end up with resistant weeds... Which is what is being seen in some areas of the country currently...

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rootsy
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gixxerific wrote:Oh and the Roundup resistant corn is suppose to cut down on spraying's. But Monsanto sells the farmer the corn while making him sign a contract not to save seed or they will sue you into bankruptcy (yes it happens). Than they sell you the pesticide to spray the corn. Oh yeah they also get a percentage of sales on the corn as well since they own the patent on the corn seed. They are making money hand over fist. And moving into many other variety's of vegetable they are trying to take over the world.

He who rules the food rules the world. That is more powerful than any bomb. :idea: :evil:
FYI... China exports more generic 41% Glyphosate than Monsanto sells in country... I can honestly say I don't know a single farmer that uses name brand Round-Up... I know A LOT of farmers... Most operate on well over 1000 acres... Monsanto does offer some form of replant or rebate deal if you use name brand Round-Up and it doesn't give satisfactory results... But the price difference between brand name and generic is almost 4:1

Yes when you decide to use Monsanto genetics you sign a contract and pay a technology fee... You are not allowed to reuse saved seed... In this case it would only work in Soybeans... Growing a hybrid corn of course results in an offspring that is not the same as it's parent and if you don't have 2 different parents then it's more or less like inbreeding and you have no idea what you are going to end up with come October...

Monsanto DOES NOT receive a portion of your sales...

Yes they take patent / contract infringement very seriously... Not to say there aren't stories out there of individuals who have been affected by wind drift in say Canola that have been in litigation for decades...

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I can't hear the name Monsanto without wanting to go downstairs and have a few moments with my punching bag.

My Dad was a Vietnam vet--sprayed with Agent Orange, dead from cancer at 49, thanks Monsanto.

Also, this
[url]https://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/04/business/energy-environment/04weed.html?WT.mc_id=BU-SM-E-FB-SM-LIN-ROT-050410-NYT-NA&WT.mc_ev=click[/url]
Stephanie

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FYI... China exports more generic 41% Glyphosate than Monsanto sells in country
Oh, great. Now I'm concerned about what's in the other 59%. :eek: :roll:

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Some years back I read that Monsanto had sued some farmers whose fields were near fields of GM corn for stealing there modified corn. What was going on is that the pollen from the GM fields drifted in to the non GM fields and the resultant corn had the modified genes in them. Monsanto won the case. I could not belief the verdict. If any thing the local farmers should be able to sue Monsanto for contaminating their crops.

Monstersanto should be their name. :wink:

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applestar wrote:
FYI... China exports more generic 41% Glyphosate than Monsanto sells in country
Oh, great. Now I'm concerned about what's in the other 59%. :eek: :roll:
China can not even make milk with out cheating and putting posion in to it.

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rootsy wrote:
gixxerific wrote:Oh and the Roundup resistant corn is suppose to cut down on spraying's. But Monsanto sells the farmer the corn while making him sign a contract not to save seed or they will sue you into bankruptcy (yes it happens). Than they sell you the pesticide to spray the corn. Oh yeah they also get a percentage of sales on the corn as well since they own the patent on the corn seed. They are making money hand over fist. And moving into many other variety's of vegetable they are trying to take over the world.

He who rules the food rules the world. That is more powerful than any bomb. :idea: :evil:
FYI... China exports more generic 41% Glyphosate than Monsanto sells in country... I can honestly say I don't know a single farmer that uses name brand Round-Up... I know A LOT of farmers... Most operate on well over 1000 acres... Monsanto does offer some form of replant or rebate deal if you use name brand Round-Up and it doesn't give satisfactory results... But the price difference between brand name and generic is almost 4:1

Yes when you decide to use Monsanto genetics you sign a contract and pay a technology fee... You are not allowed to reuse saved seed... In this case it would only work in Soybeans... Growing a hybrid corn of course results in an offspring that is not the same as it's parent and if you don't have 2 different parents then it's more or less like inbreeding and you have no idea what you are going to end up with come October...

Monsanto DOES NOT receive a portion of your sales...

Yes they take patent / contract infringement very seriously... Not to say there aren't stories out there of individuals who have been affected by wind drift in say Canola that have been in litigation for decades...

Watch the movie the farmers in there tell a different story! It is patented, they get royalties.

From Tomf
Some years back I read that Monsanto had sued some farmers whose fields were near fields of GM corn for stealing there modified corn. What was going on is that the pollen from the GM fields drifted in to the non GM fields and the resultant corn had the modified genes in them. Monsanto won the case. I could not belief the verdict. If any thing the local farmers should be able to sue Monsanto for contaminating their crops.
Exactly! :evil:

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rootsy,
None of the seed you buy in the store in packets is anything but a traditional hybrid (the offspring of 2 open pollinated or hybrid parents).
This statement is not actually true. You can buy Open Pollinated seed. My garden is 100% Open Pollinated-Organic seed. You are correct, they are not GMO's.

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slormand wrote:I can't hear the name Monsanto without wanting to go downstairs and have a few moments with my punching bag.

My Dad was a Vietnam vet--sprayed with Agent Orange, dead from cancer at 49, thanks Monsanto.

Also, this
[url]https://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/04/business/energy-environment/04weed.html?WT.mc_id=BU-SM-E-FB-SM-LIN-ROT-050410-NYT-NA&WT.mc_ev=click[/url]
This is sad, I am sorry for your loss.

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rootsy
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gixxerific wrote:
rootsy wrote:
gixxerific wrote:Oh and the Roundup resistant corn is suppose to cut down on spraying's. But Monsanto sells the farmer the corn while making him sign a contract not to save seed or they will sue you into bankruptcy (yes it happens). Than they sell you the pesticide to spray the corn. Oh yeah they also get a percentage of sales on the corn as well since they own the patent on the corn seed. They are making money hand over fist. And moving into many other variety's of vegetable they are trying to take over the world.

He who rules the food rules the world. That is more powerful than any bomb. :idea: :evil:
FYI... China exports more generic 41% Glyphosate than Monsanto sells in country... I can honestly say I don't know a single farmer that uses name brand Round-Up... I know A LOT of farmers... Most operate on well over 1000 acres... Monsanto does offer some form of replant or rebate deal if you use name brand Round-Up and it doesn't give satisfactory results... But the price difference between brand name and generic is almost 4:1

Yes when you decide to use Monsanto genetics you sign a contract and pay a technology fee... You are not allowed to reuse saved seed... In this case it would only work in Soybeans... Growing a hybrid corn of course results in an offspring that is not the same as it's parent and if you don't have 2 different parents then it's more or less like inbreeding and you have no idea what you are going to end up with come October...

Monsanto DOES NOT receive a portion of your sales...

Yes they take patent / contract infringement very seriously... Not to say there aren't stories out there of individuals who have been affected by wind drift in say Canola that have been in litigation for decades...

Watch the movie the farmers in there tell a different story! It is patented, they get royalties.

From Tomf
Some years back I read that Monsanto had sued some farmers whose fields were near fields of GM corn for stealing there modified corn. What was going on is that the pollen from the GM fields drifted in to the non GM fields and the resultant corn had the modified genes in them. Monsanto won the case. I could not belief the verdict. If any thing the local farmers should be able to sue Monsanto for contaminating their crops.
Exactly! :evil:
Don't believe everything anyone tells you. I have farmed or been around farming since the day I was born 36 1/2 years ago. I have personally signed Monsanto's seed agreement and paid their technology fee... I have put seed in the ground with their genetics... I have harvested and sold the crop. At no time have I ever had to pay "royalties" to anyone...

I fully understood what I was signing and my responsibility in doing so.

If people don't want to use the genetics then there are non GMO products they can grow. In the end it boils down to net profit... A farm is a business first and foremost and a business exists to make money for the shareholders and provide steady employment for employees...

BTW I am in no way defending Monsanto and some of their practices... Just trying to set straight some of the inaccurate information with regard to using their products.

The other 59% of the glyphosate mixture... who knows... a carrier for the active ingredient is present and H2O and?

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tomf wrote:
slormand wrote:I can't hear the name Monsanto without wanting to go downstairs and have a few moments with my punching bag.

My Dad was a Vietnam vet--sprayed with Agent Orange, dead from cancer at 49, thanks Monsanto.

Also, this
[url]https://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/04/business/energy-environment/04weed.html?WT.mc_id=BU-SM-E-FB-SM-LIN-ROT-050410-NYT-NA&WT.mc_ev=click[/url]
This is sad, I am sorry for your loss.
Thanks. It has definitely fulled my organic gardening practices.

The bottom line is that no corporation should have the right to patent life.
Stephanie

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If people don't want to use the genetics then there are non GMO products they can grow. In the end it boils down to net profit... A farm is a business first and foremost and a business exists to make money for the shareholders and provide steady employment for employees...
and I ask, at what cost :?

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slormand wrote:
tomf wrote:
slormand wrote:I can't hear the name Monsanto without wanting to go downstairs and have a few moments with my punching bag.

My Dad was a Vietnam vet--sprayed with Agent Orange, dead from cancer at 49, thanks Monsanto.

Also, this
[url]https://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/04/business/energy-environment/04weed.html?WT.mc_id=BU-SM-E-FB-SM-LIN-ROT-050410-NYT-NA&WT.mc_ev=click[/url]
This is sad, I am sorry for your loss.
Thanks. It has definitely fulled my organic gardening practices.

The bottom line is that no corporation should have the right to patent life.
Life isn't patented... The genetic modifications within the seed are patented. Right or wrong is subjective. I don't "like" it. Something is amiss in my guts with the thought of it... I no longer grow row crops and therefore do not use GMO products of any type...

The herbicide resistance it isn't naturally occurring and is a man made modification. Just like the pharmacutical industry there are a lot of resources and capital tied up in the development, proofing and marketing that the company wishes to recoup + profit before the patent runs out and competitor companies begin using the technology.

Monsanto's tactics with patent protection leave something to be desired. But you will never know the entire story.. their side, the defendant's side and the truth as just about all settled civil suits have a non disclosure agreement about the settlement and findings.

The biggest problem with agriculture today is that the profit to cost ratio is so close that profit / acre is very dilute and farmers have to operate on ever increasing acreage in order to make adequate profit / acre in order to support their families as well as have capital available to re-invest into the farm... But such is the demand of the world.. Cheap food... Cheap fuel...

Thus whenever a product or technology comes along that increases profit / acre a wise business man is going to jump on it... Such is the case with GMO products... With the size of farms today, mechanical cultivation and use of multiple chemicals is both time and cost prohibitive... Ag today is nothing like Ag of the early to mid 20th century... Family farms today are businesses with million dollar + yearly operating budgets... One piece of equipment often costs more than the average home...

Small hobby farmers and gardeners are the ones farming like it is 1940... The shear mass of a fully operational family farm running 200 + cows and 1000 acres of land is not understood by most. It's a business no different than your local supermarket or machine shop... Except that it is more labor intensive...

The fact that there are companies genetically modifying plants for certain resistances and so forth is an issue... Especially if credible, 3rd party studies and research can show without a doubt that such products are harmful to use as food... Or that the chemicals used are hazardous to people. But until then as long as there is a benefit people are going to use those products to work smarter not harder.

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One day there will be a big revolution, revelation, ( not in the biblical form),maybe it has already started. :wink:

I hope people are making educated choices.

Here is a short list of mine.

No GMO's
No Chemical fertilizers
No Exxon
No Walmart
No Kraft Foods
Trying to stay away from High Fructose Corn Syrup and Artificial Sweetners.

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Just a joke.

My corn ate my dog.

I do not know if we could feed the word with just organic food, lots of people to be feed so may be it has it's place. I feel lucky to be able to chose the food I eat and to grow my own food.

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