Are you for or against illegalization of nursery sold invasives?

For
80%
8
Against
20%
2
 
Total votes: 10
The Helpful Gardener
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Invasives

The Great State of New Hampshire has illegalized three industry darlings; Euonymus alatus (burning bush), Berberis thunbergii (Japanese barberry), and Acer platanoides (Norway maple) due to their invasiveness. Although grandfathered until 1/1/07, this is the first real steps taken to curtail nursery sales of invasives.

What's your opinion?

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I think it's important to maintain the health of native populations. I'm not an expert on ecology, but it seems to my mind that if you introduce non native species into the the environment you risk losing part of what makes your landscape so beautiful, which are the native plants and animals who depend on the.

joekey

invasives

speaking of invasives, our Government imported asian ladybugs to protect us against aphids, however, they don't show up until August/september After all aphid damage is done, Then they have no natural predators so there are trillions per acre, they fill our homes and drive us nutty All winter.....

JK sorry, just had to say that.

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Joekey, if this isn't the place to vent about gov't sponsored invasives, then there isn't anywhere on the www :lol:

The plants I named were pretty much all spread with state and federal help; no great suprise that the bugs are getting a political leg up too...

In their defense (a strange thing to find myself saying), I know my state is now being very careful to research anything they release (it took almost ten years of research before they released the beetle to go after wooly adelgid here)...

Scott
Last edited by The Helpful Gardener on Wed Jun 30, 2004 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Newt
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I'm for! I often feel disbelief when I see reputable nurseries selling things like Japanese (Hall's) honeysuckle! It really grates on me that burning bush - Euonymus alatus is planted all over our town by the landscape designers that landscape commercial properties. I live in the 'new' town of Columbia, which is a planned city that is only about 38 years old and there are several invasives that continually get planted.

Newt

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How droll; a "planned" community, largely populated by gov't employees, invaded by plants on the federal invasive list...

This was a an important enough topic for the last administration that Bill used his lame duck option to start the Invasive Species working group. The current administration has buried this and dismantled 30 years of environmental measures in less than three years. This topic deserves more recognition than it's been getting...

Newt
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Scott,

Actually there are some wonderful aspects of living here. For one thing there is a lot of planned and preserved open space that is wooded, natural and maintained to keep away invasives (go figure with what some folks plant) and miles and miles of wooded paths to walk and bike through.

There are some restrictions about what trees can be removed and for what reasons, what colors can be used on houses, how many and what size and color garish signs can be used on commercial buildings, etc. There are also strict requirements for landscaping when new neighborhoods are built. In spring this place is ablaze with flowering trees all over the streets and lining sidewalks. It's a very pretty place to live.

It does have it's drawbacks and it is now too crowded for me. I've lived here for 31 years and have watched it grow in leaps and bounds. I'm ready to go live in the woods!

https://www.therousecompany.com/communities/columbia.htm

Newt

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I know Columbia a little; I used to sell Metzler's Garden Center when that was my territory. Very nice but a little Stepford, and where are the stores and gas stations? I could never find them and usually ended up leaving town to get anything. But you're right it's very nice...

Newt
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Scott,
You may be saddened to know that Metzlers closed it's doors two weeks ago!! They opened a place in Eldersburg and the land will be developed into 12 houses!! "The times they are a changin!"

Newt

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Wow. So who's the big garden center for your area now? Behnkes? I can't see them bailing out anytime soon...

Newt
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There is a garden center that was built in Clarksville called River Hill. If you haven't been here in the last 5 years, your eyes would pop out of your head. Clarksville is a big booming town now. Like I said, I'm ready to head to the woods! Behnke's now has 3 locations - Largo, Potomac and Beltsville. Great looking plants at a premium price, but well cared for. It's a 30 minute ride for me to the closest in Beltsville.

Newt

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I know River Hill from when they were just starting out and I knew then it would be nice; the owners are pretty well known landscapers and it would have been unlike them to do less than a bang-up job...

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I didn't know who owns River Hill, but I did know they were supposed to be 'locals'. They've done a lovely job and have a sizable business going on there. Now with Metzlers closed, they probably will have to scramble to keep up. Lots of gardeners and well landscaped homes in the area.

If you're familiar with the area (I've been here for 32 years), I was driving through the village of Owen Brown today and noted that whoever did the landscaping of that village, and it's public lands, did a nice job now that it has matured. I do feel badly though, when I see how the caretakers pile mulch up around the trunks of trees! Several of the cherries are starting to show major signs of decline from being smothered at the base.

Newt

Sara B
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Hi, I have recently become quite interested in native plants. There was so much I was not aware of. I am sure that is true of most people, they plant what they like and often don't even know how invasive or harmful it can be. I am working on changing all of my flower beds to native plants and to encouraging butterflies, birds and other wildlife. Well, Newt, I practically live in the woods now. It is literally at my back door but I wish I could move into the middle of it . :)

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Hey Sara,

I'm a big fan of native plants myself and have made lots fo friends in the plant world through them. Check out [url]https://www.newfs.org/[/url], the home page for the New England Wild Flower Society (Bill Cullina , their propagator, is the best guy in the country for native plants; check out his two books (in our book listing)). It's a great site and you'll learn lots (like where to get natives in your area)...

Scott

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Lots of views; no opinions?

Lets hear it, people! We encourage a diverse range of views here; 222 viewers and only 5 votes, all for illegalizing invasives. Is there no one who is clinging to their burning bush? Hugging their barberry? (Ouch!) I am happy to give equal time to opposing viewpoints...

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Not sure if you had a particular type of plant in mind when you said "invasives" but, two invasive plants that I love are mint and Jerusalem artichokes. JA's are hard enough to come across as it is and if it were illegal for Nurseries to sell them, it would be a major pain in my side.
As far as invasive plants like Canola. Well, I think it remains to the context of who is buying them and where they are planting them. My 4th cousin has four sections of wheat, barley, Canola, peas, Flax and so on and doesn't have a problem when rotating and his farmland has been used by the family since the 1860's. In fact, my great great great great grandfather was a scout in the Riel Rebellion. Anyway, that is beside the point.
90 percent of Canada's natural grasslands are actually located in BC and 2 percent of BC is natural Grassland. If you take those simple statistics into consideration, invasive Canola really only affects farmland and not natural ecosystems so..... well, I leave the decision u to you. But, I say pick your battles.

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Two dissenters on the poll but no dissenting posts.

Really folks, this is a forum for discussion of the subject; I'd like to hear why as all sides of this subject should be discussed openly. Y'all know my opinion here, but I also feel we need to work with the industry so no one take a financial bath. New Hampshire gave three years notice to allow nurseries to get out of the stock they now hold, but I know we sart cutting and sticking here five years ahead. What's the happy medium?

Scott

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Against.... but only for the Burning Bush.....I need all the plant material I cant get up here in AK...and it grows up here and it looks pretty so thats the only reason, I guess I will be for it for you guys but up here, its not as big of deal.

Brunkers

opabinia51
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Well, as far as the illegalization of foreign invasives, I'm for it. I have but one example: Skotch Broom. Apparently all of the Broom on Vancouver Island (and it is everywhere) was either started from two seeds or two plants. I'm not sure which.
Broom currently chokes out the natural Flora and destroys habitat for local Fauna. Their shouldn't really need to be a law against planting invasive species of plants, people should just use common sense. If you live in Scotland and you want to move to North America, for god sakes DON"T bring plants from Scotland to North America and plant them around everywhere. :roll: It's just common sense.

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Brunkers and Opa raise a good point. The USDA put Imperata on the Invasives list because of the plants weediness in the South; I have never seen a big issue up here. The invasive issue needs to be handled at the state, not federal level...

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Thanks for the vote Sarah, but can you say why you are against illegalization of these plants? We are interested to hear the other viewpoint...

Scott

wingdesigner
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commercial selling of invasives

Well, folks, seeing what purple loostrife is doing to our 'Up North" country; the heartwrenching decimation of forests by imported pests, etc., etc., I say "yes", I am dismayed that catalogs push the already overplanted in place of sturdier natives or "heirlooms". How long before we lose our maples, beeches, birches, firs, etc., to the next undiscovered pest? (Rhetorical question--no need to answer). Personally, any plant beginning with the letter "L" is off my list. Lysmachia, Loostrife (well, Liatris can stay...), you get the picture. All seem to take over anything in their way.

I'm working on some plans for mostly sandy soil (a term used loosely) and find that my available options are limited, according to the federal and state invasive/noxious (love that word!) lists. Well, at least I have a little time before I can work out in the yard, so I can keep hunting.

Happy Gardening,

Wingdesigner
Happy Gardening,
Wing

opabinia51
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Yes, all very valid commments. It is interesting how people strive to grow plants in areas where the plants are not native. Case in point; Impatients. In the US and Canada people work incredibly hard to try and grow impatients in their gardens but, in Costa Rica they grow as a weed. Why? Why? Why? Be happy with what you have and let it be.
Though, I am somewhat of a hippocrate saying this because I am planting eggplant in my garden this year and I'm not even sure if Solidago and angellica are native. I guess the key is: Everything in moderation and do your research. If you know a plant is invasive, don't plant it, be a part of the solution not a part of the problem.
Last edited by opabinia51 on Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Wing, sandplain prairie is the most endangered ecotype in the U.S. so you can do a great deal of good by using those native plants that need those conditions to grow and prosper (don't worry there are some pretty ones too! :lol: )

Rather than try and give you a list of prairie plants (not a specialty) I will refer you to my friend Neill Diboll at Prairie Nursery. He has a mix for whatever area you'd like, from dry shade to tall grass prairie to no-mow lawn. Meadow and prairie are incredibly productive ecosystems that are as low-maintenance as gardening gets, and they're beautiful to boot...

Check out Prairie Nursery at [url]https://www.prairienursery.com[/url] or call at 800-476-9453 for a catalog. Neill's one of the great native garden proponents out there; been doing it long before it was cool and we are happy to send you his way; tell him The Helpful Gardener sent ya! :D

Scott

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Hey Opa,

We're posting all over each other here. :D Archangel is eurotrash and a nasty invasive here in Connecticut (made our state list). Don't go there my friend...

HG

P.S. Solidago is as native as it gets in North America but find out what grows in your neck of the woods (Another chance to plug my buddy Wild Bill Cullina's books;Wildflowers and Native Trees, Shrubs and Vines, I'll take it... :lol: Really great books benefiting the oldest native plant society in the Americas)

HG

opabinia51
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Yes the actual full name of the plant is Solidago canadensis and I am acquiring it from my local organic nursery so, come to think of it, she is as anal as it gets about that stuff.

Archangel????? Did I put a typo up there? I have angellica but, I don't know the species. Just the genus. It sure likes the soil in my veg garden.

wingdesigner
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invasives/sand prairie in MI

Scott, way (well, maybe not way) ahead of you--already got my catalog and will be making suggestions from it. I hope to get up there this Spring to check out any ephemerals that may be peeking up to say "hi"; and make a list of what I see already. This is also the place with the mound septic system, swale, and fluctuating lake levels. Lots of challenges. Thanks for the suggestion, though; keep 'em comin'!

Happy Gardening.

Wingdesigner

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Angelica archangelica is the beastie I speak of Opa. Done a number on one of my favorite camping areas...BAD :evil:

I have never been to Prairie Nursery (indeed all my time in Wisconsin involves train trips from boot camp to avoid a 21 yr old drinking limit in Illinois) so I will have to live vicariously. I have, however, met Neill a few times and talked on the phone a few more, so please tell him I said howdy if you see him. He's one of my heroes in the native plant world and actually got to study with Aldo Leopold, whom I consider the true father of the American ecological movement and there ain't NOBODY out there who knows more about building a prairie from scratch (check out the website for speaking dates; he talks around there a lot).

I still say prairie is the way to go for that job; glad to see you agree :D

Scott

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