Identification help needed

[frogesque]

I had several of these turn up in some seed trays (my own unsterilised compost) and howked most of them out as weeds but one I kept because I was curious about the small, very dark purple spots on the leaves. It is now in a deep 5" pot and is about 3ft tall. with a stem about 3/4" dia. that has the same dark purple spots and tinge to it as the flower buds.

It seems tollerant of full or part sun but likes plenty of water. The flowers (about 1.5" across) are short lived, 2 days at most but there has been a succesion since June and it's still going strong. Seed pods are enclosed in 5 papery sepals which are retained after the flower drops. Seed capsuals are rounded and about the size of a smallish grape. I'm reluctant to detach one before its ripe which I don't think they are yet. I'm assuming its an annual. It grows outside, temperate climate, 80F max this year.

I've searched through my RHS Encyclopedia with no luck so far.

Ok folks - so what is it?

[img]https://frogesque.com/30aug05/flower1.jpg[/img]

[img]https://frogesque.com/30aug05/flower2.jpg[/img]

[img]https://frogesque.com/30aug05/flower3.jpg[/img]

[img]https://frogesque.com/30aug05/flower4.jpg[/img]

[The Helpful Gardener]

Can't nail it down, but it looks like nightshade family, possibly a Solanum (huge genus, includes potatoes, eggplants and a few tomato types. Searched that name, and while I found some similars, no matches.

Anyone else for a crack?

Scott

[Grey]

I can't find it either, but it is attractive. Long as it doesn't turn out to be invasive, that long bloom time is a definite benefit!

[opabinia51]

Once again, I hate to be a stickler but, the family is Solanacea and some of the genera in the family are solanum but, the genus is not the huge thing, the family is.

The family (Solanaceae) contains about 85 genera and 2800 species.

The genus Solanum includes such species as:

Solanum aviculare
Solanum crispum
Solanum hindsianum (Blue Solanum Shrub)
Solanum jasminoides (Potato vine)
Solanum muricatum (Pepino)
Solanum pseudocapsicum (Jerusalem Cherry)
Solanum seaforthianum (Brazilian Nightshade)
Solanum sessiliflorum (Naranjilla)
Solanum wendlandii (Costa Rican Nightshade)
Solanum wenlandii (Costa Rican Nightshade)
Solanum xantii
Solanum arecunarum synonym of Solanum sessiliflorum (Naranjilla)
Solanum betaceum synonym of Cyphomandra betacea (Tree Tomato, Tamarillo)
Solanum georgicum synonym of Solanum sessiliflorum (Naranjilla)
Solanum laciniatum synonym of Solanum aviculare
Solanum rantonnei synonym of Lycianthes rantonnei (Paraguay Nightshade, Blue Potato Bush)
Solanum rantonnetii synonym of Lycianthes rantonnei (Paraguay Nightshade, Blue Potato Bush)
Solanum topiro synonym of Solanum sessiliflorum (Naranjilla)

Though the leaves and flower shape do make me think of Solanaceae. Try emailing your photographs to a local Herbarium.

[grandpasrose]

Do you think Solanum? Because I was leaning more towards dahlia because of the foliage growth. Just trying to identify the flower. Don't worry Frogesque, we're on the case!!!
VAL

[frogesque]

Thanks for all the interest. One suggestion which I'm still checking out is that it may be a [url=https://davesgarden.com/pf/go/1979]Cape Gooseberry: Physalis peruviana[/url]. The flower colour is wrong though so it's possibly a hybrid - any thoughts?

[grandpasrose]

I don't think that's it. If you notice, the leaves on the gooseberry are fuzzy, and yours is quite smooth and glossy. Also yours is about 3 feet tall, and the gooseberry is 18-24 inches.
However, is this how your plant is showing it's seed? - in a similar pod?
We'll keep looking - never fear!
VAL

[opabinia51]

I'll see if I can forward the picture to my local Herbarium (Two buildings over). They'll know what it is.

[frogesque]

I'll see if I can forward the picture to my local Herbarium (Two buildings over). They'll know what it is.

That's a very kind offer - thanks

I can take more photos if required but it wouldn't be 'till Monday

[The Helpful Gardener]

More foliage shots would be great and fruit would help too...

Opa, be a stickler WHENEVER I'm screwing up; you are most correct on the scientific nomenclature

Scott

[frogesque]

More foliage shots would be great and fruit would help too...

Opa, be a stickler WHENEVER I'm screwing up; you are most correct on the scientific nomenclature

Scott

Ok, managed some more photos today in full sunlight.

There were 7 flowers on it this morning from 1.5" across to this fully open beauty at 2.5"

[img]https://frogesque.com/12sep05/flower.jpg[/img]


This is the full plant:

[img]https://frogesque.com/12sep05/plant.jpg[/img]


Flower bud:

[img]https://frogesque.com/12sep05/flowerbud.jpg[/img]


Fruit body:

[img]https://frogesque.com/12sep05/fruit.jpg[/img]

[img]https://frogesque.com/12sep05/fruit1.jpg[/img]

[img]https://frogesque.com/12sep05/fruit4.jpg[/img]


With the papery calyx pushed back showing the berry inside:

[img]https://frogesque.com/12sep05/fruit3.jpg[/img]


Leaf:

[img]https://frogesque.com/12sep05/leaf.jpg[/img]

Topside:

[img]https://frogesque.com/12sep05/leaf1.jpg[/img]

Underside:

[img]https://frogesque.com/12sep05/leaf2.jpg[/img]

Finally the stems which are squarish and like polished ebony, the plant is totally hairless.

[img]https://frogesque.com/12sep05/stem.jpg[/img]

[opabinia51]

Hi, I haven't heard back from the Herbarium yet. I'm actually applying for a job with them today though so, should I get the job; it'll be much quicker to get a reply. (I already know most of the people in the Herbarium, I think I'll drop by there after my next class to see if they have an answer.)

Anyway, I'm on the case!

Oh and Scott, don't worry! I'll continue to be be a stickler for any mistakes made when it comes to misuse of biological, chemical or physical terminology. I just like to put my phrase of "I hate to be a stickler" in.

[frogesque]

OK! Finally I think I have it (suggested by someone else on another site - worldwide interest on this one!)

[url=https://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/27500.html/]Shoofly Plant, Apple of Peru 'Black Pod', Nicandra physalodes[/url]

I've mixed feelings about it as it's variously listed as highly poisonous to mildly toxic. Its an annual that also self seeds readily and is given as an invasive weed if not keept on top of, though it's readily identified by the puple leafspots (even on the first set of true leaves) and it's easily pulled up.

It possibly also explains another little mystery - the almost total absence of whitefly in the greenhouse this year though they are definitely about in the garden. Last year the tomatoes were plagued with 'em! One site (which unfortunately I've lost) suggested using it as a companion plant to control the pests, hence the common name shoofly plant, it initially turned up in the greenhouse and since late spring this plant has been kept outside but near it. It's now back inside

This plant might be worth experimenting with providing children and pets can be kept away from it untill we know a bit more about its toxicity.

Any and all comments welcome.

[grandpasrose]

FINALLY!!!!!!!!!! I am so glad you found out what this is!
I have spent quite a bit of time going through sites over the last little while when I have time, trying to find this one for you. I did look at Shoofly (a different variety) and decided that wasn't it. I guess if I had just stayed on that track, I might have found it. Well another mystery solved! Whew! Thanks for letting us know so we weren't forever wondering what that plant ever was!!!
VAL