alisios
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Not Chicken Grit - but Pigeon grit?

Hello - this might be a really stupid question...

Still searching for soil possibilities - I was going all around town to look for chicken grit and finally I found something called "Pigeon" grit - :shock: No one had "chicken" grit (just crushed oyster shells)

okay then - does anyone know what the heck the difference is in Pigeon grit as opposed to chicken grit? Here's a pic of the Pigeon grit:

[img]https://www.robertcory.com/webdata/pigeongrit.jpg[/img]

This looks like it has some oyster shells in there too... Does this look like the stuff people are using as a soil component?

I like the color... :D

TIA

ps - I have to admit that I have never thrown grit to a chicken - does it show? :P
Last edited by alisios on Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

yakuzumo
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To tell you the truth, Ive never heard of that.

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Gnome
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alisios,

Although I've seen chicken grit on many lists of potential components I have never used this material. I have some reservations about the material you've shown. It seems very smooth, not at all porous. I turned up this photo of granite chicken grit on Google:
[img]https://img.alibaba.com/photo/11081194/Chicken_Grit_Granite_Grit_Or_Chips_Regular_Bulk_Supply.jpg[/img]

I take it you are having trouble locating proper inorganic components. I am very happy with lava rock. Turface is also a good component but I have trouble locating it locally. You've probably already seen this but it has been updated recently.
[url]https://www.bonsai4me.com/Basics/Basicscatlitter.htm[/url]
BTW, I've also seen reference to swimming pool filter sand, apparently it comes in different sizes.

Norm

opabinia51
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I'm sure that people have grown their bonsai in various rock based soils for a long time but, my thoughts are this:

With small rocks and other water insoluble macrominerals there are very little or no sites for organic and inorganic nutrients or even water to bond to and your tree would then be totally at your mercy for providing it with nutrients, water, there would be no chance for mycorhizal associations with roots and so on.

Now I can't really picture using this as soil, just a top layer for your tree on top of the soil. Someone please explain this to me.

constantstaticx3
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Gnome,

If you are willing to have the turface shipped you can try here.
https://www.shadysidebonsai.com/id17.html
They are located in Glen Rock, PA so shipping may not cost much since you live in PA. I bought a giant 50lb bag from them that I have barely put a dent in. They also have the lava rock in which you like.

Tom

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Tom,

Thanks for the tip. The last time I purchased Turface the shipping was as much as the material so I found another material at a local landscape supply. They had Haydite, but last year they decided not to carry it any longer so I'm back to searching again. I still have some Haydite leftover so I think I may be OK this year.

Norm

constantstaticx3
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Gnome,

I know what you mean with shipping, but maybe you could see how close they are to you and drive to them? I'd love to do it myself. The only reason I was able to buy from them is because he offered to deliver it to me himself for no charge. He said he would be passing by my way anyway.

Tom

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Opa,
Now I can't really picture using this as soil, just a top layer for your tree on top of the soil. Someone please explain this to me.
I don't think the intention was to use this as a standalone material but as a component of a mixture. I do agree though that this material, being so polished, lacks the texture that other materials would provide. The porous nature of lava rock is obvious. Even fired clay has numerous, albeit smaller, cracks and fissures that aid in water and nutrient retention.
your tree would then be totally at your mercy for providing it with nutrients, water,
Well, they are anyway but I understand your point that this material, if used neat, would make fertilization more of an issue. As far as water, the regular and polished nature of this material would make for a fairly dense medium. This would, due to its adhesive nature, retain water. More worrisome, to my mind, would be the exclusion of oxygen. If used as a component though I think these issues would not be a great concern, but there are better choices.

Norm

ynot
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Just a hit and run, Truck audio overhaul today LOUD=:-)

opabinia51 wrote:I'm sure that people have grown their bonsai in various rock based soils for a long time but, my thoughts are this:

With small rocks and other water insoluble macrominerals there are very little or no sites for organic and inorganic nutrients or even water to bond to and your tree would then be totally at your mercy for providing it with nutrients, water, there would be no chance for mycorhizal associations with roots and so on.

Now I can't really picture using this as soil, just a top layer for your tree on top of the soil. Someone please explain this to me.
Asked and answered already, See [url=https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3057&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15]here.[/url]

In fact... If you could get back to the questions asked wrt why you see specific attributes as negative wrt bonsai soil that are still awaiting clarification at the bottom of the first page I would appreciate it as it's been a while you know. :lol:

As mentioned in the thread above, Perhaps you could show us examples of the root growth you are getting with your preferred soil mix? Before and after pictures [Possibly of [url=https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=318&highlight=akadama]the cedars mentioned here[/url]] would be excellent as they have several years of growth going. :D.

I notice that Scott [THG] mentions that he sifts everything for the appropriate particle size in that thread. 8) :D.
The Helpful Gardener wrote:I would probably use the akadama along with an appropriate amount of organic matter. It really depends on granule size; I screen everything so I am able to choose appropriate sizes for where in the pot I am filling and the size pot I am using.

Quick note; akadama is considered a good soil for conifers so it should be perfect for your cedar...

Scott
ynot

opabinia51
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Hi ynot,

Okay, so my thoughts on the Akadama topic would be that the fertilizer regime would add nutrients to the soil for the the tree that are soluble and would be held in the soil better than that of a sand based soil or even a pigeon or chicken grit. So using clay or Akadama along with organics would make a more stable soil for trees.

I don't personally use clay or akadama but, the theory is sound. However, using the soil mix that I use which is potting soil, manure and compost the nutrients are already in the soil along with a healthy environment of soil micro and macro fauna.

I don't have any pictures to show you of my roots unfortunately.

Though, if I think to I may take some pictures the next time that I pot up my trees.

And if I haven't responded to your posts or threads in a while please pm me as I have many threads to answer on the website. During that discussion some months ago, we acquired Norm as a new moderator and I stoppped coming by this forum as often because I could then spend more time addressing the other fori.

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