Bonsai identification-(Chinese Elm)

[Wintermute]

Hello,

Recently a friend of mine gave me his bonsai to take care of as he's pretty feckless about them and was concerned he was killing it. I don't know quite why he gave it to me, I'm equally clueless (the only other bonsai I had was years ago and it died a swift death) but I like trees, so maybe that makes me more qualified somehow.

About the tree: he bought it from a one-time-only house plant sale at a student Union for about ...£20. So already highly dodgy! According to the vendor the tree is ten years old, and has been grown in Holland and imported over to the UK (so it's probably a mass-produced tree). I don't really know much about bonsai but I thought ...£20 sounded pretty cheap for a ten-year tree. Despite the dubious-sounding details, the tree seems to be in quite good condition considering it's mass produced. My friend had the tree for about a month before he gave it to me, and I've had it for roughly a week.

The first problem is, I'm not really sure what type of tree it is. The label that came with the tree has no information about it, only the bonsai 'brand', which is Herbae Optimae Formae. Judging from the other pictures in the Gallery I've seen, I think it could be a Chinese Elm. Can anyone confirm this?

Also, I'm not too sure about the conditions it's been kept in, but it seems to be shedding leaves pretty rapidly. I don't know if this is part of the tree's natural cycle given the time of year or if it's due to bad watering/keeping. At first my friend watered it by submerging it for about thirty minutes every other day - from the so-called expert vendor's 'advice' - but shortly after that it started shedding leaves pretty drastically. I've read that it's a very bad way to water, so since he gave it to me I've let it dry out a bit and watered it once from the top-down with some feed.

I've also noticed that a lot of the leaves tend to go yellowish, particularly around the veins, before they fall off. I've been told this could be either down to temperature or watering? I live in a third-floor attic room with a skylight, and it's pretty cool and light most of the time. Are these ok conditions? Also, what about pruning? I think it's in need of it, but I'm reluctant to try it for fear of cutting off new leaves.

I've attached some pictures. Sorry the quality isn't great.

Main tree after I watered it
[img]https://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd225/Papasma/DSC01681.jpg[/img]

Another one
[img]https://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd225/Papasma/DSC01683.jpg[/img]

Close up of the leaves
[img]https://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd225/Papasma/DSC01687.jpg[/img]

Cheers and apologies for the newbie questions.

[moulman]

I think what you have is Ulmus parvifolia (Chinese Elm).

If it has been submerged every other day, that is way too much water. Let it dry some before giving it more.

Here's a link to care.......

https://www.bonsai4me.com/SpeciesGuide/Ulmus.html

[webmaster]

Here's an article by Scott Reil, the original Helpful Gardner, about [url=https://www.helpfulgardener.com/bonsai/03/care.html]how to water bonsai[/url].

[ynot]

I think what you have is Ulmus parvifolia (Chinese Elm).

If it has been submerged every other day, that is way too much water. Let it dry some before giving it more.

I agree completely.

Here's a link to care.......

https://www.bonsai4me.com/SpeciesGuide/Ulmus.html

Be sure to read the other articles available from the link at the top of the bonsai4me home page, You will find a wealth of information available there.

ynot

[Wintermute]

Awesome, thanks for the responses. I'll check out the links when I get home from work. Cheers.

I hope that permanent damage hasn't been done via overwatering. It seems that a tree can die but not show the signs for weeks. And is some degree of leaf loss normal? I saw a picture of an elm which had no leaf cover at all ([url]https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3544[/url]).

[Gnome]

Wintermute,

Hello and welcome to the forum. I agree with your identification as well as your assessment that this tree is likely a mass produced bonsai. Most likely from china, it has the typical S bends in the trunk but this one is not as bad as some I have seen. In fact it is virtually identical to mine before I began this years drastic work.

You mentioned my tree being entirely devoid of leaves. It must be noted that the picture that I assume you are referring to was taken in late winter when the tree was still in a dormant state. I allow mine to experience a full dormancy, which yours will not experience in your apartment. This tree is a sub-tropical and "cool" temperatures are right up its alley, so to speak. Actual winter conditions are required to induce dormancy so I don't think that a cool apartment is causing your problem.

From the history of this tree and from the little I can see of the soil I would venture to guess that this tree is still in the same soil it was imported in, which is to say horrible. Often these trees are still in the clay soil from the growing fields in China. I suspect that a re-potting is required, the only question is when.

Watering every other day with that kind of soil all but convinces me that it has been over-watered. It is good that you have realized this and become more prudent. Low light levels may also be at play here. What you perceive as "light" may in fact be rather dim to a tree.

Even though your tree is marketed as an indoor tree I feel that this is not the best way to handle Chinese Elms. I agree with what Alex said in another current thread that it will be much more vigorous if allowed to go dormant. Plan on getting this tree outside next spring if you are able, it should then remain so except perhaps for storage during the dead of winter.

Norm

[alexinoklahoma]

I agree with all that's been said, fwiw. That tree has *lots* of potential, but it sure needs better soil, a good rest (dormancy, per se), and then gotten back on a 'typical' elm's schedule. Being indoors is kind of anti-genetic for 'em, IMO, but doable for short periods if willing to pay the price for such.

I bet that this tree will *look* worse before it gets better (leaf drop and/or yellowing leaves), so don't freak if so. A rule-of-thumb with elms is that green & crispy leaves are *bad*, while yellowing/browning crisping leaves are part of natural process, and not wholly worrisome by itself - just something to expect in this situation if/when it starts 'going to sleep'. Go with the flow of the seasons and it'll get back on track eventually (by mid-summer next year probably?)... Allow time for the tissues to 'recharge' - just like a person needs rest now and then, so do deciduous trees I bet this tree will literally explode with new growths after resting, so get ready to prune/pinch away for 'pad' development eventually... I'd let it go dormant, and then repot when temps warm enough (Springtime-ish) to allow buds to swell just before leaf-break. Tree will *love* having root-room and some fresh air down there, I guarantee ya *that*!

Seems like soooo many Chinese 'imports' are bad nowadays, 'eh?! Even the soil is bad, LOL! j / k

HTH,
Alex