artisanoo
Senior Member
Posts: 117
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:53 am

scheff. arboricola (hawaiian umbrella)-when to cutback/repot

hi,
background:
I have a scheff growing in a pot (about 5 inches square) for alittle over a year. I got it as an already rooted cutting so I don't know how long it was in the pot before then.
the roots are all over the place (peeking out the drain holes , and some visible above the soil now. I can see one or two snaking around the pot border, though that might just be because there is some surface rootage forming now as well). but I don't think it is really root-bound yet, since when I put some pressure to pull it upwards out of the pot, it still has some give to it (ie I cant lift it without probably damaging the roots)


question:
I would like to cut it back to encourage some branching (it has been growing well but only as one stem so far). is it ok to just cut it, knowing that within a year I may need to repot it or prune the roots?
should these things be done close together?
ive read in other places that if cutting back, roots should be left alone for a while, so I don't want to put this tree into a bad situation by hacking it down and then having it go rootbound when it would be too stressful to repot it.

maybe it doesnt even need a repot soon at all, but I'm not sure how to tell, aside from the 'pull' test.

any information on cutting back / repotting this species would be great - I have been taking care of it for a while but havent done anything major so idont want to do anything stupid to it..


Oh, also - I think it is in one of its 'rest-periods' , it recently went through one of its growth spurts and for now is slowed down. would it be better to cut now, or during a spurt?
Last edited by artisanoo on Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.

arboricola
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Posts: 224
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 5:07 pm
Location: Minnesota zone 4

Art;
A photo would really help here. Where is the tree growing? How much light is it getting? How tall is it?

Phil...

artisanoo
Senior Member
Posts: 117
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:53 am

arboricola wrote:Art;
A photo would really help here. Where is the tree growing? How much light is it getting? How tall is it?

Phil...
sorry I didnt post a picture of it, I am not home and wont be able to do that for a while - ill try as soon as I can.

as far as your questions -
it is growing indoors, under a 4 foot fluorescent light( 40watt if I remember), pretty close to the bulb - it has been under that kind of light for all the time I have had it. the room gets some direct sunlight but only in the morning , that is why I have the supplemental light. the light is on for 16 hours a day by timer (5 am to 9 pm).

I want to eventually replace the single bulb with 2 bulbs

id say the plant is roughly 9- 10 inches from the top of the soil.

if there is any other information about my plant specifically that you would need just let me know and I will do my best. I will also try to get some pictures as soon as I can.

arboricola
Senior Member
Posts: 224
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 5:07 pm
Location: Minnesota zone 4

Art;

Sounds like you have everything in place and a happy, healthy tree.
I wouldn't be too concerned about repoting right now. Let's have a look at a photo and maybe I can help you with the pruning.

Phil...

artisanoo
Senior Member
Posts: 117
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:53 am

arboricola wrote:Art;

Sounds like you have everything in place and a happy, healthy tree.
I wouldn't be too concerned about repoting right now. Let's have a look at a photo and maybe I can help you with the pruning.

Phil...
sounds good - so I don't have to worry about the occaisional root that pops up through the soil?

in any case I will try and get the photo as soon as possible so we can look at it together.

one quick side question - if it is not having an active growth period, does it not require any fertilizer? (to be continued when it begins again)

arboricola
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Posts: 224
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 5:07 pm
Location: Minnesota zone 4

Art;

I would cut back on the fertilizer to about once every 3 weeks while it's resting and don't worry about the surface roots for now.

Phil...

artisanoo
Senior Member
Posts: 117
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:53 am

arboricola wrote:Art;

I would cut back on the fertilizer to about once every 3 weeks while it's resting and don't worry about the surface roots for now.

Phil...
Thanks for the info - how often do you fertilize during growth?

also, do you happen to have any pictures of your tropical trees? I always like to see pics from people who seem to know what they are talking about (plus I like tropical trees :) )

artisanoo
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Posts: 117
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:53 am

hey arb (or anyone)
I have a problem with my camera (new computer - having problem installing drivers etc.) but I had a question to ask in the meantime before I can get some pictures...

regarding this type of tree, if the overall height is roughly where I want it (including the foliage at the top), does it generally make more sense to cut back and let it regrow, or to partially defoliate and let it branch out from the stem that is already there?

if I was to cut, to induce some taper, does this tree thicken quickly ( in relation to how fast it grows vertically) ?

arboricola
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Posts: 224
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 5:07 pm
Location: Minnesota zone 4

Hi Art;
Sounds like you have a plan. Here's few things that may help.

Cutting it back to about 6" would be better. Make the cut about a ½ inch above a leaf. Seal the cut with petroleum jelly to keep it from drying out.
Pot the cutting in your favorite mix, dampen, and cover with a baggie. In 4-5 weeks you'll have another tree. Now for the leaves. You can remove a few of the oldest leaves or remove all of them. Snip the leaves off leaving a ¼ inch of stem left. Don't pull them off. Riase the humidity around the tree if you can and care for it as you've been doing.

Keep us posted as to what you're doing and good luck.

Phil...

artisanoo
Senior Member
Posts: 117
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:53 am

arboricola wrote:Hi Art;
Sounds like you have a plan. Here's few things that may help.

Cutting it back to about 6" would be better. Make the cut about a ½ inch above a leaf. Seal the cut with petroleum jelly to keep it from drying out.
Pot the cutting in your favorite mix, dampen, and cover with a baggie. In 4-5 weeks you'll have another tree. Now for the leaves. You can remove a few of the oldest leaves or remove all of them. Snip the leaves off leaving a ¼ inch of stem left. Don't pull them off. Riase the humidity around the tree if you can and care for it as you've been doing.

Keep us posted as to what you're doing and good luck.

Phil...
I will, definitely - one question though - when you describe how to remove and what to remove, as far as folaige, are you refering to the cutting or the main tree? and in either case, what is the benefit of removing some vs all?

as far as raising humidity, I tend to give it a few sprays with a mister in the morning before work, and when I get home (maybe before bed too)
is that ok?

arboricola
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Posts: 224
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 5:07 pm
Location: Minnesota zone 4

Art;

Both the cutting, what you have left when you reduce the tree, and the main stem.

If you remove all the leaves a bud will break where the leaves were. You can then select the ones you want to keep and remove the ones you don't want.

Do you have a humidity tray under the tree? Misting only helps for short time.

Phil...

artisanoo
Senior Member
Posts: 117
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:53 am

arboricola wrote:Art;

Both the cutting, what you have left when you reduce the tree, and the main stem.

If you remove all the leaves a bud will break where the leaves were. You can then select the ones you want to keep and remove the ones you don't want.

Do you have a humidity tray under the tree? Misting only helps for short time.

Phil...
I don't have a tray but I have a few plants near each other, which I tend to keep moist like that. sinc ei don't have a tray, I sometimes put some water cups as well - :oops:

I have been getting a few above ground roots on this and the ficuses so I guess its doing something.

ill have a better look at the tree tonight and tree to get those pictures this week -

thanks for the help

oh and ps, just remembered I don't have soil - should I get some stuff from home depot and put something simple together (I got some advice from other threads on this, but I'm not sure if that applies to tropicals, since the topic there was pine) or buy pre made

arboricola
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Posts: 224
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 5:07 pm
Location: Minnesota zone 4

Art;

Get a small bag of potting soil and a pound of aqurium gavel. wash the gravel well. mix 50/50, potting soil/gravel. That will give you a loose well draining mix for rooting the cutting. Remember to keep damp, not wet.

Phil...

artisanoo
Senior Member
Posts: 117
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:53 am

arboricola wrote:Art;

Get a small bag of potting soil and a pound of aqurium gavel. wash the gravel well. mix 50/50, potting soil/gravel. That will give you a loose well draining mix for rooting the cutting. Remember to keep damp, not wet.

Phil...
thanks - is that something I can use longterm is that just for rooting things?

arboricola
Senior Member
Posts: 224
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 5:07 pm
Location: Minnesota zone 4

Art;
It would be fine for bonsai. I use a 50/25/25 mix, Miracle-Gro/aqurium gravel(well washed)/bird gravel(parakeet gravel). It drains well, dosen't compact and has good water retention. Cost about $10 for 16 quarts.

Phil...

alexinoklahoma
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Posts: 273
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:21 am
Location: Central Oklahoma

On soil: I use a mix of about 4-4-2 (by 'handfuls' usually, LOL) of medium bark /mulch' pieces, perlite, and 'cactus soil' (which is peat-based, but NOT sphagnum - big difference, fwiw, in aount of sogginess possible) The cuttings love it post-rooting and it was air-pruning roots out bottom hole of a medium size pot (little smaller than trade-gallon). Basically anything like described will work.

My opinion on 'Miracle-Gro soil' is bad, bad, bad as that soil rotted roots of 3 'tropicals' of mine one year after just one watering - *never* dried :( I won't go near that water-retention stuff "that feeds for at least 3 months", but to each their own. Its *very* water retentive if I am thinking of the same soil; its spendy, too, IMO. Any soil that is primarily clay-based can quickly cause unseen probs. It kind of surprised me that my scheffs prefer very airy soil as compared to what most people go with -> the 'thicker' mix that holds a lot more water on average (and much less gas-exchanging through soil media, too). I tried it, and the plants *all* liked it, as the saying goes...

Alex

arboricola
Senior Member
Posts: 224
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 5:07 pm
Location: Minnesota zone 4

Alex;

Sounds like your mix is working well for you. I been using a 50/50 potting soil/ gravel, grit mix for the past 25+ years with good sucess. As the saying goes, you ask 10 bonsai growers about soil mix and you get 10 different answers. My mix is just the starting point. You have to do a perk and dry test and make adjustments for your growing conditions and watering habits.
Going to try your mix with the next cuttings.

Phil...

alexinoklahoma
Senior Member
Posts: 273
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:21 am
Location: Central Oklahoma

I know there's a wide range of 'acceptable', and scheff can even live in concretish old-dirt as I have one that I am scared to even try and remove from what is within it's roots, LOL (was given to me two yrs ago, fwiw). It hasn't put out any new growth in almost 6 months, but its a throw-away plant anyways. I jsut rarely can toss a plant of any type ;)

I totally hate that 'Miracle-Gro' water-retentive 'specialty' soil. Use of it practically guarantees a non-experienced user will likely rot roots with use-as-directed, and most folk pour fert into plants irregadless of pre-fert conditions - sure ya know what I am saying. Certainly nothing against how you do things, arboicola - but I wanted to throw some caution into the use of such soil to less-experienced/knowledgable users/readers here :)

It really, really surprised me how much more root-growth happened with the VERY light soil I made up. True woody trees love such soil, but Iwas assuming that more-tropical-in-nature stuff might not thrive in such a soil - I was wrong. Knew it would be better than 'thick' and dense soil, but...WOW! Almost 6"+ of root growth (three stubs of root air-pruned, per se, out of ~8" tall clay-pot's drain hole) from a young 'cutting' with only stubs of roots ~3 weeks post-repotting...not bad, 'eh?

Alex



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