Newbie with a Chinese Elm

[shaunhayward2000]

Hi everyone,

19th of august, I turned 25 and as a birthday present, my of my good friends bought me a Chinese Elm. HOW LUCKY AM I!

Anyway, its 15 years old, and looks very very nice. I will get hold of some pics as soon as I get the bluetooth working on my laptop to send them. Its in a blue ceramic pot, retangular. I was wondering if anyone has any tips for me as I am very very keen on keeping it looking as good as it does now.

I think its been left in a state where it hasn't been pruned in a while, and it was a little dry when I got it too. I think I was told it had new fertilizer on the top, but I'm not sure as it was quite mossy.

Another thing I'm not sure is important to mention, but its very lose in the pot... although, the soil is very compact. Is this ok? I can and have watered it once so far by submerging it in water and waiting for the bubbles (of which there wernt many,.. 2 or 3) without loseing all the soil, so its been in the pot a fair while I think.

don't know what else to say? Its currently in a moderately lit kitchen window after watering it, with the window open just above it for air as I've heard that humidity can cause problems. Only thing I'm concerned about is I don't really have anywhere out side I can put it for the winter? Any ideas here?

I'll stop babbling now, and get some pics on here for tomorrow.

[Gnome]

Shaun,

Hello and welcome to the site and to bonsai. From your description it sounds like the soil is probably in a poor state and needs re-potting. When you post pictures be sure to include one of the soil. When soil dries and pulls away from the side of the pot like that it indicates that the soil is compacted and most likely was never quality soil in the first place. It should not be necessary to submerge a bonsai to water, and if it is that is another indication that the tree needs re-potted.

There are sticky threads at the top of the forum, please take a look at them if you have not already. There is one on general tips that includes information on watering. There is another one about bonsai soils and re-potting.

Ordinarily deciduous, temperate trees are re-potted in the spring. Chinese Elms are a bit unusual in that they are sub-tropical. Please review my remarks in [url=https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6054]this[/url] thread.

Its currently in a moderately lit kitchen window after watering it, with the window open just above it for air as I've heard that humidity can cause problems. Only thing I'm concerned about is I don't really have anywhere out side I can put it for the winter? Any ideas here?

Are you saying that you cannot grow outside at all or that you are concerned about over-wintering? Your tree will be much happier outside for now even if you intend to re-pot this fall as mentioned in the other thread.

Norm

[shaunhayward2000]

Hey,

Thanks for the reply, I've now got some pictures, please do let me know what you think.

I checked the soil today to see if it was dry and its was still quite moist, so it seems better already just by my first watering, but I'll let you be the judge from the pictures.

Regards to outside, I am a little unsure still of how this works, even though I've read up on it quite a bit. It is currently inside with good air and regular temperature with plenty of indirect light. Would it be better outside now? Do I bring it in for the winter, and if so, when?

I do have some place I can put it outside, but if I'm to be honest,.. I kinda want to see it, rather than having to hide it outside!! Can I have it go dormant in my house, or does this process have to happen outside? Basically, the more I can have it inside the better (for me anyway).

Pics as below:

[url=https://img337.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image016df7.jpg][img]https://img337.imageshack.us/img337/3207/image016df7.th.jpg[/img][/url]

[url=https://img54.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image017ai7.jpg][img]https://img54.imageshack.us/img54/9379/image017ai7.th.jpg[/img][/url]

[url=https://img257.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image018my7.jpg][img]https://img257.imageshack.us/img257/1029/image018my7.th.jpg[/img][/url]

[url=https://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image019hx2.jpg][img]https://img401.imageshack.us/img401/60/image019hx2.th.jpg[/img][/url]

[url=https://img262.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image020gs5.jpg][img]https://img262.imageshack.us/img262/6747/image020gs5.th.jpg[/img][/url]

[url=https://img530.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image021qk4.jpg][img]https://img530.imageshack.us/img530/5742/image021qk4.th.jpg[/img][/url]

[shaunhayward2000]

As I mentioned some growers keep them inside for the winter, if you intend to follow this method it is possible to allow the tree to go dormant in the fall and then re-pot before bringing it inside for its "false spring".

This was from the other thread you asked me to look at... funny that actually as I was reading this one not long after I origonally posted it..

does this comment mean that my plant is to be kept outside for the summer and brought in for the false spring.

I'm sorry,.. I'm just a little confused. I do really want to be able to keep it inside all the time,.. and certainly don't want to hurt it though. My main concern is that it goes dormant as it should in the winter, and wakes up again in the spring!

I have recently (not in the pics) filled the drip tray with gravel and a little water (made sure that its not touching the pot) and sat the pot on the gravel for the humidity... will this help?

So, to recap:

1.. humidity from the tray I made and from being under an open window

2.. air flow from open window

3.. light is indirect (but possibley a little low) most light is in the afternoon\evening - this may need addressing - wat are the symptons of not enough light?

4.. watering guidlines will be followed. however, I'm unsure weather to mist

5.. Soil, please let me know what you think from the pics, its definately seeming better after watering.. ( I do seem to remember that the person my friend bought it off for me, was a specific bonsai expert, so it didnt come from a retail outlet or anything and I think he said that it was resently fertilised, hense the moss, what ever that meens? )

Cheers,

Shaun

[Gnome]

Shaun,

I checked the soil today to see if it was dry and its was still quite moist, so it seems better already just by my first watering, but I'll let you be the judge from the pictures.

From what I can see the soil looks better than I had imagined. Also since you mentioned that it was purchased from an experienced grower I have more faith in his work than I might others. But in all honesty your pictures are a bit small and the closeup is rather dark so I can't really say much.

From your description that it shrinks away from the pot when dry I suspect that the soil has compacted somewhat and perhaps is root-bound as well. But again it is hard to say from here.

I do have some place I can put it outside, but if I'm to be honest,.. I kinda want to see it, rather than having to hide it outside!!

I understand but this is shortsighted. You have a nice tree and it would be a shame to weaken it unnecessarily by keeping it inside. Regardless of how you decide to handle it over the winter I suggest you keep it outside for as much of the year as possible.

Can I have it go dormant in my house, or does this process have to happen outside?

No, dormancy is a gradual process that is primarily dependent upon the shortening days that occur after the summer solstice. This is not something that is easily duplicated

The drip tray and the air flow are fine but the low light is troubling. I don't usually mist Chinese Elms but again I keep mine outside.

You have several options on how to handle it for the winter.
A. Keep it inside or bring it in before the first frost.
B. Leave it outside and allow it to go dormant and drop its leaves. Then bring it inside where it will leaf out.
C. Manage it as an outdoor tree year round. It will be dormant all winter. You will have to provide some shelter for the tree but this is not that difficult.

I only have experience with the last method and I have lost a tree but I don't think the dormancy was the issue. There is also one other thing to consider. There is more than one variety of Chinese Elm and there may be some variation in their response to cold weather. Why not ask your friend to put you in touch with the grower and get some additional information from him/her.

Norm

[ynot]

You have a nice tree and it would be a shame to weaken it unnecessarily by keeping it inside. Regardless of how you decide to handle it over the winter I suggest you keep it outside for as much of the year as possible.

Agreed!

Please read [url=https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3557]this[/url]also.

& Research, Research, Research.

ynot

[shaunhayward2000]

Hey guys,

Thanks very much for the tips. So far, the tree seems to be doing ok. I've had it now for a little over a week and I'm pleased with how its going. I have tried to follow the watering guidlines, but am a little worried about it though, probably just through inexperience. It does seem to dry out very quickly though, and I find myself watering it every 1 to 2 days. I hope this is normal!? I've read a few posts on trees that are "root bound", so guess that its because of this? Also, if it is root bound, when is best to root trim? I read the following post and assume this is the case for me too,.. spring?: https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6104&highlight=root+bound

Currently, I have moved the tree to my front room in the window, where I keep both top windows open, and there is a lot of light most of the day. Hopefully this is only temporary, until I can find a nice spot outside. Would be nice if I could get it ouside before autum so it can go dormant.

Oh,.. I will try and get some better pics on here. I know they werent very good, but unfortionately, I only have a really rubbish phone camara. I'll see if I can borrow one!

These are same pics (no point in me taking more without a decent camara),.. but ive resized... any better?

[url=https://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image016qp9.jpg][img]https://img519.imageshack.us/img519/9824/image016qp9.th.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://img442.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image020yq4.jpg][img]https://img442.imageshack.us/img442/2540/image020yq4.th.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://img166.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image017qe8.jpg][img]https://img166.imageshack.us/img166/4511/image017qe8.th.jpg[/img][/url]

[Gnome]

Shaun,

I have tried to follow the watering guidlines, but am a little worried about it though, probably just through inexperience. It does seem to dry out very quickly though, and I find myself watering it every 1 to 2 days. I hope this is normal!?

Don't worry, it is not only normal it is desirable. I would rather deal with frequent watering than soggy soil. Shallow pots don't drain as well as taller pots, thus the necessity of the very free draining soil used in bonsai. Don't feel the need to water as soon as the surface of the soil goes dry. Dig a little deeper into the pot to get an idea of the true moisture level. If the foliage starts to droop a bit you have waited too long. Try to resist the urge to water on any kind of schedule, but do check it daily.

Hopefully this is only temporary, until I can find a nice spot outside. Would be nice if I could get it ouside before autum so it can go dormant.

Please revisit my remarks about day-length and dormancy. The process of preparing for winter is already underway on outdoor trees. Here is an excellent overview on [url=https://www.evergreengardenworks.com/dormancy.htm]Dormancy and indoor Bonsai.[/url] Pay particular attention to Brent's remarks concerning Ulmus parvifolia, this is the botanical name of Chinese Elm.

Norm

[shaunhayward2000]

Hey guys,

Well,.. good and bad news to report after my month of owning a bonsai.

First, the good:

My lovely tree has flurreshed and grown shoots all over the place,.. and other than looking rather untidy, its shown that it can really thrive where I've been keeping it and how ive be looking after it.

Now, the bad:

Unfortionately, due to my job, I have to travel quite a bit sometimes unexpectidly, and I ended up having to be away from my tree for 4 days.

- this has not done it any favours and when I got back, I found that it was very shrivvled looking. The soil was very very dry.

I've watered it twise since as it is drying up more than daily now.

The positive in this is I know why it started to look poorly, but the negative is now I'm a little worried to bringing it back to health as the second day of me watering it, when I moved it to the sink, I've noticed that it got so dry that 20% off the leaves just fell off (but where in colour and dry)

This was very shocking to see, however, the tree still looks very green, if a little tired.

I took this opertunity to just tidey up the tree, pruning very small shoots that were out of place from its previous growth spurt, and a very positive sign was that it is very green and heathy looking just underneath the dryness.

Any tips on bringing my pride and joy up to full health again? Or am I doing everything right? I am: watering as soon as fully dry, placed practically outside, in good light and very airy spot, pruned the wilted area (very small), and generally tided up.

Thanks guys

[shimbu]

There are different pruning and pinching techniques per bonsai. Some bonsai you can prune and pinch as it grows, and this is fine. Others, you should let grow un hindered, until a certain time of year and then prune.

It was either Gnome or Ynot that I think told me something like......

'More often than not, you're bonsai won't look like what you see in pictures, it will be a "work in progress" that typically only you can appreciate. '

If you want it to stay healthy and beautiful, I would suggest reading up on how to prune you're type of tree, because that can be stressful on it to do at the wrong times.

[Overlag]

Now, the bad:

Unfortionately, due to my job, I have to travel quite a bit sometimes unexpectidly, and I ended up having to be away from my tree for 4 days.

- this has not done it any favours and when I got back, I found that it was very shrivvled looking. The soil was very very dry.

I've watered it twise since as it is drying up more than daily now.

The positive in this is I know why it started to look poorly, but the negative is now I'm a little worried to bringing it back to health as the second day of me watering it, when I moved it to the sink, I've noticed that it got so dry that 20% off the leaves just fell off (but where in colour and dry)

This was very shocking to see, however, the tree still looks very green, if a little tired.

I took this opertunity to just tidey up the tree, pruning very small shoots that were out of place from its previous growth spurt, and a very positive sign was that it is very green and heathy looking just underneath the dryness.

Any tips on bringing my pride and joy up to full health again? Or am I doing everything right? I am: watering as soon as fully dry, placed practically outside, in good light and very airy spot, pruned the wilted area (very small), and generally tided up.

Thanks guys

I too would like to know this... I have 3 Elm's, 2 medium size ones (compaired to yours) and 1 small one. My trees all went without water for about a week, and the smallest has by the looks of it totally died.. I hope this isnt the case but I really need to know (just like shaunhayward2000) how to revive this tree if at all possible.

the medium sized trees JUST had enough moisture left in there pots not to get poorly, but this small one looks like its had it

shaunhayward2000, due to the size of the pot there may have been some moisture left, so like my medium size trees, yours may be unhappy but should be ok I hope. Good luck.

[Gnome]

Shaun,

If the shoots are green inside then you should be OK. I probably would not have pruned it at this time but it may not matter. You should be seeing new buds soon. Make sure that you do not over-water it during this period, but don't let it go dry again either. Without foliage the water usage will be lower.

Overlag,

No secrets to offer, either it will recover or it won't. Take note of the cautions I posted above. Good luck.

Norm

[Overlag]

Shaun,

If the shoots are green inside then you should be OK. I probably would not have pruned it at this time but it may not matter. You should be seeing new buds soon. Make sure that you do not over-water it during this period, but don't let it go dry again either. Without foliage the water usage will be lower.

Overlag,

No secrets to offer, either it will recover or it won't. Take note of the cautions I posted above. Good luck.

Norm

thankfully, even though my tree which lost ALL of its leaves, its started to regrow quiet well. I'm keeping it inside over night (its turning very cold here in london, uk) and putting it out in the warm during the day. My aim its to keep it evergreen over winter to let it recover. I might leave it in the greenhouse once its setup again. or Is this not avisable and should I just leave the tree outside and let it go through winter as normal?

my other 2 was left in greenhouse last year and didnt drop much at all, this year I'm going to leave them out for the cold spells, and only put them in the greenhouse if it gets extremely cold (-5 to -7c is extreme to me).


(the greenhouse isnt warm, just stops the frost getting to my parents plants and now my trees lol)


Shaun, how was your tree?