Tommywing's Repotting Dilemma. (Elm & Serissa)

[tommywing]

Hi all,

I have had a look on various sites, I found this on Bonsai4me

"Bonsai cannot be repotted at any time of the year; for the majority of species, there is a small period of time during the Spring where the roots can be disturbed and pruned with reduced risk of danger to the tree's health."

And this on sleepyhoolwbonsai

"Serissa should be repotted about every two years. Serissa may be repotted throughout most of the year, although, the best times for repotting are in early spring. After repotting, water thoroughly and keep the plant in a shady location for several weeks so that new roots may grow."

My question is, if you had two bonsai trees, a Serissa and an Elm, that were both in rubbish soil, and possibly rootbound, spider mites having viseted the serissa and fungus knats the elm, would you repot either/niether/both now or wait till the spring?

I understand the reasons for repotting in the spring, but I see this as special circumstances and from a utilitarian point of view I don't see how it wouldn't help.

Thoughts are appreciated as always.

Tommywing.

[Gnome]

Tommywing,

Serissa's are tropical hence the larger window of opportunity. If you feel the benefits outweigh the risks and you are prepared then perhaps the re-pot of the Serissa will be all right.

I would think long and hard about the Elm though. I lost an Elm this year due to an inopportune potting. Some who keep Chinese Elms inside for the winter allow them to go dormant in the fall and re-pot then, subsequently bringing them inside for the winter. This is a possibility if you are going to handle it as an indoor tree for the winter.

If, on the other hand, you intend to handle it as a temperate tree then next spring is your best bet.

Norm

[ynot]

I have had a look on various sites, I found this on Bonsai4me

"Bonsai cannot be repotted at any time of the year; for the majority of species, there is a small period of time during the Spring where the roots can be disturbed and pruned with reduced risk of danger to the tree's health."

Bonsai4me is a huge site - I wish you had indicated precisely where you got this with a link. [url=https://www.bonsai4me.com/Basics/BasicsWhen%20to%20Repot%20your%20Bonsai.htm]Ok, It is the opening paragraph here.[/url]

And this on sleepyhoolwbonsai

"Serissa should be repotted about every two years. Serissa may be repotted throughout most of the year, although, the best times for repotting are in early spring. After repotting, water thoroughly and keep the plant in a shady location for several weeks so that new roots may grow."

The difference in this case is that the Bonsai4me information is for deciduous temperate trees [Trees that require a dormancy].

A Serissa is a tropical tree [One that never sees the transition of dropping temps and decreased hours of daylight and back again that happens during the seasonal changes from summer to fall to winter and back to spring in climates outside of the tropics]

When you go back to the article you "quoted" from [url=https://www.bonsai4me.com/Basics/BasicsWhen%20to%20Repot%20your%20Bonsai.htm][Click here to see it.][/url]

You will see that the very next paragraph specifically states this & also notes that other species {EG: tropicals} can be repotted through out the year.

{You quoted the brown section, Please note the next paragraph.} Here is the full quote:

Bonsai cannot be repotted at any time of the year; for the majority of species, there is a small period of time during the Spring where the roots can be disturbed and pruned with reduced risk of danger to the tree's health.

Though there are tree species that can be repotted at other times of the year, the purpose of this article is to describe and highlight the best time for repotting the typical deciduous bonsai in Spring.

As you can see by the green/olive text this article does not apply to your Serrissa at all. Harry Does mention Serrissa [url=https://www.bonsai4me.com/Basics/Basics_Repotting1.html]Near the bottom of Part 1 of 'Repotting & Rootpruning'.[/url]

I do not know if you plan on treating your Chinese Elm as an evergreen tropical or a deciduous tree but this another issue to consider certainly.

My question is, if you had two bonsai trees, a Serissa and an Elm, that were both in rubbish soil, and possibly rootbound, spider mites having viseted the serissa and fungus knats the elm, would you repot either/niether/both now or wait till the spring?

I am certain both of those sites also say to only repot a healthy tree 'unless it's an emergency' or something similar

I understand the reasons for repotting in the spring, but I see this as special circumstances and from a utilitarian point of view I don't see how it wouldn't help.

Sure, Being in better soil would absolutely help [and I promise you my post history here will back up that I feel that way ]

BUT - You are only considering the benefits and none of the associated risks & You are leaving important questions unasked:

It is good to ask "What are the benefits?" IE:

I don't see how it wouldn't help.

However, What you are not asking {But should be}is:

1. What are the risks involved? Out of season repot for the Ulmus that is [or recently] fighting infestation
2.Why would I not do it? See above - Not an emergency.
3.Why is it only done at certain times? [url=https://www.bonsai4me.com/Basics/BasicsWhen%20to%20Repot%20your%20Bonsai.htm]Addressed in the initial article you quoted.[/url]
4. Current health of said trees. IMO they are weakened but "Special circumstances" does not equal an emergency situation.

Considering their recent history... I would let them ride.

Welcome to the task of being patient in bonsai .

ynot

[tommywing]

Thanks to both of you for your informative (and multicoloured) posts.

I will certainly leave the elm be, I will repot it in April perhaps.

I might risk it and repot the serissa however, because I think might accumulate more problems in the soil it is in between now and April, I don't want to watch it suffer!

I will use this soil:

https://www.greendragonbonsai.co.uk/BONSAI_SOIL_AT_GREEN_DRAGON_BONSAI.htm

and maybe a new pot, I'm not sure.

Cheers!

[ynot]

Thanks to both of you for your informative (and multicoloured) posts.

Your welcome, It's all for the emphasis my man, It's good to know I can effectively draw your eye right where I want it .

I will certainly leave the elm be, I will repot it in April perhaps.

Not by the calender - By the activity of the tree .

I might risk it and repot the serissa however, because I think might accumulate more problems in the soil it is in between now and April, I don't want to watch it suffer!

Do read up on repotting and let us know how it goes. Good luck!

The page you linked to has a variety of soil on it.
I will ask what may be a stupid question...Which is your intended? [The indoor possibly?]

ynot

[tommywing]

I am easily led by bright colours, it's how I navigate.

April isn't a good time then? What month would be good? I know I could find this out I am being lazy, it is sunday and I am hungover.

The soil I was going for was the ready mix which as Akadama, Kyodama and baked clay granules in it.

Not the indoor one as it has peat in it, and that's not whats best for the tree, I assumed.

Tommywing

[ynot]

I am easily led by bright colours, it's how I navigate.

Me too.

April isn't a good time then? What month would be good? I know I could find this out I am being lazy, it is sunday and I am hungover.

Well, It is impossible to go consistently go by any calender date as that has little to do what is actually going on with the tree.

[Due to differences in climate] Your April differs substantially from mine or a Texans or a Kiwis... And the same species of tree at each location will be reacting differently to it's specific set of circumstances and not the calender.

I know this is a fairly long article [and one you have already visited I think] but how to recognize your trees awakening from dormancy is pretty well laid out[url=https://www.bonsai4me.com/Basics/BasicsWhen%20to%20Repot%20your%20Bonsai.htm]here.[/url]

The soil I was going for was the ready mix which as Akadama, Kyodama and baked clay granules in it.

Not the indoor one as it has peat in it, and that's not whats best for the tree, I assumed.

Ok, 'The ready mix' understood. The soil you are considering seems pretty good.
I read through the descriptions of the contents and the baked clay [Which is akin to kitty litter actually.] seems that it will retain enough moisture [I had concerns that there was no organics before reading this. BTW Akadama is high fired clay also.]

Good luck.

[And I see what you mean about the peat in the 'indoor mix' and it does look to be the powdery kind ~ Good call on your part I think.]

Hydrate that hangover .

ynot

[tommywing]

Right, I see what you mean about the seasons, makes perfect logical sense, a capacity of which I am somewhat lacking today, due to said hangover.

I will read that article and make a note in my diary!

I will post on the faliure of success of my serissa once I have sorted it out.

I feel much better after something to eat!

Enjoy your Sunday!

[ynot]

Right, I see what you mean about the seasons, makes perfect logical sense, a capacity of which I am somewhat lacking today, due to said hangover.

I will read that article and make a note in my diary!

I will post on the faliure of success of my serissa once I have sorted it out.

I feel much better after something to eat!

Lessee...From top to bottom:
Cool, I like it when I make sense - I take the small victories.

[Have you considered the Dean Martin Hangover cure?....Stay drunk!]


I look forward to hearing about the repot - Good luck .
Eating is good, Yeah

Enjoy your Sunday!

Thanks, I will - Recover and discover yours

ynot

[tommywing]

Hi All,

Serissa is repotted, in a bigger pot with new soil mix. Roots looked bound and the soil was sandy and drier than I expected, anyway fingers crossed the tree likes his new home!

Tommywing

[Gnome]

tommywing,

OK, keep us posted. One thing to keep in mind is that the watering requirements of the tree in the new mix will be different than before. Be careful to pay close attention until you start to get the feel for this new situation.

Norm

[tommywing]

Hi Gnome,

it's much easier to see if the tree needs watering now, as when I repotted it the top half of the soil was damp and the bottom dry, there were hardly any roots lower down as well, which might have something to do with it.

I gave it a decent amount of water, until it drained freely from the bottom, and now I just have to keep my fingers crossed.

T

[PhilC]

I hope it goes well Tommy. Keep us up to date.

[tommywing]

Serissa is still losing leaves, and one cluster has gone limp. There is some new growth, but a lot of it quickly develops black ends to the leaves.

Generally does not look very healthy