I have read a couple different things were people don't suggest potting young plants, I was wondering what some more opinions on this was...And if you suggestion not potting young plants, what is a good age or trunk size to pot them at?
I have a couple a young trees that sprouted this season, it was move them or mow them over...I started with 2 maples, a elm, and 2 unknown they have what kinda looks like a maple leaf but 3 pointed. The one maple leaves turned dry and shriveled pretty quick, the other maple held in longer but they are now going the same route...and the elm looks healthy and green just no new growth, and two unknowns have both sprouted new growth...and now I am curious if my elm and maples were just potted to young...
their home is a east window ledge, the soil mix is perlite, moss, lava rock, the mix is probably 30% perltie, 20-30% moss, and rest lava rock. But I think the lava rock which may be a good size for my larger ficus, (1/8 to 5/16) isn't so good for the little guys...anyone have comments on fish tank rock for a smaller substitute to lava rock?
Our yard was also blessed with a sunburst locust, at least I think that is what she is....anyone had any luck with this type of tree in a pot? It is about 1.5-2 ft, sitting in a bucket of dirt waiting for me to determine its future...
also, has anyone had problems with a white mold growing on the brown clay pots????? I keep cleaning it off with hot water, but it just comes back....
Later I will try to get a picture or two up of my ficus from my original past, after heavy pruning of top and bottom, its has pretty much sprouted growth everywhere....
mwmourer
Is it clean fish tank rock? or used - As I recall it seems an expensive way to go and also does it actually retain any moisture or not?
ynot
This refers to potting them up in aesthetically pleasing [fairly shallow & small] bonsai pots - Not potting in general.I have read a couple different things were people don't suggest potting young plants, I was wondering what some more opinions on this was...
Neither of these are the rule of measure, It is development, Granted sometimes one is simply trying to develop trunk girth [and in the ground or a fair sized pot fastest/next fastest way to do this.And if you suggestion not potting young plants, what is a good age or trunk size to pot them at?
Maybe, Also your soil mix possibly.I have a couple a young trees that sprouted this season, it was move them or mow them over...I started with 2 maples, a elm, and 2 unknown they have what kinda looks like a maple leaf but 3 pointed. The one maple leaves turned dry and shriveled pretty quick, the other maple held in longer but they are now going the same route...and the elm looks healthy and green just no new growth, and two unknowns have both sprouted new growth...and now I am curious if my elm and maples were just potted to young...
Is this screened? Also: Is the Sphagnum moss the only organic ingredient in the pot? No partially composed bark bits or anything like that? [I went and looked at your previous threads because when you simply say 'moss' we are likely to spend a lot of time sorting out which type only to find out you have the right stuff ]their home is a east window ledge, the soil mix is perlite, moss, lava rock, the mix is probably 30% perltie, 20-30% moss, and rest lava rock.
Do you have a way to sieve this to separate it? I am actually more concerned about the smaller end of the scale [Why not use that for the little ones?] as opposed to the larger.But I think the lava rock which may be a good size for my larger ficus, (1/8 to 5/16) isn't so good for the little guys...anyone have comments on fish tank rock for a smaller substitute to lava rock?
Is it clean fish tank rock? or used - As I recall it seems an expensive way to go and also does it actually retain any moisture or not?
Give it try, I am unfamiliar with it's requirements though - Sorry.Our yard was also blessed with a sunburst locust, at least I think that is what she is....anyone had any luck with this type of tree in a pot? It is about 1.5-2 ft, sitting in a bucket of dirt waiting for me to determine its future...
Are you positive it is mold and not hard water stains [have to ask :shrug:] - I would be VERY careful using 'hot' water on pots with trees in them [Actually.. That's not true - I wouldn't use hot water on a pot containing a tree.]also, has anyone had problems with a white mold growing on the brown clay pots????? I keep cleaning it off with hot water, but it just comes back....
I look forward to it.Later I will try to get a picture or two up of my ficus from my original past, after heavy pruning of top and bottom, its has pretty much sprouted growth everywhere....
ynot
yes the moss is the only organic in the pot.
"Do you have a way to sieve this to separate it? I am actually more concerned about the smaller end of the scale [Why not use that for the little ones?] as opposed to the larger.
Is it clean fish tank rock? or used - As I recall it seems an expensive way to go and also does it actually retain any moisture or not?"
For the small end I use a cross-stick needle point canvas thingy...used nylon to do the folds to bring it into a box shape, I believe it is " count" but I am not sure, whatever the standard is....so the opening are slightly smaller then 1/8" due to it being on the on center measurement...works well...still trying to find something on the large side....but have only been able to find hardware cloth by the 30 foot roll and so on....
The fish rock would be new...and I highly doubt it holds water but if someone told me it does I would believe I guess.
Though, I am confused by what you are saying in this portion
"I am actually more concerned about the smaller end of the scale [Why not use that for the little ones?] as opposed to the larger."
The day I used "hot" like steaming water was when I took the plants out to change soil, I had bought some bonsai soil and was highly disappointed in it. It could be hardwater stains but just the way it is on the pot makes me suspect its not....its more like blotches on the pot then strips that would have been water running down the side of the pot....
"Do you have a way to sieve this to separate it? I am actually more concerned about the smaller end of the scale [Why not use that for the little ones?] as opposed to the larger.
Is it clean fish tank rock? or used - As I recall it seems an expensive way to go and also does it actually retain any moisture or not?"
For the small end I use a cross-stick needle point canvas thingy...used nylon to do the folds to bring it into a box shape, I believe it is " count" but I am not sure, whatever the standard is....so the opening are slightly smaller then 1/8" due to it being on the on center measurement...works well...still trying to find something on the large side....but have only been able to find hardware cloth by the 30 foot roll and so on....
The fish rock would be new...and I highly doubt it holds water but if someone told me it does I would believe I guess.
Though, I am confused by what you are saying in this portion
"I am actually more concerned about the smaller end of the scale [Why not use that for the little ones?] as opposed to the larger."
The day I used "hot" like steaming water was when I took the plants out to change soil, I had bought some bonsai soil and was highly disappointed in it. It could be hardwater stains but just the way it is on the pot makes me suspect its not....its more like blotches on the pot then strips that would have been water running down the side of the pot....
Okyes the moss is the only organic in the pot.
IMO, this is not small enough, Do you have old Window screen? [or access to ?] It is not the best but this would help you to eliminate the fine dust like particles.For the small end I use a cross-stick needle point canvas thingy...used nylon to do the folds to bring it into a box shape, I believe it is " count" but I am not sure, whatever the standard is....so the opening are slightly smaller then 1/8" due to it being on the on center measurement...works well...still trying to find something on the large side....but have only been able to find hardware cloth by the 30 foot roll and so on....
I would suggest arcilite but without screening it would be a mess.. I am not sure about the fish gravel [Water retention] though as I recall it is a nice size.
The fish rock would be new...and I highly doubt it holds water but if someone told me it does I would believe I guess.
What I meant [And you indicated above] is that you were not screening out the smaller particles [RE: Smaller end of the scale] and this may possibly cause limited aeration and excessive moisture retention.Though, I am confused by what you are saying in this portion
"I am actually more concerned about the smaller end of the scale [Why not use that for the little ones?] as opposed to the larger."
I was suggesting that you use the smaller particles for your smaller bonsai as you indicated you felt your soils particles were too large to use. Again, You would need a way to separate them.
I see, I am not sure what to make of that. It seems to me that you would have to be keeping the pot pretty wet for it to be mold...? Is it on the inside [where it could possibly sit] or on the outside?The day I used "hot" like steaming water was when I took the plants out to change soil, I had bought some bonsai soil and was highly disappointed in it. It could be hardwater stains but just the way it is on the pot makes me suspect its not....its more like blotches on the pot then strips that would have been water running down the side of the pot....
ynot
I think there is some mis understanding here...your suggesting I use a window screen to eliminate small stuff, I am using that 8 count plastic "mesh" to eliminate my small stuff. The window screen would retain many finer objects....Ok
Quote:
For the small end I use a cross-stick needle point canvas thingy...used nylon to do the folds to bring it into a box shape, I believe it is "8 count" but I am not sure, whatever the standard is....so the opening are slightly smaller then 1/8" due to it being on the on center measurement...works well...still trying to find something on the large side....but have only been able to find hardware cloth by the 30 foot roll and so on....
IMO, this is not small enough, Do you have old Window screen? [or access to ?] It is not the best but this would help you to eliminate the fine dust like particles.
Far as water retention in the fish gravel being none, am I actually getting much water retention from fired clay or lava rock?
You asked if moss was my only organic, at maybe 30%...is this bad?
I feel I may be using to large of particles, but I am not really sure...I have seen suggestions for using a finer mix for small young trees and sometimes I have seen no mention...just looking for opinions or knowledge on whether 5/16-3/8" is to big for a young plant even if I am using it for a larger plant.
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mwmourer,
Norm
I have never used aquarium gravel. I have some concerns that it may be too smooth and regular in shape. The fired clay and lava do retain water, due not only to their irregular shape but their porous nature.Far as water retention in the fish gravel being none, am I actually getting much water retention from fired clay or lava rock?
I feel that this is rather large. My soil is generally screened to between 1/8 and 1/4. The fines from this are screened yet again with 1/16. This 1/16 to 1/8 mix is used primarily for cuttings and starting seeds, the fines from this stage are too small for anything bonsai related.just looking for opinions or knowledge on whether 5/16-3/8" is to big for a young plant
Norm
Below is a picture of my Elm that seems to have a problem...I repotted and this was his response....soil is about 25/25/50 lava rock/aqua rock/fir bark. He spends his time in a window, gets about 5 hours of air conditioning a day, and with my soil I have been watering him about every 2 days...he did good for about 2 weeks inside...and what is strange is even though his leaves aren't looking good, he is now sprouting new growth....he has been in the new soil for maybe 4-6 days.
[img]https://img300.imageshack.us/img300/2320/plants009wl1.jpg[/img]
just a couple comments on my luck with soil materials
Aqua rock - so far love it, the size of the rock is a very consistent 1/4, give or take an 1/8. I loss nothing but dust through my 1/8 inch mesh and the soil that doesn't go through the 1/4 mesh would probably fall through a 3/8 mesh.
Peat moss - I tried this after reading it was a good organic for water retention, and it surely does hold water....but from looking at my roots, they had a tendency to wrap around it. instead of spreading...
lava rock - in the big 50 lb bag its mainly to big for anything good....the smaller 5 lb bag that cost about the same is about 50/50 split...I use the pieces under 5/16 for soil and rest I use in the bottom of the pot for a drainage spacer...
bark - nothing good or bad to say, it just simply works.
This is the soil I used on my larger plant, it contains pieces from about 1/8 to about 5/16-3/8 inch...for the smaller plants like my elm above I tried not to use anything bigger then 1/4 inch...but I let some bark slide slightly bigger...
[img]https://img255.imageshack.us/img255/6638/plants005fz9.jpg[/img]
Picture of my ficus - I would guess by fall I will need a bigger pot, but I am having troubles finding one I would call acceptable....he was in old soil for about 2 months, prior to re-pot, he wasn't rebound like I have seen in some pictures...but he was filling out the container nicely with a large amount of root growth and he is starting to look more like a bush...
picture is kinda bad, will aim for a better one soon...
[img]https://img255.imageshack.us/img255/1728/july7xe2.jpg[/img]
Thanks for any help on the elm.
PS. Is there a place to post comments on soil material already?
[img]https://img300.imageshack.us/img300/2320/plants009wl1.jpg[/img]
just a couple comments on my luck with soil materials
Aqua rock - so far love it, the size of the rock is a very consistent 1/4, give or take an 1/8. I loss nothing but dust through my 1/8 inch mesh and the soil that doesn't go through the 1/4 mesh would probably fall through a 3/8 mesh.
Peat moss - I tried this after reading it was a good organic for water retention, and it surely does hold water....but from looking at my roots, they had a tendency to wrap around it. instead of spreading...
lava rock - in the big 50 lb bag its mainly to big for anything good....the smaller 5 lb bag that cost about the same is about 50/50 split...I use the pieces under 5/16 for soil and rest I use in the bottom of the pot for a drainage spacer...
bark - nothing good or bad to say, it just simply works.
This is the soil I used on my larger plant, it contains pieces from about 1/8 to about 5/16-3/8 inch...for the smaller plants like my elm above I tried not to use anything bigger then 1/4 inch...but I let some bark slide slightly bigger...
[img]https://img255.imageshack.us/img255/6638/plants005fz9.jpg[/img]
Picture of my ficus - I would guess by fall I will need a bigger pot, but I am having troubles finding one I would call acceptable....he was in old soil for about 2 months, prior to re-pot, he wasn't rebound like I have seen in some pictures...but he was filling out the container nicely with a large amount of root growth and he is starting to look more like a bush...
picture is kinda bad, will aim for a better one soon...
[img]https://img255.imageshack.us/img255/1728/july7xe2.jpg[/img]
Thanks for any help on the elm.
PS. Is there a place to post comments on soil material already?
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- Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:17 am
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mwmourer,
It's kind of hard to tell if the large chunks in the elm are bark or perhaps dense lava. Either way those pieces are very large. All components should be approximately the same size. In this case the large chunks of bark do not serve their intended function well, which is the retention of moisture and nutrients. The soil in your second picture looks a little better, if a bit large, but the first picture may be misleading in that we can't see the whole surface and there is nothing for scale.
Here is a thread that has some information about soils.
https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3530
Also make sure you review the soil sticky here.
https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3422
Norm
It's kind of hard to tell if the large chunks in the elm are bark or perhaps dense lava. Either way those pieces are very large. All components should be approximately the same size. In this case the large chunks of bark do not serve their intended function well, which is the retention of moisture and nutrients. The soil in your second picture looks a little better, if a bit large, but the first picture may be misleading in that we can't see the whole surface and there is nothing for scale.
I still think that 5/16 - 3/8 is rather large but putting this aside for a moment consider what you are doing by including 1/8 size in this mix. The smaller components will filter between the larger ones and effectively reduce the drainage. The mix that drains the best will be a mix of uniform size. Not that drainage will be an issue in this specific example, just saying.This is the soil I used on my larger plant, it contains pieces from about 1/8 to about 5/16-3/8 inch...
Although this is often recommended it is not the best approach. A pot that is stratified into layers as you describe will tend to retain water in the more finely textured upper layer. All you are doing is raising the perched water table within the pot. A better approach is to used screen to retain the soil. Did I mention that the best soil is uniform in size throughout.I use the pieces under 5/16 for soil and rest I use in the bottom of the pot for a drainage spacer.
I thought that you just root-pruned and re-potted. Another re-pot so soon should not be necessary.Picture of my ficus - I would guess by fall I will need a bigger pot,
You collected this tree from your yard, correct? Why are you keeping it inside? Air conditioning is death to plants as it dries the air in your home beyond their comfort range. Light behind a window is not ideal either.Below is a picture of my Elm that seems to have a problem...I repotted and this was his response....soil is about 25/25/50 lava rock/aqua rock/fir bark. He spends his time in a window, gets about 5 hours of air conditioning a day,
Here is a thread that has some information about soils.
https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3530
Also make sure you review the soil sticky here.
https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3422
Norm