Tommywing's Chinese Elm

[tommywing]

Hi All,

I am aware I already have a 2 page thread on here about one tree, however this was £10 reduced from £30 so I had to get it!

I have pruned the obvious bits, and have cut back to the small leaves as I have read, watered it properly etc and have killed two flies that seemed to be living on it.

Now. The first branch up on the right had a long branch that I clipped to expose the curvature of the trunk. Now it looks good to me, but my question, which is open to everyone and I appreciate hearing your thoughts, is what would you do next?

http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/8881/img1887qg8.jpg

thanks

Tommywing

[ynot]

I am aware I already have a 2 page thread on here about one tree, however this was £10 reduced from £30 so I had to get it!

8) 8)

I have pruned the obvious bits, and have cut back to the small leaves as I have read, watered it properly etc and have killed two flies that seemed to be living on it.

The soil looks to be terrible [Appears possibly very peat based & is very fine particles at any rate.].

Seasonally, It is too late to do anything about it but that would be my first priority for next spring.

Now. The first branch up on the right had a long branch that I clipped to expose the curvature of the trunk. Now it looks good to me, but my question, which is open to everyone and I appreciate hearing your thoughts, is what would you do next?

With better pictures some virts would be possible, See these photo tips.

A quick question: Are you looking to have a rounded full canopy or something more 'informal upright' with distinctive foliage pads?

ynot

[tommywing]

Hi Ynot

I thought the soil was pretty rubbish too, it's the same on my Serrisa, but I'll deal with that in spring.

I will take better snaps, so I can see some masterpieces of graphic design.

I think a rounded canopy would be nice, I'm trying to ascertain which would suit the tree better.

Tommywing

[ynot]

Hi Ynot

Oi!

I thought the soil was pretty rubbish too, it's the same on my Serrisa, but I'll deal with that in spring.

Yeah, It is shameful the soil people will sell their trees in :shakes head sadly:...On the other hand, Spring projects are good !

I will take better snaps, so I can see some masterpieces of graphic design.

:lol: Yes, I would be interested in these 'masterpieces' also... Let me know when & where they are posted

I think a rounded canopy would be nice, I'm trying to ascertain which would suit the tree better.

Ok, Like a big old mushroom effect...Or something else?

ynot

[tommywing]

The branches at the top of the tree are sort of stepped, like a spiral staircase on the left hand side of the tree, I quite like this feature.

I also like the trees with a large canopy, then a single mass emerging through it, sort of like the elm on this website:

http://www.tomsvariety.com/bonsai.htm

But oviously bigger.

Perhaps some smaps of the branch formation would help?

I don't fancy anything too drastic, as it is quite pretty as it is.

[ynot]

The branches at the top of the tree are sort of stepped, like a spiral staircase on the left hand side of the tree, I quite like this feature.

Understood, Sort of a 'happy medium mixture' of the first two options I mentioned.

I also like the trees with a large canopy, then a single mass emerging through it, sort of like the elm on this website:

Ah, Ok but hopefully more ramified and filled out than that one - I can do that.

Perhaps some smaps of the branch formation would help?

For virts just straight on well lit w/ a plain background is fine. To explain your goals they may be helpful. They may or may not be useful within the virt...

If you want to include additional pics [Only helpful if from the same perspective obviously] with added graphics of what you would prefer to be removed or added:
['Add open Space here' or 'extend this' or 'remove that'... Directions like that can be really helpful if it's specific and clear.

I don't fancy anything too drastic, as it is quite pretty as it is.

Wrings hands together... Oh I can get drastic.. But no trees have been injured during the virtual process...So far

ynot

[Gnome]

Tommywing,

I generally try not to be too harsh in critiquing trees here, partly because we have a lot of people new to bonsai and I feel that these early trees are useful learning tools and being too critical can turn some people off. Also I am still struggling with the artistic aspects myself.

For your Elm, consider the portion below the first branch in relation to the portion above it. I see some definite reverse taper, a situation where the trunk thickens instead of thinning. The trunk should reduce in girth from the bottom to the top.

If there is enough room to do so, an air layer might solve this problem and give you two pieces of material to work with. I suspect that there may not really be enough room to do this though. Another option is to allow one, or more, low branches to grow unchecked for several years. This serve to thicken the trunk below the branches. They can be quite long and will be unattractive during this process.

Norm

[Gnome]

Tommywing,

Here is a virt that shows what I was thinking of. Certainly not a "masterpiece of graphic design"



The base would also be retained and would then have proper taper. These are just ideas to be discussed.

Norm

[tommywing]

Hi Norm,

Thanks for the advice, I see what you mean about the taper on the trunk, however I don't understand how you would achieve what you show in your virt.

Are you suggesting air layering the first branch on the right and then growing that into a tree like the one you showed?

Thanks

Tom

[gnome80]

Well I'm back again to cause confusion again

No this is not Gnome, but gnome80 aka David


I just saw this post and decided to ask one nice last question (I doubt it).

I also just got (kidnapped) my mates Chinese ELM, which has very bad soil and was very root bound (Damn stores abuse these poor plants).


My Q is what soil would best go with a nice (young) ELM?

I'll make some pics soon, It's a very nice tree.

[tommywing]

I have a suspicioun mine is also root bound and in cack soil, so please elt me know what you use!

[gnome80]

well mine (my mates) is like stated earlier in the post very peat based & has very fine particles.

IT absorbs alot of watter in one time and gets very moist, but if u try and submerge, most dirt come up and everything falls to pieces.
(Once again shops who don't take good care of a Bonsai before selling it anger me).

My Zelkova had the same problem, but that one was saved in time and is growing very nice.


Only I'm kinda hesitant to use the same soil and pot arrangement (not the same pot) as i did with my Zelly. Hence the question.

[ynot]

gnome80,

Please visit the links I posted to you as well as the stickys suggested by Gnome in your previous thread.
[ http://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/v ... ght=#26467 ]

Had you done that as suggested you would have noticed that these two questions [among many many others ] are specifically addressed there.

IE:

My Q is what soil would best go with a nice (young) ELM?

From the soil sticky:

As you study these links you will find a wealth of experience and opinions. They may differ slightly but each is working for that persons environment.
This is a key issue to address. Often people ask 'What is the best soil mix for [Random tree type]?' This question has as many different answers as there are variables [and people] involved in bonsai itself.

Factors to consider when choosing a soil mix
Species/Age/Development of the tree, Location [Both geographic and wrt indoors or out.], Schedule [Some materials break down quicker than others.], Personal Schedule [Some people use a more organic water retentive mix as they have less time in their schedule to attend to watering, Use caution w/ this approach.], Materials available [Not all soil components are universally available, There are plenty of other options] Budget, etc...

With so many factors, It's no wonder there is no 'perfect soil.'

IT absorbs alot of watter in one time and gets very moist, but if u try and submerge, most dirt come up and everything falls to pieces.

This is from the watering article on Bonsai4 me that you had been directed to previously:

Some bonsai sources willl recommend watering a bonsai by immersing the bonsai pot in water for a while. This is not a recommended way of watering your trees.{The emphasis is his}

Please RE-read your previous thread and the forum stickys and do follow the links provided as well as there is a wealth of information presented in your last thread.
The above info was suggested by Gnome & I in our first posts each [respectively] to you because it is relevant and important.

It is very frustrating that it is not being utilized [Much less it need be repeated] and that makes it ineffective to say the least.

ynot

[gnome80]

Hhhmmm It seems that I have been missunderstood here.

I have seen and been and read all the links provided and do remember all that was stated.

The submerging wasnt meant as in watering but just to give and idea of how poor the soil was and to give and idea how bad the tree was taken care of. (Bowing in respect and saying sorry for my poor explanation)

I;m planning on saving the tree by repotting it in better soil, thus the question in this thread cause Tommy's tree looks and seems axact the same as the one I;m talking about.

The question was for advice from you guys as in what type (not brand or anything) of soil would be your thought.

The standard info linked wasnt enough for this case.

My Zelkova on the other hand was helped perfect because I knew al the required info.

ANyway long story short not to cause any further upset, I'll go get a lamp and do some night reading and compare the links and some books.


(Kneels and Begs for mercy)

David

[tommywing]

I will happily admit that in the past I have skim read some of the info provided, decide that my question isn't answered and then ask a question in a forum, only to have it highlighted for me in something I didn't actually read!

People get post happy, and lets face it, lazy, and that makes the people with the info fume!