Finally got my first Juniper and I need help
It's a Chinese Juniper. The larger Juniper was thrown in the sale for free, and I'm unsure of the variety, but was told it was not a Golden Juniper. I know it's a bit big, but I may be able to do something with it. As you can see, the larger Juniper has been neglected, so I hope to bring it back. There is some new growth, so hopefully it's not dead yet. Here's the pic:
Last edited by baileysup on Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The big one is majorly root bound, and the smaller one is a bit too. Maybe that's why the big one doesn't look so hot right now. Would it be ok to rake out and trim the roots, and get rid of all the old soil to replace with bonsai soil this time of year? Or should I just rake out the outside roots while leaving most of the soil and trimming just enough to get it back in the pot? Because it is so root bound, I feel it necessary to take immediate action. At this this time of year I'm not sure what action would be the best for the tree. Any ideas? Thanks everyone. Here's pics:
I just read online to never bare root a juniper, and to only change 1/3 ( or at very most a 1/2) of the soil at each re-potting. Also says to repot in April, but I could also do in August as long as it's not too hot. Also to avoid Akadama, and similar low fired clays that break down after one to two years. Says an inorganic clay based soil is essential for junipers..Looks like I need to find some inorganic clay based soil for these two and repot.
Yes, I will keep the trees outside at all times. I like the slip pot idea, but are you saying not to touch the roots at all? Would it be a bad idea to rake them out just a little bit? They are very compacted, and it's all roots at the bottom of the pot. There's no soil there...............Just a little bit
What I mostly want you to do. More'n just about anything, it to touch (as in also pick up) your trees every single day.baileysup wrote:Yes, I will keep the trees outside at all times. I like the slip pot idea, but are you saying to nor touch the roots at all? Would it be a bad idea to rake them out just a little bit? They are very compacted, and it's all roots at the bottom of the pot. There's no soil there.
Yes, you certainly could tickle apart those roots with a chop stick a little before slip-potting. FWIW you could also spear (top to bottom and side to side) the soil ball a few times with your trusty chopstick.
As with everything, moderation as you get dirty (especially in July-August) will help your trees as much as slip potting.
Thanks for your reply tomc. I can already feel a bond with these two, that will only become stronger with each day. The trees will receive much attention, and be pampered as much as possible. I appreciate you getting back to me in such a timely manner, because I'm just about to go out to get supplies for the trees. It's going to be nice to give the roots a little tease, because they need it desperately. The weather today is wonderfully cool as well. Bye for now.
Well, I found coarse sand, a 2 quart bag of fir bark (for good luck), and an all purpose gravel that is too large to be mixed into the potting soil. I will just put a layer of this gravel on the bottom of the pot for better drainage. Could not find crushed granite or exploded clay ( or any clay products ), so this is it. I have to make something work with this. It's a good thing I'm only slip potting these two for now. My question is since the mix is only potting mix and sand, how much sand should I use verses potting mix? I'm thinking 50-70% sand. There will be a bit of fir bark in there as well
Just mixed up a test batch of 66% sand and 33% potting soil. It feels VERY sandy. I heard some Japanese grow there pines in 100% sand, but I'm not sure how similar the needs are between pines and junipers. I may wait to hear back from someone before I go ahead with the slip pot. Even if it has to wait for another day. Should I lower it to 50 % sand and 50% potting soil with the added bark?
It feels like it needs some larger particles. I added 25% bark, and it just doesn't feel right. I might have to use perlite. I will try it and see if it feels better, cause it really just feels like sand right now. I can't find pumice ANYWHERE!....................OK, I'm back and I think I got it. The perlite helped a lot. This is what I have right now: 2 parts soil
2 parts sand
2 parts perlte
1 part fir bark
It feels pretty good, and I think this will be good enough for the slip potting
2 parts sand
2 parts perlte
1 part fir bark
It feels pretty good, and I think this will be good enough for the slip potting
Last edited by baileysup on Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I get my ganite grit from one of three sources:
A cinder block factory, by the barrel.
A gravel factory, by the ton.
The cattle--horse feed store by the fifty pound bag. As chicken scratch ("Grani-Grit") is one national brand. Go for the biggest size they have (grower or layer) chick is too small--dusty.
Your mix is gonna dry out soonish. I expect you will have to water more when it is hot out. Always poke your chopstick into dirt to test for need of water--before watering.
Secret a new grower learns to water to the soil s/he has. Its part of the learning curve. And is part and parcel of my prayer that you touch handle and pick up your trees daily.
A cinder block factory, by the barrel.
A gravel factory, by the ton.
The cattle--horse feed store by the fifty pound bag. As chicken scratch ("Grani-Grit") is one national brand. Go for the biggest size they have (grower or layer) chick is too small--dusty.
Your mix is gonna dry out soonish. I expect you will have to water more when it is hot out. Always poke your chopstick into dirt to test for need of water--before watering.
Secret a new grower learns to water to the soil s/he has. Its part of the learning curve. And is part and parcel of my prayer that you touch handle and pick up your trees daily.
I'm not sure if it's gonna make it without the grit. It felt really sandy after I watered it, like the particle size was too small. Well I hope it does make it, cause I really love this tree. I spent a long time with it today just sprucing up the foliage. Let it be noted that I've NEVER seen such a mess of a root system before in my life, and I'm sure that is why the tree went downhill. It must have been in that pot for 5 years. It is what it is at this point. Just have to wait and see. If the Japanese can grow pines in 100% sand, I might have a chance with this one.
Your soil will do for this year. Keep a chopstick stuck in soil and withdraw it and touch for moisture. If chop stick is damp, your trees have enough water. If dry, its time to water.
Older recipes for bonsai soil often used coarse sand. It went out of fashion as the federal government made road construction use granite gravel. Making a jillion cubic yards of orphan granite dust. It went to poultry uses first, and there was still umpty tons left over.
Tractor Supply is useless. Is there a Blue Seal livestock store near you? (I bet there is).
A bit of pearlite will do.
You'll get your soil stuff together.
When I fired up the Blue Seal store locator for Philadelphia I got four hits. Bensalem PA, Sicklerville PA, Vincentown NJ, Woodstown NJ
I bet you could get better hits if you fired up their search on your own...
Older recipes for bonsai soil often used coarse sand. It went out of fashion as the federal government made road construction use granite gravel. Making a jillion cubic yards of orphan granite dust. It went to poultry uses first, and there was still umpty tons left over.
Tractor Supply is useless. Is there a Blue Seal livestock store near you? (I bet there is).
A bit of pearlite will do.
You'll get your soil stuff together.
When I fired up the Blue Seal store locator for Philadelphia I got four hits. Bensalem PA, Sicklerville PA, Vincentown NJ, Woodstown NJ
I bet you could get better hits if you fired up their search on your own...
I did locate some Blue Seal participants close to my house. Just have to wait for wifey to come home with the phone to call them. I have a question about the roots on the big one. Notice how in the picture they are all brown/reddish in color? When I raked them out I didn't come across any white roots, and they were all brownish/red. Does this mean that those roots are dead if they are that color? Just wondering. Tomc, I owe you 1 for that info about the blue Seal company. Hopefully they will have what I need. Thank You
The rootbound tree with brownish roots has probably been dry as a mummy's butt too many times.
Some of those roots will die (or are already dead).
My limited fix is to slip pot it up into a slightly bigger pot.
I don't like junipers for their unchanging nature. Deciduous conifers will show their hurts quicker.
Some of those roots will die (or are already dead).
My limited fix is to slip pot it up into a slightly bigger pot.
I don't like junipers for their unchanging nature. Deciduous conifers will show their hurts quicker.
Ok, so I slipped it into a wider pot a couple days ago. The smaller one can wait till spring as it's not as bad. TOMC; I called the blue seal people, and they have feed for chickens (witch is too small), cats, dogs, horses.....ect. Can you narrow down for me what exactly I need to get from blue seal? Is it horse feed? Also, this blue seal feed has granite in it (just curious). Another question is, why don't people just use cat litter since it's so readily available? Does the cat littler break down quickly, or retain too much moisture? I'd like to get whats best for my trees, and if Granite grit is best, then that is what I'd like to buy. I would think the granite grit would last a lot longer than cat litter before it breaks down. Anyways, I have all of Fall. and Winter to purchase sifting screens and grit. Thanks for all the help tomc.
Oh, just called the blue seal dude back and he said They may have bags of crushed granite, and he would get all the info about what sizes they have, crushed granite wise. Just have to call them back tomorrow morning. Hopefully I'm getting somewhere here.....lol
Oh, just called the blue seal dude back and he said They may have bags of crushed granite, and he would get all the info about what sizes they have, crushed granite wise. Just have to call them back tomorrow morning. Hopefully I'm getting somewhere here.....lol
What you want is stone grit all by itself. It does come in fifty pound bags. Probably the most common brand name is "Grani-Grit".
The very smallest sized is 'chick', I think 'grower' or 'layer' is closer to what I used to screen out of the gravel mill by-product.
These feed stores have sold to a declining population of farmers for all of my lifetime. Some clerks, are ahem asocial (read jerks) enough to ask intentionally misleading questions, and send new customers away out of spite. You want granite grit, not feed.
This is probably not the whole list, and I am provincial and shop where I know.
The big three feed stores:
Ralston-Purina
Agway
Blue Seal
Tractor Supply insists on hiring floor staff who are not paid well. As a result they get floor staff who don't know the product, don't care, and won't order anything (even to fill holes on their own shelves). I have stood in front of the item I wanted, and had the clerk tell me they didn't carry that item, more than once. Shop with them at your peril.
The very smallest sized is 'chick', I think 'grower' or 'layer' is closer to what I used to screen out of the gravel mill by-product.
These feed stores have sold to a declining population of farmers for all of my lifetime. Some clerks, are ahem asocial (read jerks) enough to ask intentionally misleading questions, and send new customers away out of spite. You want granite grit, not feed.
This is probably not the whole list, and I am provincial and shop where I know.
The big three feed stores:
Ralston-Purina
Agway
Blue Seal
Tractor Supply insists on hiring floor staff who are not paid well. As a result they get floor staff who don't know the product, don't care, and won't order anything (even to fill holes on their own shelves). I have stood in front of the item I wanted, and had the clerk tell me they didn't carry that item, more than once. Shop with them at your peril.
Thanks tomc. I now have enough info to locate the stone grit. The big juniper may have been too far gone to save before I bought it, but time will tell. It does have a good amount of new growth spurting from it. To close this thread properly I've posted a pic of the big juniper in it's new pot, and the smaller juniper. Not sure which branches to take off of the smaller one at this point. I've gotten rid of the ones I thought would not be needed in the future, but am at a standstill. I may wait until I get concave cutters, and some wire before I cut any more branches off. Since the smaller one is staying in it's pot this year, it would be a good time to style it. Or I could train it for many years. I noticed after I removed that lower branch that the trunk could use some fattening. All I have to do now, is get them through the winter. I was thinking of burying them in the ground, so they do not freeze too much 
, but that is a few months away. Have a great day everyone 
. Here's the pics:
, but that is a few months away. Have a great day everyone . Here's the pics:
Last edited by baileysup on Sun Jul 28, 2013 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Well, I re-potted both Junipers today, and went straight inorganic on that ass. Hopefully I didn't fuss about the roots too much, and time will tell. One thing's for sure, and that is I love pumice. Dry Stall all the way! Just screen it, cause it's very dusty. I'm just going to leave them in their large pots for now, and let them grow. Thanks for all of your help everyone. They are finally in a good substrate, and this should be a good year for them. I may post pics, but it was raining today. Cheers