Hi,
I think I received some poor advice. Recently an individual who seemed extremely knowledgeable recommended I use haydite (shale) screened to 1/4 inch size with my soil for deciduous and sub-tropical (1/2 pine/fir bark, 1/4 granite turface mix in equal proportions, and 1/4 haydite or high fired clay in one pot) seems like a great mix but it almost seems to drain too fast. Unfortunately I was so excited about the mix for some strange reason (maybe because it gave me a chance to play) that I potted 3 plants in it but now am kind of nervous. The trees (Yew, Burning Bush, Ficus) seem to be doing fine after a week or so but the more I think about it, the more nervous I get about the soil. All 3 of them are on the mid to large Shohin/Kifu size and are in deeper "training" pots
I would hate to repot them again already, but some consolation or advice would be very much appreciated. I'm in zone 4 (Minneapolis area in Minnesota).
Please don't scold me too much; I am already kicking myself in the rear so hard I can taste the dirt on my shoes.
I should amend that that the Shale and fired clay are 1/4 to just under 1/2 and the rest of the particles (pine/fur and turface/granite are all 1/4-1/16).
I use exclusively crushed granite grit (poultry scratch) in leu of other inert material for my soil. A local layer scratch is branded "grani-Grit". I have not had good luck with high-fired clay products (they melt into goo).
And roughly half screened pine bark mulch. Sifted as you describe it.
Only azalea get added peat, everything else gets stone and bark. With just a dash of compost.
My trees have lived in this soil since the middle nineties. Its all they get for dirt.
You will have to keep up on watering.
Should you repot? Perhaps in October if you find the clay breaking down. then you may need to repot.
Just cause I don't like high fired clay products, doesn't mean you need burn this bridge before you. Monitor your soil. Do what your soil demands if and when it does so.
And roughly half screened pine bark mulch. Sifted as you describe it.
Only azalea get added peat, everything else gets stone and bark. With just a dash of compost.
My trees have lived in this soil since the middle nineties. Its all they get for dirt.
You will have to keep up on watering.
Should you repot? Perhaps in October if you find the clay breaking down. then you may need to repot.
Just cause I don't like high fired clay products, doesn't mean you need burn this bridge before you. Monitor your soil. Do what your soil demands if and when it does so.
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Gnome
- Super Green Thumb
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eek,
I have used both Turface and Haydite and have found both to be stable. I do wonder though why you re-potted at this time of year? The Ficus should be fine but I'm a little concerned about the Burning Bush. I have no experience with Yew but was under the impression that spring would have been a better choice. What's done is done but I would think long and hard before re-potting soon.
Norm
I have used both Turface and Haydite and have found both to be stable. I do wonder though why you re-potted at this time of year? The Ficus should be fine but I'm a little concerned about the Burning Bush. I have no experience with Yew but was under the impression that spring would have been a better choice. What's done is done but I would think long and hard before re-potting soon.
Just keep up with your watering and you should be fine. A situation in which your soil requires daily watering is preferable to a soggy one.but it almost seems to drain too fast.
Norm
Thanks guys. The panic is subsiding a little.
I had no choice but to re-pot. Nursery clearance stock that just couldnt wait any longer all 3 were so root bound that there was barely any soil left. The burning bush had almost no soil.
My biggest concern (I have only ben doing bonsai for a couple of years but landscaping/gardening forever) in hind sight was the particle size difference between the haydite and the rest of the mix. All of the mix is is between 1/4-1/16 and the haydite is 1/2-1/4 and drains very well (pine bark is still saturated after watering so cant be too bad).
I'm usually not that impulsive with bonsai (quite the opposite), but for some reason I was this time and was having a panic attack about the trees.
Burning bush - Seems OK. I combed the roots out (severely root bound) but didnt cut much back at all. Cut the major branches back, but left enough foliage for now that she should be ok hanging out in the shade for a while. She was just so root bound that I couldnt wait any longer. Any advice to calm her stress would be very much appreciated.
I had no choice but to re-pot. Nursery clearance stock that just couldnt wait any longer all 3 were so root bound that there was barely any soil left. The burning bush had almost no soil.
My biggest concern (I have only ben doing bonsai for a couple of years but landscaping/gardening forever) in hind sight was the particle size difference between the haydite and the rest of the mix. All of the mix is is between 1/4-1/16 and the haydite is 1/2-1/4 and drains very well (pine bark is still saturated after watering so cant be too bad).
I'm usually not that impulsive with bonsai (quite the opposite), but for some reason I was this time and was having a panic attack about the trees.
Burning bush - Seems OK. I combed the roots out (severely root bound) but didnt cut much back at all. Cut the major branches back, but left enough foliage for now that she should be ok hanging out in the shade for a while. She was just so root bound that I couldnt wait any longer. Any advice to calm her stress would be very much appreciated.
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manofthetrees
- Senior Member
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- Location: west seneca ny
I agree w/ gnome and tom with the soil it will be fine ..with the clay you may have to repot more due to deterioration no biggy... the ficus and yew will be fine as long as they were healthy (yews grow the most roots in fall)
the b.b. on the other hand may have issues trying to recoupe before winter. try not to fertalize too much becuase it will confuse the tree into a growing pattern that may not stop by the time freezing temps come. if it isnt dormant by winter it will freeze and die .maybe a shot of superthrive in a week or 2 for some nutrients and a low dose of fert. then leave it
the b.b. on the other hand may have issues trying to recoupe before winter. try not to fertalize too much becuase it will confuse the tree into a growing pattern that may not stop by the time freezing temps come. if it isnt dormant by winter it will freeze and die .maybe a shot of superthrive in a week or 2 for some nutrients and a low dose of fert. then leave it
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Gnome
- Super Green Thumb
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- Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:17 am
- Location: Western PA USDA Zone 6A
eek,
Two thoughts:
In my experience Burning Bush only pushes one growth spurt a a year. If you have pruned the leaders they probably will not extend further this year but will instead set buds for next year.
Norm
Two thoughts:
You effective particle size will be dictated by the smaller of your particles. In other words, the smaller particles will reside between the larger ones and will, effectively, determine the soil characteristics.My biggest concern...was the particle size difference between the haydite and the rest of the mix. All of the mix is is between 1/4-1/16 and the haydite is 1/2-1/4
In my experience Burning Bush only pushes one growth spurt a a year. If you have pruned the leaders they probably will not extend further this year but will instead set buds for next year.
Norm
Thank you guys for the clarification on the particle size.
I think the fired clay will be fine. It was a small bag I picked up at the hydrponics store. I tested in a glass of water for about 3 days and did everything I could to crush it, but it was still hard as stone. I don't really care for the stuff because I am not big on round aggregate (messy and doesnt scoop consistently making it high maintenance). I will probably stick my Lava Rock and maybe the shale (which I really liked).
Do you guys think that I should let the BB do its own thing next summer and stay away from any wiring until late next winter? She has a beautiful thick trunk with an awesome taper and some solid nebari for a clearance BB. Gonna be phenominal some day.
I think the fired clay will be fine. It was a small bag I picked up at the hydrponics store. I tested in a glass of water for about 3 days and did everything I could to crush it, but it was still hard as stone. I don't really care for the stuff because I am not big on round aggregate (messy and doesnt scoop consistently making it high maintenance). I will probably stick my Lava Rock and maybe the shale (which I really liked).
Do you guys think that I should let the BB do its own thing next summer and stay away from any wiring until late next winter? She has a beautiful thick trunk with an awesome taper and some solid nebari for a clearance BB. Gonna be phenominal some day.
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manofthetrees
- Senior Member
- Posts: 236
- Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:14 pm
- Location: west seneca ny