Please Help! - Sapling Identification and Advice...

[LiddleBuddha]

Hi Everybody,

I hope all of you had a great weekend! Okay, here's the latest (Oh boy! )...

I went to the Lowes Garden Center on Saturday. I wanted a Chinese Juniper, but no dice with a Chinese Juniper. Either they sold them all or returned them or something. They had a number of other Junipers, some 1 gallon size, some 2 gallon.

First:
Can anyone recommend a variety to choose? They had the following kinds of Juniper at Lowes: Japanese, Blue Rug, Sargent, among a couple others that I can't recall at the moment, (but that didn't seem like especially good bonsai material). If anyone has a good recommendation I will go back today and try to find one with good roots and trunk formation.

Second:
Lowes also had interesting rhododendrons. They were a miniature or dwarf variety. Had very small leaves and flowers compared to the common large-leafed rhododendron seen in yards around my area (Southeastern PA). Would something like that make a good bonsai? I'm sorry I can't remember the exact name.

Third:
My mom allowed me to dig up (very carefully) a few saplings from her yard yesterday. I have attached some pictures below. (And plenty of questions ) ...

Here are my questions about the saplings:
1 - Can anyone tell me what kind of tree this is? (There is one large sapling and 6 smaller ones). I think it might be a Common Needle Juniper, or maybe a Spruce of some type?
2 - I repotted them yesterday in some regular potting soil for now. Will this be okay temporarily?
3 - I didn't water them yesterday. Should I water them? If so, how much?
4 - They are outside where they'll get morning sun and some afternoon sun, but shade during hottest times of day, (not that it's hot here lately. It's been in the 20's to 40's). Is this the proper light/shade requirements?
5 - When should I transplant them to larger individual planters?
6 - Would these saplings make decent bonsai? (Perhaps a nice group planting bonsai?)

[url=https://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tree1sz1.jpg][img]https://img239.imageshack.us/img239/619/tree1sz1.th.jpg[/img][/url]

[url=https://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tree2ph1.jpg][img]https://img239.imageshack.us/img239/7401/tree2ph1.th.jpg[/img][/url]

[url=https://img120.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tree5da8.jpg][img]https://img120.imageshack.us/img120/2943/tree5da8.th.jpg[/img][/url]

[url=https://img372.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tree6wn0.jpg][img]https://img372.imageshack.us/img372/3809/tree6wn0.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Okay, I think that's it for the moment ( )hehe..

Any advice, thoughts, expertise will be greatly appreciated, and I will do everything I can to make everyone proud!

Thanks!
- LB

[JoeLewko]

sounds like you had a busy weekend

I'll try to answer some of your questions.

First
Japanese juniper are probably one of the most common species for bonsai, or at least what most non-bonsai entuhiasts think of when they hear the word bonsai. Japanese junipers make suitable bonsai, I'm partial to them myself.

Second
I'll admit I have no clue ynot, care to take that one

Third:
I'm not sure what variety that is, I can't really identify specific conifer species too well, sorry.

I repotted them yesterday in some regular potting soil for now. Will this be okay temporarily?

Define temporarily. Actually, on second thought, it is best to get them into bonsai soil asap. They can take another repotting, and it is necessary they get into proper bonsai soil.

I didn't water them yesterday. Should I water them? If so, how much?

Depends. Stick a toothpick into the soil, and if soil sticks to it, no need to water. However, since you said you used potting soil, if they have been watered since repotting, my guess is the soil is still wet. Is that so? Never water bonsai based on schedule, only when they need it. I think the best thing is to get into some bonsai soil, as bonsial soil should be free draining. See ynot's sticky for more info on soil
https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3422

I know I didn't adress all your question, but I have to run for now, I'm sure ynot/gnome/tom will be happy to cover everything as well...right guys?

[LiddleBuddha]

JoeLewko,

Thanks for replying with all of that info!

First
Japanese juniper are probably one of the most common species for bonsai, or at least what most non-bonsai entuhiasts think of when they hear the word bonsai. Japanese junipers make suitable bonsai, I'm partial to them myself.

Awesome! This is great to know! Lowes had some nice looking Japanese Junipers. I think I was overwhelmed by all the different varieties on Saturday though.

I didn't even realize that Sargent Juniper (Juniperus chinensis var. sargentii) is just a variety of Chinese Juniper (Juniperus chinensis). Silly me!

Second
I'll admit I have no clue ynot, care to take that one

Yeah, ynot!?! Whud up whup up?! Holla holla. Haha, just bustin yer chops.

Third:
I'm not sure what variety that is, I can't really identify specific conifer species too well, sorry.

No worries.

Define temporarily. Actually, on second thought, it is best to get them into bonsai soil asap. They can take another repotting, and it is necessary they get into proper bonsai soil.

I was thinking probably for a couple of weeks. I'm probably going to order some pre-prepared bonsai soil, but I'm also researching ingredients for mixing my own. Perhaps I should order pre-prepared soil sooner than later!

Depends. Stick a toothpick into the soil, and if soil sticks to it, no need to water.

Okey dokes, will do...

However, since you said you used potting soil, if they have been watered since repotting, my guess is the soil is still wet. Is that so?

Welp.. The soil is pretty moist. But I did not add any water after repotting because I have read that Junipers prefer soil to go a little dry. But if I should water after digging up and re-potting to aid in any shock/recovery, I can certainly do so.

Also, when I dug them up I was able to get most of the existing soil off the roots without damaging the roots. I carefully placed the seedlings/saplings in the pot and gently covered the roots with the soil. I did not compress the soil very much at all.

I know I didn't adress all your question, but I have to run for now

It is all good, my friend. I appreciate any and all info! Thanks very much for your time, opinions, information, knowledge! Catch ya later.

Best,
- LB

[JoeLewko]

I was thinking probably for a couple of weeks. I'm probably going to order some pre-prepared bonsai soil, but I'm also researching ingredients for mixing my own. Perhaps I should order pre-prepared soil sooner than later!

It needs to be sooner. Order some pre-made soil as soon as possible, then later you can start researching and buying components to make your own, but right now you need some proper soil.

Also, when I dug them up I was able to get most of the existing soil off the roots without damaging the roots.

Good, IMO that is one of the hardest parts of repotting. Especially if the plant is rootbound

Well, sorry again, but I need to go, I'll respond to the rest later

Unless someone beats me to it

Joe

[constantstaticx3]

First off, I'm not an expert on collecting trees so I'll do my best. How were the roots when you collected them? Were they fibrous were there a lot of thick roots? Please elaborate.

Second, I believe it might be some kind of cedar, I see seedlings like this growing all over the place.

Third, Joe is right with the soil although I don't think it has to be so urgent, the treesmay need some time to recover from being collected so the proboly wont be growing so soon, not sure on this but thats just what I think.

Yes you should have watered it in to help the soil settle and this will also help the trees recover some what.

Are all these trees kept in the same pot? Its hard to tell but it looks like there are a few in the same pot. You may want to plant them all in separate pots.

LB, any tree can be turned into a bonsai. If the rhododendrons have small leaves then they may work well as bonsai. I cant really tell cause I haven't seen them. Its really all in what you like, all those junipers can be made into bonsai. I've seen some great sargent juniper bonsai I might go for that one if your having trouble choosing.

Tom

[Gnome]

LB,

Second:
Lowes also had interesting rhododendrons. They were a miniature or dwarf variety. Had very small leaves and flowers compared to the common large-leafed rhododendron seen in yards around my area (Southeastern PA). Would something like that make a good bonsai? I'm sorry I can't remember the exact name.

Azaleas make fine flowering bonsai. There are so many hybrids and cultivars that you need a scorecard to keep track of them. I won't pretend to understand their relationships. Consider this though, all Azaleas are Rhododendrons. So what is an Azalea if not a dwarf Rhododendron? I think one of my plants that I think of as an Azalea was actually labeled as you describe.

Make sure you find one with a trunk-line, all too often these are nothing but a mass of small shoots. Spend some time looking, expect to get dirty and perhaps a few dirty looks.

You really should have had your soil on hand before you dug the trees. If you re-pot again soon that is an unnecessary stress that could have easily been avoided, patience is the watchword for bonsai. Consider using pond baskets, they provide excellent drainage and promote strong root development.

I agree that a thorough watering is essential when re-potting almost anything. This helps to eliminate large air pockets and settles the soil around the roots ensuring good contact.

Norm

[LiddleBuddha]

Hi Everyone,

First off, thank you ALL for your great replies! Lots of great advice! ...

JoeLewko,

It needs to be sooner. Order some pre-made soil as soon as possible, then later you can start researching and buying components to make your own, but right now you need some proper soil.

Got ya. I will order some soil ASAP.

constantstaticx3,

First off, I'm not an expert on collecting trees so I'll do my best. How were the roots when you collected them? Were they fibrous were there a lot of thick roots? Please elaborate.

On the larger tree there were some thick roots and some fibrous roots. On the very small seedlings/saplings, there were mostly fibrous roots, with the exception of 2 or 3 which had a relatively long tap root.

Second, I believe it might be some kind of cedar, I see seedlings like this growing all over the place.

Awesome! Thanks! I will look that up and see what I can find out.

Yes you should have watered it in to help the soil settle and this will also help the trees recover some what.

Uh-oh, oops! My bad. I will water this eve right after work. Hopefully they will survive. If not, there were others that I can dig up.

Are all these trees kept in the same pot? Its hard to tell but it looks like there are a few in the same pot. You may want to plant them all in separate pots.

They are all currently in the same pot. This can be remedied quite easily. I have a bunch of smaller pots.

LB, any tree can be turned into a bonsai. If the rhododendrons have small leaves then they may work well as bonsai. I cant really tell cause I haven't seen them. Its really all in what you like, all those junipers can be made into bonsai. I've seen some great sargent juniper bonsai I might go for that one if your having trouble choosing.

Thanks for this info! I may pick one of those small rhododendrons. I looked at them again last night. They bloom with very nice small purple flowers.

Gnome,

Azaleas make fine flowering bonsai. There are so many hybrids and cultivars that you need a scorecard to keep track of them. I won't pretend to understand their relationships. Consider this though, all Azaleas are Rhododendrons. So what is an Azalea if not a dwarf Rhododendron? I think one of my plants that I think of as an Azalea was actually labeled as you describe.

This is fantastic news! I think I will end up getting one of these from Lowes.

Make sure you find one with a trunk-line, all too often these are nothing but a mass of small shoots. Spend some time looking, expect to get dirty and perhaps a few dirty looks.

I looked at trees at Lowes last night. I purchased 4! (I'll creat a post about them shortly.) I looked at the mini-rhododendrons. They had a few with only one trunk and decent trunk lines. I dug around in the pots and did not have much success uncovering the roots. So the roots didn't thrill me. Furthermore, the trunks were not very thick. However, they seemed to be fairly young plants. So perhaps I will try to pick one out anyway and give it a shot.

You really should have had your soil on hand before you dug the trees. If you re-pot again soon that is an unnecessary stress that could have easily been avoided, patience is the watchword for bonsai. Consider using pond baskets, they provide excellent drainage and promote strong root development.

Ugh, oops. It's looking like I might need to dig up the others soon and re-try this. My mom said she is just going to mow over the saplings. But I'm sure I still have time.

Thanks for recommending the pond-baskets! I did notice some dialogue about the pond baskets in one of the threads somewhere. I will definitely look into those.

I agree that a thorough watering is essential when re-potting almost anything. This helps to eliminate large air pockets and settles the soil around the roots ensuring good contact.

D'OH! As I mentioned above, I'll definitely water them this evening. But I am wondering if it's not too late? I guess we shall see. Live and learn. Live and learn. hehe...

Okay, I definitely have a game plan now. I really appreciate all of your advice and suggestions, guys! I'm going to do my best to remedy the situation with those dug up liddle trees. I'll probably dig up the rest too just in case. Those ones will go right into bonsai soil and promptly get a thorough watering.

I'm going to create a post about the new trees I purchased last night ... In just a minute! Thanks again for your time and help, everyone!

Regards,
- LB

[ynot]

LB, Sorry for the delay- Been out of town.

They had a number of other Junipers, some 1 gallon size, some 2 gallon.

.., Suitable, Go on....

Can anyone recommend a variety to choose? They had the following kinds of Juniper at Lowes: Japanese, Blue Rug, Sargent, among a couple others that I can't recall at the moment, (but that didn't seem like especially good bonsai material). If anyone has a good recommendation I will go back today and try to find one with good roots and trunk formation.

Use what you like, For now it is as simple as that.
IMO {And if my memory is correct} I wouldn't pick the Blue rug [You may have noticed they have a very prostrate growth habit and the ones at the box stores tend to be spindly little things as they are intended for more of a sort of ground cover type use.]

Lowes also had interesting rhododendrons. They were a miniature or dwarf variety. Had very small leaves and flowers compared to the common large-leafed rhododendron seen in yards around my area (Southeastern PA). Would something like that make a good bonsai? I'm sorry I can't remember the exact name.

As Gnome mentioned Rhoadie=Azalea...Same thing, FUN when flowering but they have some odd rules wrt pruning if you insist on having the blooms. The root system can get very dense and fibrous on these as well.

Third:

My mom allowed me to dig up (very carefully) a few saplings from her yard yesterday. I have attached some pictures below. (And plenty of questions ) ...

Here are my questions about the saplings:
1 - Can anyone tell me what kind of tree this is? (There is one large sapling and 6 smaller ones). I think it might be a Common Needle Juniper, or maybe a Spruce of some type?

It could also possible be a Yew. Compare the foliage with that on this page[url=https://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&gbv=2&safe=off&client=firefox-a&channel=s&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=taxus+foliage&btnG=Search+Images]here.[/url]

If so see here= https://www.bonsai4me.com/SpeciesGuide/Taxus.html

2 - I repotted them yesterday in some regular potting soil for now. Will this be okay temporarily?

The best choice would have been to leave them in the ground to develop for a bit- But that is monday morning quarterbacking [As far as I know considering I don't care a bit about football ...] [As Gnome mentioned repotting a tree is a stressfull event for the tree.

3 - I didn't water them yesterday. Should I water them? If so, how much?

Yes always water after a repot as it helps the soil to settle in around the roots [Glad to hear you did not push/compress the soil when repotting BTW-Use a chopstick or other implement to work the soil around/down/through the roots]

4 - They are outside where they'll get morning sun and some afternoon sun, but shade during hottest times of day, (not that it's hot here lately. It's been in the 20's to 40's). Is this the proper light/shade requirements?

Difficult to say yes without a species ID- It sounds ok though you may want to limit it's afternoon sun for a bit..[Precautionary- It never hurts:)]

5 - When should I transplant them to larger individual planters?

You have plenty of time for that my man. No need to rush.

Would these saplings make decent bonsai? (Perhaps a nice group planting bonsai?)

Saplings are...exactly that. Perhaps eventually.

I Would absolutely make ID-ing these guys my first priority. All else is guesswork.

Surf some google images and compare them to the parent trees around where you got them from.

Again, Sorry I am Late [Gone AWOL ]

ynot

PS: I am off to look at your thread about your New trees...

[LiddleBuddha]

ynot,

LB, Sorry for the delay- Been out of town.

No worries. Hopefully at least some of it was for fun and play!

I wouldn't pick the Blue rug [You may have noticed they have a very prostrate growth habit and the ones at the box stores tend to be spindly little things as they are intended for more of a sort of ground cover type use.]

Ya, I didn't like the Blue Rug Juniper. The ones they had looked decent enough, but I just didn't like them. Possibly a good cultivar for a cascade style bonsai? Dunno.

As Gnome mentioned Rhoadie=Azalea...Same thing, FUN when flowering but they have some odd rules wrt pruning if you insist on having the blooms. The root system can get very dense and fibrous on these as well.

That's awesome about the roots and flowers! They had ones with blooms on them and ones with buds. The flowers were very cool. They didn't have the best roots and mostly they had skinny trunks. But perhaps I should read up about them and consider going back for one. Hmm...

It could also possible be a Yew. Compare the foliage with that on this page here.

Thanks for this link. I'm definitely going to check it out today.

If so see here= https://www.bonsai4me.com/SpeciesGuide/Taxus.html

And for this link too!

The best choice would have been to leave them in the ground to develop for a bit- But that is monday morning quarterbacking [As far as I know considering I don't care a bit about football ...] [As Gnome mentioned repotting a tree is a stressfull event for the tree.

Got ya. Unfortunately my mom was talking about busting out the lawnmower fairly soon, (I don't know why, it's still pretty friggin cold here.) But perhaps I can get an exact lawnmower unveiling day and get the other saplings just before she mows.

Yes always water after a repot as it helps the soil to settle in around the roots [Glad to hear you did not push/compress the soil when repotting BTW-Use a chopstick or other implement to work the soil around/down/through the roots]

Thanks man. This is good to know. I really wish I would've watered those right away.

You have plenty of time for that my man. No need to rush.

Okey dokes. Sounds good.

I Would absolutely make ID-ing these guys my first priority. All else is guesswork.

Got it. Will do. If I can't ID based on the links you sent me, or otherwise, I'll go to the library this eve and see what books they have available.

Again, Sorry I am Late [Gone AWOL ]

That does it! You're hereby court-martialled.

PS: I am off to look at your thread about your New trees...

Sweet! Looking forward to your comments!

Aiight, I'm gonna try to post those new pics in a sec. Laters!

- LB