What to do with boxed bonsai?

[snaps48]

Hello, my name is aly, and, as you can probably guess, I'm new to this group and to the world of bonsai. This place looks like a great treasure trove of information.

Now as for my question:

I mentioned that I thought bonsai was cool, and wound up getting three for my birthday. I have no doubt they're of Walmart-esque origins, and that they're nothing special.

In trying to figure out what to do with these plants, I've looked on-line quite a bit and read Indoor Bonsai for Beginners by Werner M. Busch. I've come to the conclusion that I'm in over my head. I have no idea what to do and am vastly overwhelmed by the amount of information (not to mention contradicting information) available.

I'm hoping that I can get a very simple starting point? I'm hoping I'm not a lost cause as I do think bonsai are cool, I simply did not think I would be getting one and, if I were, I think I'd be more inclined to do it as many suggest: by getting a nursery specimen instead of a walmart plant.

Attached are pictures (two views of each). Thanks in advance for any/all help and advice you can give me.

~aly

Plant 1:





Plant 2:





Plant 3:

[Gnome]

Aly,

Hello and welcome to the Helpful Gardener Forums. I'm glad to hear that you have been doing some reading. Bonsai is a very deep subject, not getting philosophical just pointing out that there are many layers and much to learn. If you stay with it you will have successes and failures, enjoy the successes and try to learn from your mistakes.

Your first two trees appear to be Ficus microcarpa. Look here for information about indoor bonsai in general and Ficus in particular. Also if you use the search function here you will find numerous threads about Ficus.

The third tree may be a Juniper but I am not 100% sure. Regardless, I am much more sure in saying that it is an outdoor tree and should be placed outside as soon as this recent cold snap passes.

Please read the sticky threads at the top of this forum regarding soils and re-potting as the soil the Juniper is in looks to be very organic in nature. Not as critical for the Ficus but far from ideal for an evergreen.

Look here for basic bonsai tips. Look first for the sections on watering and soils.

Don't hesitate to ask if you have any specific questions.

Norm

[snaps48]

Thank you very much for the help. I've read the suggested sites, and they contain much good information.

My problems seems to be that a lot of what's out there seems to be for people starting with a brand new plant (sorry I don't know the correct terminology yet). While I know that mine aren't old or good, they don't seem to be that blank canvas most of these resources expect you to have for the beginner guides.

A specific question would be where do I start? Do I worry about the leaves? The roots? You mentioned changing the soil for the juniper, and I will do that shortly, as sooon as I order some soil. Should I be training them yet? I read that the ficus will drop their leaves during any shock---should wait for a while and let them acclimate before I do anything?

I know this is a lot, but I really have no idea of where to start with this. I understand that this will be very much a learning experience, and am looking forward to it, but I don't know where I should begin.

Thanks again,
~aly

[ynot]

Thank you very much for the help. I've read the suggested sites, and they contain much good information.

Glad to see you have read them- Excellent sites

Welcome aly,

My problems seems to be that a lot of what's out there seems to be for people starting with a brand new plant (sorry I don't know the correct terminology yet). While I know that mine aren't old or good, they don't seem to be that blank canvas most of these resources expect you to have for the beginner guides.

[Excepting some final refinement tecniques .] The principles are still applicable to your trees. [The blank canvas can also be applied to the owner as opposed to the tree ,] Also if their are elements/aspects of your trees you would like to change sometimes a major restyling is in order and this can require an almost ground up restyling.

A specific question would be where do I start? Do I worry about the leaves? The roots? You mentioned changing the soil for the juniper, and I will do that shortly, as sooon as I order some soil. Should I be training them yet? I read that the ficus will drop their leaves during any shock---should wait for a while and let them acclimate before I do anything?

New soil is an excellent start. To answer 'Where do I start?' Do you have specific issues wrt the trees you would like to address or are you looking for styling suggestions/options...Just wondering what your looking for here. As Gnome mentioned bonsai is a massive topic....

I know this is a lot, but I really have no idea of where to start with this. I understand that this will be very much a learning experience, and am looking forward to it, but I don't know where I should begin.

An understandable feeling.
First and foremost, Keep soaking up as much info as possible. I cannot overestimate or emphasize enough the amount of good every little bit of research will do you. Experience only accumulates over time but you can wrap your head around a lot of info during that time.

ynot

[snaps48]

First a soil question. I found something that appears to be all very small rocks---maybe 1/16" cubed. From what I've read, bonsai soil should be a mix of things, but it said it was "bonsai soil," so I'm skeptical. Is this better than potting soil for the immediate future?

Specific issues with the trees, well, I'm not sure the bottom part of the ficus trees should be like they are? All photos I've seen have the base, well, more together. Should they be? Can they be? If so, how would I do that?

And any/all styling suggestions/options would be much appreciated. I basically have three trees and no idea what to do with them (read: the blank canvas thing, with no canvas yet streched over the frame).

Thanks,
~aly

[Gnome]

Aly,

First a soil question. I found something that appears to be all very small rocks---maybe 1/16" cubed. From what I've read, bonsai soil should be a mix of things, but it said it was "bonsai soil," so I'm skeptical. Is this better than potting soil for the immediate future?

Bonsai soil, actually no soil at all, can be homogeneous or a blend of many different components. What components, or product, you choose depends on a variety of factors such as species, your location, your available time and even what you have access to. For instance I refuse to pay for imported bonsai soils preferring instead to utilize domestic products.

More specifically, Ficus can do well with a soil much higher in organics than most evergreens which are often grown in a primarily inorganic mix. Can you post a link to the product you located so we can evaluate it? Please do not even consider conventional potting soil.

Specific issues with the trees, well, I'm not sure the bottom part of the ficus trees should be like they are? All photos I've seen have the base, well, more together. Should they be? Can they be? If so, how would I do that?

Although I don't grow this particular Ficus it is my understanding that it simply is in their nature to grow this way. Learn to love them, get some other plants or both.

And any/all styling suggestions/options would be much appreciated. I basically have three trees and no idea what to do with them (read: the blank canvas thing, with no canvas yet streched over the frame).

Get the evergreen, all three of them for that matter, into a better soil as soon as possible, styling can come later, it is still a young tree. The Ficus can be pruned in a shorter time frame, although they will benefit from a period of unrestricted growth as well. There have been a few threads about styling ficus in recent months, you can easily find them by using the search feature.

Norm

[ynot]

First a soil question. I found something that appears to be all very small rocks---maybe 1/16" cubed. From what I've read, bonsai soil should be a mix of things, but it said it was "bonsai soil," so I'm skeptical. Is this better than potting soil for the immediate future?

Yes, Potting soil is most emphatically not an option. This threadmay help a bit wrt soil. Also do take a look at the soil in the video contained in the 'rootpruning sticky' and see if that resembles what you refer to.
As Gnome notes 'Bonsai soil' is a bit of a misnomer. [Noticed his post during editing..]

Specific issues with the trees, well, I'm not sure the bottom part of the ficus trees should be like they are? All photos I've seen have the base, well, more together. Should they be? Can they be? If so, how would I do that?

I am glad to hear you have been looking things up.

Well, "Should they be?" is fairly subjective and wrt this species you are a bit stuck as these bulbous roots are typical. Possibly replanting them could minimize this issue but we can address that further if you wish.
The new soil is your first priority though.

And any/all styling suggestions/options would be much appreciated. I basically have three trees and no idea what to do with them (read: the blank canvas thing, with no canvas yet streched over the frame).

'No frame'

The ficus look to require some fairly hard pruning to style them, Subsequent good lighting [Outside would be good- when the temps are appropriate] would help them to develop smaller foliage and a tighter growth habit.
The juniper will need some pinching, See the bottom of this page.


ynot

[snaps48]

Norm - This is the soil I saw: http://www.bonsaiboy.com/catalog/product1129.html

Norm & Ynot - Thank you both so much for all of the help you are offering! You're great!

As for the potting soil comment, got it. Ix-nay on the potting soil. What I had meant, though, was would this/something similar be better than the potting soil it came in for the short term. I may be able to get that more quickly than a completely appropriate soil.

I assume from your comment, Norm, that I'll need two types of soil? One for the ficus and one for the juniper, since they require different organic content? I'll go read those threads you both mentioned before asking any additional questions.

Thanks,
~aly

[ynot]

Norm - This is the soil I saw: http://www.bonsaiboy.com/catalog/product1129.html

OK, This is an entirely inorganic substrate made of fired shale. While I would consider this fine as a component in your soil, I hesitate to suggest it to you as a sole component. [In some trees I use a similar material as my only potting medium] but for your trees I would suggest possibly one of these other options:

[Keep in mind I mix my own soil so I have no personal experience with these soil suggestions.]

Possibly the Conifer mix [for the Juniper] and the tropical mix [Ficus] from
here.

Or This for your ficus & This for your Juniper. I believe the juniper soil needs an additional screening to remove the fine particles here.

Norm & Ynot - Thank you both so much for all of the help you are offering! You're great!

Your welcome.

As for the potting soil comment, got it. Ix-nay on the potting soil. What I had meant, though, was would this/something similar be better than the potting soil it came in for the short term. I may be able to get that more quickly than a completely appropriate soil.

Considering repotting is stressful on the treess, IMO it is better to take the time to research a bit and get proper soil so as to only put the trees through repotting once. On a bonsai scale - A bit of time will make no difference & they appear in good health.

I assume from your comment, Norm, that I'll need two types of soil? One for the ficus and one for the juniper, since they require different organic content? I'll go read those threads you both mentioned before asking any additional questions.

Not to speak for Gnome... But sort of.
Very generally: Ficus require a higher moisture content to their soil than Junipers.
In bonsai this is accomplished by having a higher % of organic material in the ficus soil composition [As organics retain more moisture, More of them in the pot =higher moisture retention.]

It is entirely feasible to simply purchase one soil and amend it to suit the other species if you were so inclined.

BTW: I was thrilled to hear you would rather be nursery shopping for potential bonsai - Good call .

ynot

[Gnome]

Aly,

Norm & Ynot - Thank you both so much for all of the help you are offering! You're great!

You're very welcome, I know what it is like to have questions and not know where to turn. When I started bonsai (the first time) I had two short magazine articles as resources. It did not go well.

As Ynot has noted the page you linked to shows what appears to be a totally inorganic soil that I too would consider as only a component. In fact it sounds an awful lot like the Haydite that I use as one of my inorganic components, the other being lava rock.

What I had meant, though, was would this/something similar be better than the potting soil it came in for the short term. I may be able to get that more quickly than a completely appropriate soil.

I see now what you have in mind and once again I concur with Ynot, re-potting is not something you want to do twice in a short time frame. There are numerous places to purchase ready made soils if that is the way you want to go, you can get any of them just as quickly.

I assume from your comment, Norm, that I'll need two types of soil? One for the ficus and one for the juniper, since they require different organic content?

Ideally yes, but depending on what soil you acquire you may be able to get by with a single product. It will be a compromise, a little too lean for the Ficus and a little too rich for the Juniper. This can be compensated for somewhat by adjusting your watering practices, but you should closely monitor that anyway. Your other option would be to purchase enough of the leaner (less organics) mix and add some more organics at home.

Norm

[snaps48]

So my soils (2 types) came, which I ordered as recommended from the hollow creek site. I've read the suggested thread/sites, and from what I gather, I should clear the roots of their old soil by gently running water over them. Then replant with the new soil and immerse and let soak for fivish minutes.

For now, it seems as though I should completely ignore roots/foliage, as I have no idea what I'm doing with either. That way, it can get used to its new soil. And I shouldn't fertilize for a few weeks, either.

Is any of that correct?

I also ordered humidity trays to put the ficus on.

Is there anything else I should do/know before I put them in the new soil?

Thanks again!
~aly

[ynot]

So my soils (2 types) came, which I ordered as recommended from the hollow creek site. I've read the suggested thread/sites, and from what I gather, I should clear the roots of their old soil by gently running water over them. Then replant with the new soil and immerse and let soak for fivish minutes.

Yep, That's A short sweet synopsis.

Don't forget when putting the new soil in to use a chopstick [or similar: Screwdriver, Skewer ect...] To help work the soil into all the nooks and crannies and throughout the root system. Add some soil-work it in-add some soil-work it in...lather rinse repeat...lol.
Personally, I prefer a chopstick but then again I love any reason to order Chinese food .

Don't forget to have a mister handy to keep the root system moist if it will be sitting around for a while. Sometimes I just plunk the entire root system in a bucket or bowl of water [Depends on the size ] if I am washing the pot out or doing something that takes a little bit of time.

For now, it seems as though I should completely ignore roots/foliage, as I have no idea what I'm doing with either. That way, it can get used to its new soil. And I shouldn't fertilize for a few weeks, either.


Is any of that correct?

The simpler the better for now so Yes, Yes, and Yes,

Is there anything else I should do/know before I put them in the new soil?

Actually, I can't think of a thing . [Anyone else...Anyone?...Anyone?... Beuller?... Beuller?.. ]

It really is easier to do than to describe [as you will soon find out ] and the confidence you gain from this experience will be awesome. Especially as you see the benefits of good soil.

Do remember to check them every day for moisture from here on out as this soil will retain less moisture and you may find your self watering more often [Only as needed though]

If you feel your able to, DO take some pictures during the process [Some of each root system, Before, After etc...] You really cannot take too many pictures ...

Looking forward to hearing how it went.

ynot

[JoeLewko]

Personally, I prefer a chopstick but then again I love any reason to order Chinese food .

Yes chinese food is amazing. I was actually lucky enough to know someone who had orded a case of plastic chopsticks, and since i never use 'em anyway, i figured, why not use them for bonsai? They'll last forever, so it's pretty sweet.

Is there anything else I should do/know before I put them in the new soil?

Actually, I can't think of a thing . [Anyone else...Anyone?...Anyone?... Beuller?... Beuller?.. ]

Well, i just want to sya, don't make the mistake i have in the past, and be careful when removing the soil not to damage (remove) too many roots. It's important you keep as many fiborous feeder roots as possible (unlike i did, and well that didn't go so welll...). just something to keep in mind, this stuff takes time, i just recently pruned/wired/repotted a boxwood form stock, and as these guys know, it took me a good 2.5-3 hours (then again I'm rather slow ). There's no rush to any of this.

If you feel your able to, DO take some pictures during the process [Some of each root system, Before, After etc...] You really cannot take too many pictures ...

Yes please lots of pics

Have fun

Joe

[ynot]

I was actually lucky enough to know someone who had orded a case of plastic chopsticks, and since I never use 'em anyway, I figured, why not use them for bonsai? They'll last forever, so it's pretty sweet.

I hope your not using them to check for moisture .

Well, I just want to sya, don't make the mistake I have in the past, and be careful when removing the soil not to damage (remove) too many roots. It's important you keep as many fiborous feeder roots as possible (unlike I did, and well that didn't go so welll...). just something to keep in mind, this stuff takes time, I just recently pruned/wired/repotted a boxwood form stock, and as these guys know, it took me a good 2.5-3 hours (then again I'm rather slow ). There's no rush to any of this.

Rather slow indeed, Maybe your third repotting will go better Joe...lol Watch those feeder roots.

Snaps,
The amount of time stated above is not really relevant to you as you have no wiring or root-pruning to do. Don't worry about watching the clock.
[But do keep the roots moist as previously mentioned.]

ynot

[snaps48]

Well, I don't think the term "learning experience" quite covers it. I think I knew, intellectually speaking, that these were plants and what not, but I'm rather sure I didn't quite comprehend that this was Gardening. But, I've managed to survive. Barely.

So, what have I learned? Bonsai soil is messy. Very messy. Messier than regular soil. And very, very hard to get wet all the way through.

But I'll start at the beginning. With the juniper. I forgot to take pictures while I was doing this guy. I got him out of the old soil and, through soaking and running water, managed to get him clean. This one was the easiest, I think because he's the smallest. But a lot of stuff fell off of the branches when I was handling him. Well, it seemed like a lot.

Pictures of him now:





Done with that, I felt slightly more comfortable moving on to the ficus. They're probably at least twice as large. Did the same, found it much harder. And, I found out, the soil was much harder to deal with. I did what I could. This time I remembered about picturing the roots. Pictures:

Ficus 1:










Ficus 2:









Exhausted. Wow. I don't think I realized quite what this venture meant when I started. But it was fun, too.

Any thoughts/advice? My Ficus 2 is turning yellow. I've read that they drop their leaves at the drop of a hat. Should I be overly concerned?

Thanks,
~aly