boxwood stock

[ynot]

I was that bad if not worse at wiring when I first started so your not alone, practice makes perfect. You could find a few dead branches in your backyard to practice on.

, Me too! & Practice does make...improvement..

I may get to my tree today if not tommorow. If you don't fell comfortable about cutting it back really hard just wait until I post my pics and you'll feel better.

Show him the way Tom.

ynot

[JoeLewko]

yeah I'll wait for your pics tomorrow, and maybe I'll do some more work. Look for the rest of the pic series on the htread in the gallery area

[constantstaticx3]

Practice does make...improvement..

Good point, no one is really ever perfect, they are just really super incredible at it .

Tom

[ynot]

Practice does make...improvement..

Good point, no one is really ever perfect, they are just really super incredible at it .
Tom

No doubt, I would die of old age trying to [Successfully, without error :P:roll:] wire that way , And I am not old at all.

Lucky for me I am not a person who cares really if my wiring is drop dead gorgeous [I don't show my trees so..:shrug:].

I do want it to be effective though, Which was my point to Joe. [No point otherwise ya know?]

Keep practicing

ynot

[JoeLewko]

although it may look horrible, it is holding in the position I initially wired it in, and that's what's important right? Assuming I left this tree as is, I was thinking of forming like a canopy, something liks this

[img]https://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m204/joelewko/boxwoodvitr.jpg[/img]

please excuse my very crude drawing, I think you get the idea, but do you think that can be done? I would have to stop growth at the top, (not let it get taller), thin out the bottom, and prune at the actual canopy, to get more new growth and make it more dense. Thoughts?
Also, both Tom and ynot, please look at the gallery I posted
(https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4608)I want to hear both of your opinions on whether or not I rootpruned too much. also, how long do you think the wire should stay on? I know it depends, and can range, but knowing ynot that you have experience with boxwoods, what seems to be the norm?
Thanks
Joe

[ynot]

although it may look horrible, it is holding in the position I initially wired it in, and that's what's important right?

Yep.

please excuse my very crude drawing, I think you get the idea, but do you think that can be done?

I would have to stop growth at the top, (not let it get taller), thin out the bottom, and prune at the actual canopy, to get more new growth and make it more dense. Thoughts?

If I understand you correctly you want to eliminate the growth along the branches & have it just spread out at the very tips of the branches... Yet not get any taller.

I think were you to succeed you will end up with a canopy on top of the current fence.

If you look at the scale of your virt [not bad man, No worries] You will see that it has a powerful trunk that does well to lead the eye to the canopy.
However, Your actual tree has far more branch than trunk as it currently sits. Also the thicker branches of your virt are not going to happen either if you :
"I would have to stop growth at the top, (not let it get taller), thin out the bottom"

This is contrary to the principles of growth.

I don't think the oncoming growth will work quite like your understanding of it. In order for it to ramify it is going to get taller [Which is why it was suggested to chop much farther.]

It would look much more powerful as a smaller tree IMO anyway [Not as stretched out and sparse]

An ultra quick virt- The canopy could be bigger [And sitting a bit lower] but I was rushing. Also it is disappointingly symmetrical

[url=https://imageshack.us][img]https://img222.imageshack.us/img222/7429/boxwood015dn4.jpg[/img][/url]

I want to hear both of your opinions on whether or not I rootpruned too much.

I think your fine.
I have a question about the pot size, You had said that new one was nearly the same size, Is that the case?

It looks to be in a far smaller pot but it could be the angle of the pic. [This will slow down it's training if so.]

also, how long do you think the wire should stay on? I know it depends, and can range, but knowing ynot that you have experience with boxwoods, what seems to be the norm?

You already said the answer, Still too many other variables, IE: Branch size, Branch age, Degree of bend, Species, etc.. I would wait a minimum of 2 months before even checking it unless you notice the wire starting to bite [And if it is not biting by then I would let it ride- Actually I doubt this will bite].

ynot

[JoeLewko]

I think you're right about it being a smaller tree, and if I have a chance tomorrow, I'll do some work on it. I just feel I'm cutting too much and stressing the tree, but you're right, your virt looks better than if I left it at its current height. Plus, with this growing season still ahead, I cna probably thicken up the canopy really well before the winter.

About the pot, yeah it is the angle, it's a bit shallower than the pot the boxwood came in, but it's the same width.

There's a virt I did, that I want to discuss, but I'll post it later, photobucket isn't uploading for some reason right now.

[ynot]

I think you're right about it being a smaller tree, and if I have a chance tomorrow, I'll do some work on it. I just feel I'm cutting too much and stressing the tree,

That's a common feeling when starting out Joe. It is you that it is stressing out though not the tree.

but you're right, your virt looks better than if I left it at its current height. Plus, with this growing season still ahead, I cna probably thicken up the canopy really well before the winter.

We will see how you do . You will be on the path though.

About the pot, yeah it is the angle, it's a bit shallower than the pot the boxwood came in, but it's the same width.

Ok, Thanks.

There's a virt I did, that I want to discuss, but I'll post it later, photobucket isn't uploading for some reason right now.

Try imageshack I use them for this site all the time w/ no problems.

ynot

[JoeLewko]

imageshack is not working for me either right now I'm trying a variety of websites, I really want to get this pic uploaded tonight...

EDIT

Ok so it finally worked, and if you look closely at the red circled area, you'll see I accidentally snapped a branch, but left the wire intact, because I still want the branch. What if I cut the other branches tot hat one's height, and the new height of the tree would be the blue line. Or should I chop even lower?

[img]https://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m204/joelewko/boxwood007-1.jpg[/img]

[ynot]

Joe,

I would go at least that far, If it were me, I would take the branches [That I want to keep & I wouldn't keep them all] and chop them just above their third or fourth leaf.

That's counting from the trunk btw.

ynot

[ynot]

As tom said guess, the tree is rootbound, so I will have to do soem root pruning.

I don't think Tom said quite that actually.

Just a note: This is not root bound to any substantial degree at all. Look at all the soil left to be colonized by the roots.

[img]https://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m204/joelewko/boxwood002.jpg[/img]

However, This is.

[img]https://img329.imageshack.us/img329/6239/rootboundtc4.jpg[/img]

Actually in comparing the size of the roots in the first picture w/ the [pre-pruned ] root mass shown after, It looks as though you lost quite a bit of roots while removing the soil. [I mentioned this to you before to during that 'non-maple' repot.]
Not a huge deal in this case but it is something that you should generally try to avoid while repotting as some species will not put up with that at all. Or IE in an emergency situation you may not have many feeder roots hanging on so you have to try to keep all of them that you can.

you'll notice that I left two of the branches higher than the rest, reason being well, when chopping a branch, you should leave a few leaves on the branch,

That applies to this species Joe, Not all species by any means.

but these well, they don't have any except for the ones at the top. (as far as I can tell, if someone notices otherwise, please point it out Smile ). So I left those two taller, and as soon as they bud a little lower down, I'll chop off the tops. alos, I removed a bunch of wire, because with the shorter branches, I dk there just didn 't seem to be a need. Thoughts?

Sure,

I am going to ask you to think about the process here for a bit. .

Ok, Lets see how you feel about where you are, Try to be specific:

Do you feel what you left on the tree will get you to the virts previously posted? [If those are the goal your aiming for]

Meaning:

Does what you have left lay the foundation for what you want?

If not, Why is that so and what do you change to accomplish that?

Your next step will be?

I have a few thoughts on this but I would like to hear what you think about this first.

I would also get a bit of research in on pruning boxwoods as that info will come in handy for you in the months to come.

Just some things to consider to make the most of your recent flurry of activity

ynot

[JoeLewko]

When I was starting to remove the soil, I wasn't losing too many roots, but when I got into the 'bulk' of the, I'll admit I got a little careless figuring I was going to rootprune anyway. It was difficult, the soild was very damp, it had just puored all day the day before. (I'll try to avoid that in the future, I learn something everytime ). overall, I think it's an improvement from the non-maple.

I think that the way I have it is a good foundation, I really don't think I can go chopping too much right now, there aren't that many leaves left on it, maybe a few months (or weeks) form now when I get some good buds going, I'll lower it, but I think the size I have is good, the height of the tree not exceeding what it is now. I'm not sure if this is the right approach to it, but I did a quick virt, and this would essentially be the goal I have in mind
[img]https://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m204/joelewko/boxwood019virt.jpg[/img]

so as of now, yes this is a good foundation (to make things short )

what are your thoughts, I'm curious to know what you're thinking.

I have read some info on boxwoods, and it seems that when you cut a leaf, a new branch comes out, with more leaves. I have to run for now, sorry if I didn't address anything I'll get to it later on
Joe

[constantstaticx3]

I think that the way I have it is a good foundation, I really don't think I can go chopping too much right now, there aren't that many leaves left on it, maybe a few months (or weeks) form now when I get some good buds going, I'll lower it, but I think the size I have is good, the height of the tree not exceeding what it is now.

Why would you let the tree put its energy into branches and growth that you will not ultimately be keeping? If you are eventualy going to chop it back as far as your virt, why not do that now and spend more time growing in useable branches? Even though there aren't that many leaves left it doesn't mean its going to die and if you don't cut it back now then you may not get the branching that you want. I think there should be plenty of leaves left if you do chop it back.

Try to remember you only bought this for $6 bucks and I can promise you're not going to kill it, these are very tough trees. This is also one of your first trees and I want to get you off to a good start, you'll be much more brave and confident in the future if you take what you feel is a risk right now.

Get back when you can and answer these questions and tell me how you feel about it now. Always remember this is something to do for fun, were only trying to help you have more fun and save you some frustration later on. .

Tom

[JoeLewko]

Thanks for the comments Tom and ynot, you guys have been really helpful. I like it as it stands now, and seeing the virt I did, I think it can turn out to be a very nice bonsai. As for future plans, next year I will probably repot into a shallower pot (hopefully the iced tea bottle helped in getting more lateral roots), and I'll do soem more pruning then, assuming the tree makes it, but I think it'll be ok. As for this year, I'll try to get the foliage to grow as much as I can (I'll put it on a fertilizing schedule in about two months, I think that's long enough to wait), and I'll start developing the canopy as well as hopefully removing that wire by the end of the season, and havign all of the branches where I want them (by chopping the two I left taller for now). Any thoughts on how to actually get the desired shape? I mean I can grwosome thick foliage, but I'll probably have to wire some branches outward a little more, I might actually do that now, or I'll wait for new ones to come in and wire those into place.

Joe

And yes, this is proving to be a lot of fun for me, the initial pruning was an enjoyable few hours.

[ynot]

When I was starting to remove the soil, I wasn't losing too many roots, but when I got into the 'bulk' of the, I'll admit I got a little careless figuring I was going to rootprune anyway. It was difficult, the soild was very damp, it had just puored all day the day before. (I'll try to avoid that in the future, I learn something everytime ). overall, I think it's an improvement from the non-maple.

An improvement sure, A ways to go certainly

A hose can be an effective way to gently spray soil away also.

I think that the way I have it is a good foundation,

OK, But you are skipping parts of the process wrt how you are thinking about this as Toms quote addresses a bit later in this post.

I really don't think I can go chopping too much right now, there aren't that many leaves left on it, maybe a few months (or weeks) form now when I get some good buds going, I'll lower it, but I think the size I have is good, the height of the tree not exceeding what it is now. I'm not sure if this is the right approach to it, but I did a quick virt, and this would essentially be the goal I have in mind.

so as of now, yes this is a good foundation (to make things short )

what are your thoughts, I'm curious to know what you're thinking.
I have to run for now, sorry if I didn't address anything I'll get to it later on
Joe

?

Sorry, I asked first. Do you wish to learn to fish, Or be handed a fish [Actually, I have changed my mind on this, Slightly:] Ok, The two 'branches' you left taller, Either get rid of them completely or wire it into a broom. [You seem to be sort of broom inclined wrt this tree- Judging from your virt- Correct.?]
When was the last time you saw a tree where the lowest branch exiting the trunk was amongst the highest on the tree?

Why would you let the tree put its energy into branches and growth that you will not ultimately be keeping? If you are eventualy going to chop it back as far as your virt, why not do that now and spend more time growing in useable branches? Even though there aren't that many leaves left it doesn't mean its going to die and if you don't cut it back now then you may not get the branching that you want. I think there should be plenty of leaves left if you do chop it back.

Exactly,

Tom, Addresses a point that you have completely left out of the process Joe:
'Branches', Yes branches. Take all of your talk of a canopy and put it aside as you need some branches first.

[BTW Tom, Don't make promises you can't keep ]

I like it as it stands now, and seeing the virt I did, I think it can turn out to be a very nice bonsai.

The virt has nothing to with it, [Yet, though we are trying to get you there, Besides you also thought it was on the path to being the virt before you rechopped it...] You currently have shoots on a trunk, and too many of them at that. Some additional growth is required there [Yes, it will be taller for a while.]

Your first virt had 5 thick main branches exiting the trunk, Now apparently you find the 7[? is it] skinny shoots exiting the trunk to be an excellent transition into a canopy? Do you see what I am saying?

Your focus so far has glossed right over this point so far.

I have read some info on boxwoods, and it seems that when you cut a leaf, a new branch comes out, with more leaves.

Sort of, But some more research would easily clear this up for you

ynot

[constantstaticx3]

[BTW Tom, Don't Make promises you can't keep Wink ]

ynot, I know I really cant keep this promise but what I meant was the tree is probobly not going to die from cutting it back that low and if for some reason it does it is worth the risk. I know it can die from other reasons but I'm really trying hard to get him to cut it back more and save some frustration. I can really see Joe's potential here and I really want to get him off to a good start, not saying he hasn't already, but I want him to understand the procces and time this takes. I have good intentions


Tom

[ynot]

[BTW Tom, Don't Make promises you can't keep Wink ]

ynot, I know I really cant keep this promise but what I meant was the tree is not going to die from cutting it back that low. I know it can die from other reasons but I'm really trying hard to get him to cut it back more and save some frustration. I can really see Joe's potential here and I really want to get him off to a good start, not saying he hasn't already, but I want him to understand the procces and time this takes.
Tom

I know, [Just giving you a bit of :P ] And I completely agree with the second half, I am trying hard also...

ynot