User avatar
djlen
Green Thumb
Posts: 660
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:37 am
Location: Just East of Zone 7a

New Tridents

I recently discovered a "Mother" Trident Maple right across the street and this year, I think because of the mild Winter it had a bumper crop of seeds.
I harvested a bunch, stuck them in to the dirt and here's the result.
[url=https://s26.photobucket.com/albums/c145/djlen/?action=view&current=IMG_3706b.jpg][img]https://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c145/djlen/th_IMG_3706b.jpg[/img][/url]

[url=https://s26.photobucket.com/albums/c145/djlen/?action=view&current=IMG_3703b.jpg][img]https://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c145/djlen/th_IMG_3703b.jpg[/img][/url]

[url=https://s26.photobucket.com/albums/c145/djlen/?action=view&current=IMG_3704b.jpg][img]https://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c145/djlen/th_IMG_3704b.jpg[/img][/url]

I'm guessing I've got about 90% germination rate on these cuties and some are still germinating. With Maple, freshness is the key. They came off the tree and into the soil.
Regards,
Len

"As the twig is bent, so the tree inclines"
- Virgil
"I rarely agree with most of what I say........." -
- Len
_________
How To Post A Picture

User avatar
Intriguedbybonsai
Senior Member
Posts: 262
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:03 am
Location: Escondido, CA (USDA Zone 9-10)

Nice tridents! I wish a more wide variety of deciduous trees grew wild in my area. Mainly alot of eucalyptus, and palm trees here.
I am Quintin, the one who became inspired, informed, and intrigued by bonsai. But I also like gardening too. :D

User avatar
rainbowgardener
Super Green Thumb
Posts: 25303
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:04 pm
Location: TN/GA 7b

Yeah, the deciduous trees like maple, need cold dormancy in winter, so don't grow well in zone 9-10.

WOW! That is indeed a BUNCH of maple seedlings. Assuming that you really don't want that many trees, you might be able to make a little $$ growing them out 2-3 years and selling them as pre-bonsai.
Twitter account I manage for local Sierra Club: https://twitter.com/CherokeeGroupSC Facebook page I manage for them: https://www.facebook.com/groups/65310596576/ Come and find me and lots of great information, inspiration

User avatar
manofthetrees
Senior Member
Posts: 236
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:14 pm
Location: west seneca ny

not to be a downer but those are not trident maples, silver or sugar maybe ,but tridents have leaves with 3 distintive lobes those look to have 5. theyre like weeds around here ill pull 20 a day out of my garden. for weeks ...i do find some that missed my eye or snuck under the hedges that grow and i train them in the ground were they are

User avatar
djlen
Green Thumb
Posts: 660
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:37 am
Location: Just East of Zone 7a

manofthetrees wrote:not to be a downer but those are not trident maples, silver or sugar maybe ,but tridents have leaves with 3 distintive lobes those look to have 5. theyre like weeds around here ill pull 20 a day out of my garden. for weeks ...i do find some that missed my eye or snuck under the hedges that grow and i train them in the ground were they are
Not at this stage of growth they don't. I will post when they have 2 or three more leaf sets and you will see the 3 lobes "appear".
As I said I harvested them personally off the mother tree and it's a Trident.
After 40 years doing this I know a Trident when I see one. :) :)
Regards,
Len

"As the twig is bent, so the tree inclines"
- Virgil
"I rarely agree with most of what I say........." -
- Len
_________
How To Post A Picture

User avatar
manofthetrees
Senior Member
Posts: 236
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:14 pm
Location: west seneca ny

well thats news to me :oops: .pretty cool were exactly are you lacated iv never seen a full size trident just as bonsai

User avatar
djlen
Green Thumb
Posts: 660
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:37 am
Location: Just East of Zone 7a

I live in South Jersey, outside of Philly and there are many full sized Tridents in our area. I would think that they could occur naturally in NY state. Surprised that you have never seen a full sized one. I will have to check on that. Your Winters are quite cold and I'm not sure how hardy they are that far north.
BTW, I have Sugars, Silvers, Swamp and Norways growing on my property. Some of which will grow well up into Vermont and New Hampshire. Just not sure about the Tridents.

Rainbowgardener, I will probably give many of them away in the Spring after they've had a year to grow and then a Winter to harden off. I don't sell these things. It's my hobby, you know?
A couple of years ago and guy living in Oregon over-heard me talking on a forum(might have been this one) about wanting some Zelkova. He got with me and told me he had access to some and would I like some seedlings. I said sure and he sent me close to 200 little tiny seedlings wrapped up in one paper towel. That's how tiny they were! I carefully pulled them apart and planted them and I've had close to 100% success in growing them out.
I think that when you put out good Karma you get the same in return. Norm and I have traded some plants back and forth. I think I even sent him some Trident seeds and some U parvifolia seeds.
So anyway, for that reason I would never sell plants. We'll see how these guys do and probably offer them around either in the early Fall or next Spring.
Regards,
Len

"As the twig is bent, so the tree inclines"
- Virgil
"I rarely agree with most of what I say........." -
- Len
_________
How To Post A Picture

User avatar
manofthetrees
Senior Member
Posts: 236
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:14 pm
Location: west seneca ny

I would think that they could occur naturally in NY state
i think its too cold ive lost whips when i first stated bonsai because of the wind so i gave up on them . we are zone 5 moving toward 6 lately i guess they just can't get a foothold. have to keep an eye out next time i travel south . we do have something close in the srtiped maple the leaves are three lobed but huge.

User avatar
djlen
Green Thumb
Posts: 660
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:37 am
Location: Just East of Zone 7a

Ok, so you're up there between the Finger Lakes. Yes, it really gets cold up there, but you should be able to have success with Tridents if you give them protection during the Winter. Even down here I put a lot of my trees in the garage and unheated shed each Winter. When they drop leaves I keep a close watch on the weather parameters and start to move the more delicate plants into the protected areas.
Regards,
Len

"As the twig is bent, so the tree inclines"
- Virgil
"I rarely agree with most of what I say........." -
- Len
_________
How To Post A Picture

kdodds
Greener Thumb
Posts: 1436
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 12:07 am
Location: Airmont, NY Zone 6/7

Tridents, Amurs, Palmatums, all will do just fine to zone 5/6 NY/NJ, they just might need (Tridents and some Palmatum cultivars) a little mulch is all in 5. Mine are out mostly unprotected. Can't tell on all of the seedlings, but there are a few that are, quite clearly, Tridents and look nothing like sugars or silvers or norways to me, but possibly could be mistaken for amurs or reds (no closeups is hard). The "weed" maples in NY aren't sugars, BTW, they're Norways. Try and tap one, you'll see. ;)

linlaoboo
Green Thumb
Posts: 469
Joined: Sat May 22, 2010 5:15 pm
Location: NJ

would love to get my hands on some young tridents. I was at Allshapes a couple weekends ago in Ringoes, NJ and he had some youngens priced at $25 and said they won't be ready for another week or 2 since he just repotted them.

If there are any wild ones down by you, it'd be even nicer to air layer some thick ones :D
ficus, maple, elm, juniper, pine

kdodds
Greener Thumb
Posts: 1436
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 12:07 am
Location: Airmont, NY Zone 6/7

What size pots? $25 is a little steep for Trident starter material around ½" or less. Meehan's and/or Wee Tree both have Tridents in 4" and 6" pots at ~½" for about $20 (or less).

TomM
Greener Thumb
Posts: 749
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 12:28 pm
Location: Cedarville (SE of Utica) NY, USA

I'm in the hills above the Mohawk Valley south of Utica, NY. Trident maples (and Japanese) do not survive our winters in the ground. If potted they must be brought into a shed or garage and frequently moved in and out to protect from early and late frosts. It gets frustrating at times but we get used to it. Love these trees.

Early this spring I put some of Bill Valavanis' trident whips into the ground (anyway) knowing that I will have to pull them back out again this fall and pot them up. A club member did this prior to using his for a forest group and he got great results. He did this - placing his group in his garden for the growing seasons, then back into a training pot for the off-season in a sheltered shed - over 3 years. Now his forest is planted on a large slab and is easily removable for seasonal care. It is awesome!

kdodds
Greener Thumb
Posts: 1436
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 12:07 am
Location: Airmont, NY Zone 6/7

What zone is that? Sounds like a zone 4/5 cusp kind of thing.

User avatar
djlen
Green Thumb
Posts: 660
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:37 am
Location: Just East of Zone 7a

I would say that in that environment it would be better to grow them out in a large tub/pot that can be transported into a protected area in the Spring and Fall when the temps. get tricky. Here, in Jersey the weather is much more forgiving and it's not as critical as upstate NY.
I know that I could have left them out this past Winter with little protection(not seedlings but the ones I've been working for a few years) because we had such a mild Winter. I just feel that if you have the room in a garage or shed it's much safer overall to just put them in there for the Jan.-mid March time frame.
I will take more pics. after 2 or three more leaf sets pop just to satisfy the skeptics in the crowd. :) :)
linlaoboo, do you live north or south of Ringoes?
Regards,
Len

"As the twig is bent, so the tree inclines"
- Virgil
"I rarely agree with most of what I say........." -
- Len
_________
How To Post A Picture

TomM
Greener Thumb
Posts: 749
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 12:28 pm
Location: Cedarville (SE of Utica) NY, USA

kdodds;

Yep - zone 4/5. It can be rough. But we live with it and we love our bonsai anyway. Do what you gotta do.

Right now it is 83. Last week, just 2 days before our club show, we had a hard frost here - but not down in the valley.

kdodds
Greener Thumb
Posts: 1436
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 12:07 am
Location: Airmont, NY Zone 6/7

On the brighter side, you've got prime conifer conditions. :)

TomM
Greener Thumb
Posts: 749
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 12:28 pm
Location: Cedarville (SE of Utica) NY, USA

Oh yeah! And especially my favorite conifer - the local deciduous one - LARCH!
That's the tree that got me interested in bonsai almost 10 years ago.

User avatar
manofthetrees
Senior Member
Posts: 236
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:14 pm
Location: west seneca ny

Ok, so you're up there between the Finger Lakes. Yes, it really gets cold up there, but you should be able to have success with Tridents if you give them protection during the Winter
im near buffalo close to lake erie the wind can whip pretty good here. i tried some in my first year of bonsai and being a noob i killed them like many others along the way. i just haven't got along to get more seeing i have such a free surplus of other maple species

User avatar
djlen
Green Thumb
Posts: 660
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:37 am
Location: Just East of Zone 7a

TomM wrote:Oh yeah! And especially my favorite conifer - the local deciduous one - LARCH!
That's the tree that got me interested in bonsai almost 10 years ago.
Larch!!!!! Now there's a tree that I truly love for Bonsai and are about as difficult to get down here as Tridents are to get up there. Maybe you can turn me on to a mail order place locally to you where I can get some young ones.

"im near buffalo close to lake erie the wind can whip pretty good here. i tried some in my first year of bonsai and being a noob i killed them like many others along the way. i just haven't got along to get more seeing i have such a free surplus of other maple species"

Can't tell you how many trees I've killed over the years (sad to say). If I've learned anything in this hobby, it's that you grow what will grow for you and leave the ones that are difficult to those that find them easy.
Regards,
Len

"As the twig is bent, so the tree inclines"
- Virgil
"I rarely agree with most of what I say........." -
- Len
_________
How To Post A Picture

kdodds
Greener Thumb
Posts: 1436
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 12:07 am
Location: Airmont, NY Zone 6/7

Are you looking for American or Japanese Larch?

TomM
Greener Thumb
Posts: 749
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 12:28 pm
Location: Cedarville (SE of Utica) NY, USA

Two sources of collected larch not too far from you are Bill Valavanis at International Bonsai Arboretum in West Henrietta and Hollow Creek Bonsai in Avon. Check both sites. I don't use mail order myself - only buy at their nurseries or through vendors.

User avatar
djlen
Green Thumb
Posts: 660
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:37 am
Location: Just East of Zone 7a

TomM wrote:Two sources of collected larch not too far from you are Bill Valavanis at International Bonsai Arboretum in West Henrietta and Hollow Creek Bonsai in Avon. Check both sites. I don't use mail order myself - only buy at their nurseries or through vendors.
I have mature trees. I'm always looking for 2 - 3 year old seedlings to make into forest plantings. The seedlings are fun to work with.
Regards,
Len

"As the twig is bent, so the tree inclines"
- Virgil
"I rarely agree with most of what I say........." -
- Len
_________
How To Post A Picture

kdodds
Greener Thumb
Posts: 1436
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 12:07 am
Location: Airmont, NY Zone 6/7

Can't speak to American Larch seedlings, but Meehan's Miniatures has Japanese in various sizes, as does, I believe, Wee Tree Farms.

TomM
Greener Thumb
Posts: 749
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 12:28 pm
Location: Cedarville (SE of Utica) NY, USA

I get larch seedlings (whips) from our local county Soil & Water Conservation Service. They grow out very well in the garden here. The current 'crop' is to be used for a future forest group workshop in our club. Check with your county service or Cooperative Extension. I believe these programs are throughout NYS. Very cool and inexpensive way to start larches and grow them out quickly. 8)

User avatar
djlen
Green Thumb
Posts: 660
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:37 am
Location: Just East of Zone 7a

TomM wrote:I get larch seedlings (whips) from our local county Soil & Water Conservation Service. They grow out very well in the garden here. The current 'crop' is to be used for a future forest group workshop in our club. Check with your county service or Cooperative Extension. I believe these programs are throughout NYS. Very cool and inexpensive way to start larches and grow them out quickly. 8)

And THAT is what I'm looking for!!!!! Do you have to be a NYS resident to avail yourself of that service? Is there a web site I can visit to find out some info. on that?
Regards,
Len

"As the twig is bent, so the tree inclines"
- Virgil
"I rarely agree with most of what I say........." -
- Len
_________
How To Post A Picture

TomM
Greener Thumb
Posts: 749
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 12:28 pm
Location: Cedarville (SE of Utica) NY, USA

I think you need to be on the tax roles of your particular county.

[url=https://herkimercounty.org/content/CommunityCategories/Home/:item=5&field=groups;/content/CommunityGroups/View/39:field=documents;/content/Documents/File/2197.pdf]Here's where I got mine -[/url]

As you see there were no larches offered this year. It changes from time to time, and the orders need to be placed very early in the year.

Still you should check with your county agency.

User avatar
djlen
Green Thumb
Posts: 660
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:37 am
Location: Just East of Zone 7a

Yeah, the county down here that I used to live in had offerings yearly similar to what your link shows. I don't know whether this county does. I'll have to check for next year.
Thanks.
Regards,
Len

"As the twig is bent, so the tree inclines"
- Virgil
"I rarely agree with most of what I say........." -
- Len
_________
How To Post A Picture

User avatar
manofthetrees
Senior Member
Posts: 236
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:14 pm
Location: west seneca ny

:shock: thats freakin' awsome never though of the DOC for whips....is bonsai considered species conservation tho, i wouldnt want them showing up at my house with hammers and bats LOL

kdodds
Greener Thumb
Posts: 1436
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 12:07 am
Location: Airmont, NY Zone 6/7

This is state-wide:

https://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/7127.html

The trees are not "loaners". You're encouraged to plant them for yourself, which is kind of funny since many of them are non-natives.

User avatar
djlen
Green Thumb
Posts: 660
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:37 am
Location: Just East of Zone 7a

kdodds wrote:This is state-wide:

https://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/7127.html

The trees are not "loaners". You're encouraged to plant them for yourself, which is kind of funny since many of them are non-natives.
Very interesting. I bookmarked the site and will contact them next year to find out if they sell to out of state people.
Did you notice that they have Larch. There are quite a few others that lend themselves to Bonsai culture. Douglas and Balsam Fir, Norways, and a few others.
Regards,
Len

"As the twig is bent, so the tree inclines"
- Virgil
"I rarely agree with most of what I say........." -
- Len
_________
How To Post A Picture

kdodds
Greener Thumb
Posts: 1436
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 12:07 am
Location: Airmont, NY Zone 6/7

Yep, but Japanese Larch... and yeah, they've quite a few trees and shrubs that are bonsai suitable. BUT, are they bonsai ready? Most likely no, not now, not for quite a few years to come. So, you'll have quite a few dozen trees that you'll need to grow out. Hope you have the space. Reselling, BTW, would be highly unethical considering their intended purpose. IF I were to buy some, I might keep one or two for bonsai, but would relocate the rest, for sure.

User avatar
djlen
Green Thumb
Posts: 660
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:37 am
Location: Just East of Zone 7a

None of the trees offered there are "Bonsai Ready". They are seedlings and my interest in them would be for making forest plantings at this stage. I have plenty of full sized single, double etc. trees and am looking more for seedlings that I can develop into forests and groves.
Those seedlings are perfect material for that.
I would plant extras in my back yard which is of a size that would accommodate them. Maybe give some to neighbors. :)
I just gave the Tridents their first feeding. They are looking good!
Regards,
Len

"As the twig is bent, so the tree inclines"
- Virgil
"I rarely agree with most of what I say........." -
- Len
_________
How To Post A Picture

Return to “BONSAI FORUM”