Cork Oak and Sloe starter tree help required..

[mattgeorge]

Hi there. This is my first ever thread (bar an identical one on a different forum), so please forgive any mistakes!

I have just bought a blackthorn and a couple of cork oak starter trees for future bonsai projects and am wondering what the best way to go about starting them is. These are the first trees I've had from starters and want to make sure I don't go about it in an inefficient manner. They are all 12-24" tall with trunks base diameters of 1/4 - 1/2" (picture is included below). The pots they came in are 3.5" x 3.5" x 3".

I'm basically wondering whether I should repot them into larger pots this year/asap and then leave them for a year to improve growth (the oaks have barely any branch structure); leave them in those pots and pop them somewhere suitable and leave them for a year; or whether there would be a better option? I assume I should leave all pruning/shaping for at least a year?

Any help would be very much appreciated!

Best Regards

Matt

[img]https://i1064.photobucket.com/albums/u372/MATTHEWHARRYGEORGE/15052012949.jpg[/img]

[smstrick20]

Hi, glad to see I'm not the only crazy one starting a bunch of seedlings for the fun of it. I figure its the best way for me to get the things I want that I cant get in larger or field grown stock. Anyway there are a few options you can do...
1-plant them in the ground and leave them until they are at the trunk size you want probably 3-5 years atleast unless you are going from something smaller

2- You can put them in a slightly shorter but fat pot like a 6" azalea pot for a few years to start developing and working on your nabari and radial root growth, then after a few years plant them in either a much larger pot or the ground to continue and speed up trunk thickness

This article is by far one of my favorites on the subject. Hope that helps.

https://www.evergreengardenworks.com/trunks.htm

[kdodds]

Inspect the root ball. If it has filled the pot, or mostly so, pot up this year. I wouldn't go to quarts, I'd go to full gallon (6" here in the States) nursery pots. Just chop the leaders if they get too high, leave everything else. Deciduous trees will mostly back bud readily, so don't worry about there being no low growth, plenty of time (2-5 years or more in pots) for that.

[mattgeorge]

Cheers for the advice guys! My feelings exactly smstrick20. There's much more scope for your ideas. Plus I'm pretty low on experience (as you can probably tell) so it'll also give me plenty of time to practice while they grow!

I think I shall stick a couple in the ground where I can find suitable space and the rest into pots and work on root structure. Is there a soil mix you'd recommend for either (aggregate/organic ratio or specifics)? There's plenty of info about regarding soils when they're bonsai but I was unsure about at this stage?

Great article thanks, I shall definitely be trying out a few of those methods!

Many thanks.

[Gnome]

Matt,

Is there a soil mix you'd recommend for either (aggregate/organic ratio or specifics)? There's plenty of info about regarding soils when they're bonsai but I was unsure about at this stage?

If you have read through this forum you probably have read others being told that their young plant does not really have the character of what is generally thought of as bonsai. In this case, soil composition, it really does not matter that your plants are still in development. I have many pots/species in various stages of development but one thing they all have in common is a free draining mix. I have abandoned conventional potting soil even for houseplants.

Norm

[mattgeorge]

Morning Norm,

Thanks for your help, I shall be popping them all into a free draining mixture this weekend. I am working my way through the forum (all 63 pages worth) but it's certainly not a quick process I'm afraid, so apologies if my questions have already been answered previously. When you say they don't really have the character of what is generally thought of a bonsai, do you mean at this stage/age (as that I am aware of), or were you meaning something else?

Thanks again

Matt

[kdodds]

I don't know about Norm, but I would say that, as of know, they are not bonsai material. BUT, most of what will remain when they're ready to be workd (I.e. the lower trunk). Is wrapped in plastic and not visible to us. Most of what is there now will be removed at some point, IOW. This is just another reason to just let them grow. There will always be time to prune later. The only things you really want to remove when growing out are lower bar, wheel, and crossing branches. The first two will contribute to reverse taper and the last will be useless anyway and hamper your vision of the tree as it grows. Other than that, you just want to keep them to a manageable height, really.

[mattgeorge]

Good point! Thanks again. I know it is going to be a looooong time till I can even consider classing any of those as bonsai (if they even make it that far!)

One last question.. should I still worry about lower bar and wheel branches IF I am planning on cutting the trunk lower than the position they are at, as I assume any reverse taper contributions would be removed? Thinking about it now though, I'm guessing it is best to keep on top of them anyway so that the tree can make more effective use of the energy in the lower trunk section that is being kept?

Cheers

Matt

[Gnome]

Matt,

When you say they don't really have the character of what is generally thought of a bonsai, do you mean at this stage/age (as that I am aware of), or were you meaning something else?

The former was my intention, meaning that they are starter material. My real point though was that a decent soil mix is important even from the early stages of development.

Norm

[kdodds]

Bars and wheels that are well above your planned cut, yeah, no harm no foul. But, keep in mind the bulge will be gradual and will extend both up and down the trunk. Pruning bars and wheels, yes, also encourages growth elsewhere.

Just as and aside, pines and other conifers that are difficult or impossible to get backbudding on, you'll want to keep low options open, even if they're wheels or bars. A lot can be fixed after you decide with pruning and carving.

[mattgeorge]

Thanks for all your help. They are now all repotted (two in gallon pots and two in the ground). The bottom part of one of my oak trunks is slightly covered in moss.. should I remove this or is it not an issue?

Images in case anyone is interested and opinions always welcome

[img]https://i1064.photobucket.com/albums/u372/MATTHEWHARRYGEORGE/24052012959.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i1064.photobucket.com/albums/u372/MATTHEWHARRYGEORGE/24052012955.jpg[/img]

Many thanks as always

[mattgeorge]

Thanks for all your help. They are now all repotted (two in gallon pots and two in the ground). The bottom part of one of my oak trunks is slightly covered in moss.. should I remove this or is it not an issue?

Images in case anyone is interested and opinions and advice always welcome

[img]https://i1064.photobucket.com/albums/u372/MATTHEWHARRYGEORGE/24052012959.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i1064.photobucket.com/albums/u372/MATTHEWHARRYGEORGE/24052012955.jpg[/img]

Many thanks as always

[kdodds]

The moss will start to cling quite a bit and become difficult to remove the longer it's left. For bonsai, you generally want a clean, non-mossy trunk. So, yes, I'd remove it. Use a toothbrush, soft bristles, and go gently but firmly.