gbhunter77
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jab maple

I have a nice J. Maple but it does not have solid branches. The interloads are pretty large for my taste can those be reduced by trimming or cutting back? Any advice would be great.

Thanks

tomc
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Cutting back the surface of Japan maple leaves after first growth will reduce their size and ultimately internode length.

It also slows tree growth way, way down.

Ideally you want to evoke the trunk size and nebari first, and then go back to reducing internode length by leaf cutting after.

Its that or plan on living to be 350 yeas old... ;)

kdodds
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Is the trunk as thick as you want it to be?

If no, do nothing, stop reading.

Is the rest of the tree tapered and to within two thirds of your planned height?

In no, trunk chop, stop reading.

Is the nebari raised and to your liking?

If no, sinkit back below the soil, stop reading.

Do you have primary branch placement?

If no, wait for them or cut back to just above where you want the lowest branch to induce backbudding, stop reading.

Do you have secondary branch placement?

If no, do as above, stop reading.

Okay, you've got your trunk, primary, and secondary branches, now your ready to start developing those pads. By now, you have the patience and knowledge acquired through years of training seedlings and saplings into pre-bonsai. You don't need to ask my advice, have at it. :)

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Gnome
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gbhunter77,
Ideally you want to evoke the trunk size and nebari first, and then go back to reducing internode length by leaf cutting after.
Agreed, with one clarification, leaf cutting will not reduce the length of existing internodes. Defoliation helps in that it increases ramification, more shoots (ramification) means that the plants energy is distributed over more sites and thereby lessens the growth of any one shoot. This only effects new shoots though, so any old wood that is too coarse (long internodes) must be pruned away.

Maples will back-bud at the sites of previous nodes which means that you can spend the early years developing the trunk and nebari. Later you can chop back to induce new growth which must then be managed to maintain shorter internodes. New shoots on A.P. elongate quickly in the spring and then it is too late for that shoot. Pinching early in the season keeps internodes short.

If your trunk and nebari are already established but the branches are too coarse the same applies, cut them back to induce new shoots closer to the trunk.

After seven years of development I am just getting to the point that any refinement makes sense. Actually, I could easily spend another five growing the trunk out but my patience is wearing thin.



Norm
Last edited by Gnome on Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Gnome
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gbhunter77,

This is what I have accomplished since the spring of 2005 with some green Japanese Maples.

[img]https://img99.imageshack.us/img99/4198/96994920.jpg[/img]

This tree has never been in the ground while my notes indicate that it has been potted up in 2006, 2008, 2009 and this year, 2012. It is currently just less than one inch in diameter near the soil line.

This tree is one of four remaining of ten and this is the best of the lot. I always like to start with more plants to hedge my bets, so to speak.

Norm

gbhunter77
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What is that tree planted in?

kdodds
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Looks like Pine Bark, Red Lava Rock, and Sand.

Norm, what size were the trunks when you started? This information, seeing as you've kept detailed records, can prove invaluable for newbies growing in pots instead of in ground.

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Gnome
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gbhunter77,
What is that tree planted in?
Looks like Pine Bark, Red Lava Rock, and Sand.
Close, Lava, Bark and Calcined Clay.

kdodds,
Norm, what size were the trunks when you started? This information, seeing as you've kept detailed records, can prove invaluable for newbies growing in pots instead of in ground.
They were one year old seedlings from E-Bay. They are simply green A. palmatum, no named cultivar.

I carelessly left them out one night when I should have brought them in and experienced some leaf burn.

Norm

kdodds
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So, that's eight years in the making, 7 years you've had them, +1 year seedling. This is an excellent thread to refer to when people ask, "What should I do with my [insert starter plant species]?" Clip and grow in pot and... :)

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Gnome
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kdodds,

Yes, eight years total. All too often new growers seem to have unrealistic expectations about growing from seed, cuttings or even young starter material.

Norm

kdodds
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I don't know if it's unrealistic or ignorant. Please bear in mind that I am speaking in the true meaning of the word ignorant, without knowledge. Ignorant does not mean stupid. Lack of knowledge and high exposure to 5yo, 10yo, whatever claim of age, mallsai, and a general lack of bonsai knowledge, encourage those assumptions, those unrealistic expectations. Most people think, for instance, that a bonsai tree starts as a small bonsai tree and grows up to be a larger bonsai tree. We (who know bonsai) know that this could not be further from the truth. Mass market products like "Bonsai Seed Kits" with little pots and tools and such don't help matters either.

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djlen
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Gnome wrote:gbhunter77,

This is what I have accomplished since the spring of 2005 with some green Japanese Maples.

[img]https://img99.imageshack.us/img99/4198/96994920.jpg[/img]

This tree has never been in the ground while my notes indicate that it has been potted up in 2006, 2008, 2009 and this year, 2012. It is currently just less than one inch in diameter near the soil line.

This tree is one of four remaining of ten and this is the best of the lot. I always like to start with more plants to hedge my bets, so to speak.

Norm
Shaping up very nicely Norm. I remember seeing it not too long after you started. You have the patience of a Saint with the little ones...lol.
Keep up the good work.

gbhunter77 - Would it be possible to see a picture of your tree. It's next to impossible to comment without knowing what we're dealing with.



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