Hi guys,
I just found this forum today and before I've even posted I have found the existing advice fantastic - so thanks already! Before I go on I'll just point out that I can't presently take photos as I have no camera, but will hopefuly borrow one soon.
I have just recieved a Chinese Elm in the post (not a great way to get your bonsai I know but that's another story. It was very well protected during transit though, which was only about a day). I hope someone could answer a few specific queries for me:
My fist question is this: Is it a Chinese Elm or a Japanese Elm? When I ordered it the description said Chinese, but the info that comes with it refers to it as Zelkova. I don't feel it's worth contacting the suppliers as they probably won't have any way of knowing for sure what they sent to me. I am guessing I'll just have to wait until I can study the fruit.
Secondly, the general advice seems to be to repot it during it's first spring, but it is now March 22nd so spring it upon us - should I wait untill next spring? I don't want to cause it additional stress after it's journey.
The condition of the tree seems pretty good, the soil was fairly dry (feels like it had been watered a day or two ago) so I took it out of the pot and submersed it in water for about 15 minutes. I know that this isn't how I should water it normaly, this was just to help it recover from it's journey.
Which leads me to my next point - the tree came out of the pot very easily as there seems to be a very slight gap between the soil and the pot - is this a problem or is it just because the tree is dry? I know your gonna ask me for pictures but I can't oblige!
Another question (I've lost count!), It came with some Chrysal bonsai plant food - should I feed it now or wait for it to settle? I think what is confusing me here is that I read on another forum (before my tree arrived) about someone else's problems - but his tree was nearly dead and he was advised to wait a while.
The last question! (For now). It has arrived with wires still on, and I'm not sure if they need to be taken off. They don't seem to have scarred the bark yet, however they are quite rusty and seem to be staining it - also I can clearly see marks from previous wires which have stained the bark - is there anything I can do about this?
Other than that I have watered it as I said (I've also read up on the watering process, so don't worry!), and it is currently residing on my kitchen window sill with is both light and well ventilated. I was hoping to put it outside for a while but it's a bit cold here (London) at the moment - I think I'll wait until next month, or maybe May until I take it outside.
Sorry for the essay and thanks for reading!
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woodymellor
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Gnome
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Woody,
Hello and welcome. Glad to hear that you have done some research on your own. There is much to learn about growing bonsai and an attitude like that will serve you much better than if you simply ask questions.
On the other hand Chinese Elms are sometimes labeled as Zelkovas in order to skirt import restrictions on Elms. Either way it is not a problem as they are both fine trees in their own right. When it leafs out I can post some pictures for a comparison. Is it in leaf now?
Norm
Hello and welcome. Glad to hear that you have done some research on your own. There is much to learn about growing bonsai and an attitude like that will serve you much better than if you simply ask questions.
Chinese Elm, (Ulmus parviflora) is a different species than Japanese Grey Bark Elm, (Zelkova serrata). There is often confusion between the distinction between these two species which is unfortunate and entirely unnecessary, as anyone with a little experience can readily discern between the two. Most Chinese Elms are sold as indoor plants, probably to appeal to a wider audience. Since you have not mentioned any foliage and the tree is marked as Zelkova, I would tend to suspect that it is indeed a Zelkova.My fist question is this: Is it a Chinese Elm or a Japanese Elm? When I ordered it the description said Chinese, but the info that comes with it refers to it as Zelkova. I don't feel it's worth contacting the suppliers as they probably won't have any way of knowing for sure what they sent to me. I am guessing I'll just have to wait until I can study the fruit.
On the other hand Chinese Elms are sometimes labeled as Zelkovas in order to skirt import restrictions on Elms. Either way it is not a problem as they are both fine trees in their own right. When it leafs out I can post some pictures for a comparison. Is it in leaf now?
If it is in fact still dormant then it is a fine time to re-pot, in fact just about the best for this species. You have not indicated definitively if that is the case. Another thing to consider, if you don't have a proper medium or the components to make one then the question of re-potting becomes moot.Secondly, the general advice seems to be to repot it during it's first spring, but it is now March 22nd so spring it upon us - should I wait untill next spring? I don't want to cause it additional stress after it's journey.
Don't worry about that at all, this one time shot is not a death sentence to your plant. The real question is if submersion is necessary to thoroughly wet the plant you have soil issues.The condition of the tree seems pretty good, the soil was fairly dry (feels like it had been watered a day or two ago) so I took it out of the pot and submersed it in water for about 15 minutes. I know that this isn't how I should water it normaly, this was just to help it recover from it's journey.
Sounds to me that you probably have a poor quality, peat based soil that is commonly seen with mass produced bonsai. Please describe the soil. Is it finely textured and primarily organic in nature or coarse and primarily inorganic? The latter is preferable although Zelkovas can tolerate more organics than say a Pine. Describe the roots, lift it out of the pot again. Are they a fairly solid mass? Can you discern any bad smells or obviously rotted roots?Which leads me to my next point - the tree came out of the pot very easily as there seems to be a very slight gap between the soil and the pot - is this a problem or is it just because the tree is dry? I know your gonna ask me for pictures but I can't oblige!
Again, this is dependent upon the current condition of the tree. If it is dormant then there is not really much point in feeding it yet.Another question (I've lost count!), It came with some Chrysal bonsai plant food - should I feed it now or wait for it to settle?
Rusty? Steel wire is not commonly used to wire bonsai. I think I would remove it. Carefully cut it off, do not attempt to unwind it as you will likely damage your tree. As far as the stains go, the passage of time will help. You can also try gently brushing with an old toothbrush and some water. There may be other options down the road but for now this is not a huge concern.The last question! (For now). It has arrived with wires still on, and I'm not sure if they need to be taken off. They don't seem to have scarred the bark yet, however they are quite rusty and seem to be staining it - also I can clearly see marks from previous wires which have stained the bark - is there anything I can do about this?
I know I sound like a broken record but I don't know if it is dormant or in leaf. No point in putting a dormant tree on a windowsill and if it is dormant. So perhaps I was in error when I assumed that it was dormant/leafless, please let us know.it is currently residing on my kitchen window sill with is both light and well ventilated. I was hoping to put it outside for a while but it's a bit cold here (London) at the moment - I think I'll wait until next month, or maybe May until I take it outside.
Norm
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woodymellor
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Gnome,
Thanks alot for your reply. I see I missed out the small matter of whether or not it is in leaf! It is indeed in leaf, although not too many but they do seem a nice rich dark green and very flexible. With regard to the look of the leaves they do look (to me at least) exactly the same as the photos of Chinese Elm I have seen elsewhere on the forum. At least it does seem, according to my own research, that there is actualy very little difference between Chinese/Japanese Elm when it comes to caring for them - as long as I can keep it alive long enough to bear fruit I should be able to find out then!
I guess I should leave it alone in that case, and not repot it - as long as it is not crucial at this point I'd rather leave it for now anyway. I also take it that feeding it and making sure it gets light are the right things to do presently!
With regard to the soil, I don't have much idea what I'm talking about here. It is very dark, almost black, with a few (very few) white bits - according to a bit of googling seems to be perlite - so some sort of general purpose potting mix, with a fair amount of moss on top. From what I can see of the roots it seems they are well spread throughout the soil, they can be seen from all sides and the bottom but don't seem too cramped. I cant actually see a root ball itself.
Thanks once again - I have got a book from the library today so let's see how I get on!
Woody.
Thanks alot for your reply. I see I missed out the small matter of whether or not it is in leaf! It is indeed in leaf, although not too many but they do seem a nice rich dark green and very flexible. With regard to the look of the leaves they do look (to me at least) exactly the same as the photos of Chinese Elm I have seen elsewhere on the forum. At least it does seem, according to my own research, that there is actualy very little difference between Chinese/Japanese Elm when it comes to caring for them - as long as I can keep it alive long enough to bear fruit I should be able to find out then!
I guess I should leave it alone in that case, and not repot it - as long as it is not crucial at this point I'd rather leave it for now anyway. I also take it that feeding it and making sure it gets light are the right things to do presently!
With regard to the soil, I don't have much idea what I'm talking about here. It is very dark, almost black, with a few (very few) white bits - according to a bit of googling seems to be perlite - so some sort of general purpose potting mix, with a fair amount of moss on top. From what I can see of the roots it seems they are well spread throughout the soil, they can be seen from all sides and the bottom but don't seem too cramped. I cant actually see a root ball itself.
Thanks once again - I have got a book from the library today so let's see how I get on!
Woody.
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woodymellor
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Just a quick note to say the book I got today shows a picture of a bonsai's roots when it needs repotting and mine certainly is not as crowded at that! I can see nearly entirely soil with a few roots poking through each side.
I have one more quick question about feed! The bottle suggests 5mm to 1 litre water, presumably then I should just mix this in when I water the tree.
Cheers,
Woody
I have one more quick question about feed! The bottle suggests 5mm to 1 litre water, presumably then I should just mix this in when I water the tree.
Cheers,
Woody
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Gnome
- Super Green Thumb
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- Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:17 am
- Location: Western PA USDA Zone 6A
Woody,
Ok, since it is in leaf this time of year and was sold as a Chinese Elm I must revise my initial response. I would say that it is most likely a Chinese Elm deliberately misidentified as a Zelkova. Look at the comparison below.
[url=https://img255.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zelelmzz6.jpg][img]https://img255.imageshack.us/img255/2258/zelelmzz6.th.jpg[/img][/url]
The shoot on the left is a Zelkova, and the right a Chinese Elm. Note the obvious size difference, the U.S. 25c piece is about 24mm in diameter.
I treat mine as deciduous trees and re-pot in the spring. I cant say whether the current lack of foliage is due to coming out of dormancy or some other kind of stress. Probably the surest thing to do right now is nothing. You say the root system seems to be in good condition. If you are careful with your watering practices you should be able to get it through this season and re-pot into proper bonsai soil as it comes out of dormancy next spring. This will also allow you the opportunity to learn about and to acquire a proper soiless medium to re-pot it with.
This assumes that you will allow it to go dormant, yes this means outside. It should go outside soon, as weather permits. Stay outside all summer, throughout the fall and only be sheltered for the coldest part of the year.
Norm
Edit:
Ok, since it is in leaf this time of year and was sold as a Chinese Elm I must revise my initial response. I would say that it is most likely a Chinese Elm deliberately misidentified as a Zelkova. Look at the comparison below.
[url=https://img255.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zelelmzz6.jpg][img]https://img255.imageshack.us/img255/2258/zelelmzz6.th.jpg[/img][/url]
The shoot on the left is a Zelkova, and the right a Chinese Elm. Note the obvious size difference, the U.S. 25c piece is about 24mm in diameter.
I treat mine as deciduous trees and re-pot in the spring. I cant say whether the current lack of foliage is due to coming out of dormancy or some other kind of stress. Probably the surest thing to do right now is nothing. You say the root system seems to be in good condition. If you are careful with your watering practices you should be able to get it through this season and re-pot into proper bonsai soil as it comes out of dormancy next spring. This will also allow you the opportunity to learn about and to acquire a proper soiless medium to re-pot it with.
This assumes that you will allow it to go dormant, yes this means outside. It should go outside soon, as weather permits. Stay outside all summer, throughout the fall and only be sheltered for the coldest part of the year.
Norm
Edit:
Yes, follow the directions about mixing and use as your second watering. In other words water with clear water first, this wets the soil allowing the second watering (with fertilizer) to be more effective.I have one more quick question about feed! The bottle suggests 5mm to 1 litre water, presumably then I should just mix this in when I water the tree.