Rooting a chinese elm cutting

[constantstaticx3]

I've been looking at my chinese elm lately and realize that an old wooded branch needs to be removed to better ramify the tree. I was wondering if anyone has ever tried to root a woody cutting from a chinese elm. I know ynot has been doing it with ficus and has been very successful. Is this any different?

Tom

[ynot]

Tom,

I am heartened that you are reading my random threads on various projects. . { If any little bit is moderately helpful so much the better }.

As for hardwood Chinese elm cuttings, Never tried it.

[url=https://www.bonsai4me.com/SpeciesGuide/Ulmus.html]Harry Harrington[/url] has this to say:

Propagation: Sow seed outdoors in Autumn or Spring. Greenwood cuttings in Summer. Hardwood cuttings in Winter. Air-layering after spring growth has hardened.

So the timing is right, But I have no details...yet.

I am still digging for some answers to this [I am sure it is possible just looking for some details for you.]

ynot

[constantstaticx3]

I'm sure its possible too I just wanted to see if anyone had done it before and see if anyone had any tips. You posted a link before and it showed a very large olice tree that the entire base was cut off of and it grew, amazingly, a whole new root system from nothing. I cant seem to find it but you may know what I mean.

Tom

[ynot]

Tom,

I have no doubt that you mean [url=https://www.dugzbonsai.com/olivehead1.htm]this.[/url]

Check out his Trident Maple fusing exploits also.... Prepare to be amazed!

Enjoy !!

ynot

[constantstaticx3]

Yea I read pretty much everything on that site last night in about an hour and its hard to believe that its even possible that you can make a bonsai out of that but he not only makes a bonsai its a very inpressive one. The one he does with the metal wiring was incredible, I like how its hollow but I was thinking, wouldn't that rot once it is finished and there is no air circulation on the inside? Nevertheless he's got a pretty good thing going there.

Tom

[Gnome]

Tom,

I have tried hardwood cuttings from Chinese Elm. I got them to callous but none ever struck. I had better luck however with semi-hardwood cuttings in the summer.

Norm

[ynot]

Tom,
[url=https://www.sfws.auburn.edu/sfnmc/class/fy614/cutting.html]Here[/url] is an in depth article on cuttings from the Auburn University Dept. of Forestry.

It is not bonsai oriented in nature but it still has some good info in it.

[url=https://www.evergreengardenworks.com/cuttings.htm]This[/url]is from EGGW and has a lot of relevant info wrt cuttings for bonsai in it.

...It's a start

ynot

[constantstaticx3]

Thanks for doing some research for me. Although it doesn't look like this will be successful because neither of these articles indicate anything about older wood. They all say, unless I missed something, that you should use wood that has hardend from previous years growth, the wood I would like to to root may be five or so years old, but it never hurts to try and if it works well I've learned something new. I keep thinking though of the site with the olive tree, if he can root a large tree then maybe I can root this small branch. Thanks for all the help.

Tom

[ynot]

Thanks for doing some research for me. Although it doesn't look like this will be successful because neither of these articles indicate anything about older wood. They all say, unless I missed something, that you should use wood that has hardend from previous years growth, the wood I would like to to root may be five or so years old, but it never hurts to try and if it works well I've learned something new.

Yeah, I understand that- 'Hardwood' is different than 'old wood' But give it a shot using some of the effective techniques re: in the articles. {IE: Containment [for humidity], Bottom heat, Proper 'soil', Rooting hormone etc..} Won't hurt any

I keep thinking though of the site with the olive tree, if he can root a large tree then maybe I can root this small branch. Thanks for all the help.

Some of that has to do with the species obviously but Ulmus are not generally considered difficult to root [ That is my understanding at least.]

Take lots of pictures and let us know how it goes.

Good luck!

ynot

[constantstaticx3]

I thought of a possible way to do it, feel free to make suggestions. I recenly bought a pitcher plant that came in a small little greenhouse type container, it is small and has no drainage holes in it. My thinking is I will fill the bottom with coarse well drainind soil (I may do all akadama), I will mist the cutting dip it in root hormone powder and plant. Then mist just enough to soak the soil and the cutting, then mist the top cover and put the cover on. The idea is the mist on the top cover will drip onto the cutting periodicly throughout the day. Then, since air circulation is important, I will remove the top cover during the night allow it to dry just a bit and repeat the procces in the morning. This whole thing will be placed in a south facing window. I may also be able to get a hold of a heating pad, if I do I will scrap the cover cuz that will just cook it.

Tell me what you think of my plan.

Tom

[Gnome]

Tom,

I have kept cuttings "under glass" before it is a useful technique to help keep humidity up. The problem you face with rooting cuttings is keeping the green tissue alive until new roots can form, some form of cover can help in this regard.

I would rethink the South facing window though. It may be a bit much for an unrooted cutting. There is a structure known as a "Nearing frame" that is used to root cuttings outdoors and they are always oriented to the North so it only receives indirect light.

Norm

[constantstaticx3]

Ok I made the cutting and am going to follow my plan but I did put it in a north facing window.

I took a pictorial of my process, would you like me to post it here or in the gallery?

Tom

[ynot]

I took a pictorial of my process, would you like me to post it here or in the gallery?

Tom

I vote here. To save some jumping around.

ynot

[constantstaticx3]

Ok here it is then. This is the branch on the tree. Its shape and location are unnecessary.
[url=https://img523.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01321tt5.jpg][img]https://img523.imageshack.us/img523/5274/dsc01321tt5.th.jpg[/img][/url]
I first prepared the greenhouse be bleaching it as directed by EGGW.

Then I filled the base with akadama.
[url=https://img329.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01322ex2.jpg][img]https://img329.imageshack.us/img329/261/dsc01322ex2.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Next I made the cut.
[url=https://img92.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01323br7.jpg][img]https://img92.imageshack.us/img92/8064/dsc01323br7.th.jpg[/img][/url]

EGGW also suggests to dip the cutting in bleach so I did that and rinsed it off. Then I dipped it into some root hormone powder and sunk it into the akadama. I misted the soil and the cutting just enough to soak it. I also added a small amount of spagnum moss to help keep moister close to the cutting.
[url=https://img158.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01324am7.jpg][img]https://img158.imageshack.us/img158/2912/dsc01324am7.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Then I misted the top cover, which was also bleached and placed that ontop.
[url=https://img413.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01326de9.jpg][img]https://img413.imageshack.us/img413/323/dsc01326de9.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Finaly, here it is in my north facing window.
[url=https://img413.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01327rh4.jpg][img]https://img413.imageshack.us/img413/3758/dsc01327rh4.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Now all I can do is hope and wait.

Tom

[Gnome]

Tom,

Your work so far seems OK. I do have a question though. The cutting has an unusual shape to it. Do you have anything specifically in mind for it or are you just trying your hand at the whole process? Good luck with it.

Norm

[constantstaticx3]

Yea I know it has an unusual shape to it but I figured if it works then I would be able to trim that off and grow a new top to it. I just realized that the branch needed to be removed and it would be a good oppurtunity to try my hand at rooting a cutting.

Tom

[ynot]

EGGW also suggests to dip the cutting in bleach so I did that and rinsed it off.

Tom

EGGW refers to:

Use a ten percent bleach solution (nine parts water, one bleach) to clean everything including the flats, shears, your hands and the cuttings.

I hope this solution is what you used.

FYI, Another way to make a cutting [or otherwise] propagator is to remove the bottom from a plastic 2 liter bottle and find a properly sized pot that matches the diameter of the bottle [4" or 5" I cannot recall at the moment].

Invert the bottle [leave the cap on] over the pot and you have an instant humidity dome [You can affix it to the rim {best - IMO} or just set it there dependant upon the space required.]

Cheap and easy- If not especially beautiful.

ynot

[constantstaticx3]

Yes I didn't measure exactly but I barely put any bleach in and I set it over night too. I just dipped the cutting in for a second in the morning and quickly rinsed it off.

Yea I was thinking of making my own greehouse contraption like that but then I rememberd that I had this small one that would save some time and would be sufficient enough until it rooted and it had to be repotted.

Tom

[ynot]

Yes I didn't measure exactly but I barely put any bleach in and I set it over night too. I just dipped the cutting in for a second in the morning and quickly rinsed it off.

Cool, I suspected as much. Just seeking some clarity for the readers who might not surf up the EGGW site.

Yea I was thinking of making my own greehouse contraption like that but then I rememberd that I had this small one that would save some time and would be sufficient enough until it rooted and it had to be repotted.

Tom

Yeah there are lots of ways to do it. [Like lots of things in bonsai ].

Look forward to seeing how it works.

ynot

[tommywing]

any news on this?

I was going to try something similar.

[constantstaticx3]

Sorry, I should have updated sooner.

It was unsuccessful but only because I think I made it too complicated. I didn't always remember to remove the top of the mini greenhouse and it ended up growing a fungus on it and it rotted. I'm going to try this again soon but I'm going to take a more simple approach and just pot it in some coarse medium and root hormone and keep it moist.

I've head that Chinese elms are pretty easy to do this with so I believe a little less complexity should yield a better result.

Tom

[tommywing]

The the old Ockhams razor usually holds true I find.

I'll keep you posted on mine.

[ynot]

The the old Ockhams razor usually holds true I find.

LOL - Also sometimes called the 'KISS' theory for those of a less philosophical nature.

KISS= Keep It Simple Stupid

ynot

[tommywing]

Hi
I thought I'd post an update, I had three cuttings, one went dry and crispy two remain, I planted them on the 23rd July. The two that remain have decent looking leaves but no visible roots, any idea what to look our for? When to take them out and plant them?

There is very little info on this that I could find!

I'm too poor to buy books!

[Gnome]

Tommywing,

but no visible roots

How did you find that they have no roots yet? It is best to just let them be and not go digging around.

any idea what to look our for?

Fresh growth is the best indicator that they have rooted.

When to take them out and plant them?

You have not mentioned what they are in now. This late in the year, if they root, you will probably want to just leave them until next spring and then re-pot.

Norm

[tommywing]

Both cuttings are in see through containers under the ready mix Akadama/clay etc. That's how I can keep an eye out for roots.

I'll leave them alone for some time as you suggest, cheers.

[constantstaticx3]

I've just tried to root a few cork bark elm cuttings and none of them took. I tried using regular potting soil to keep the moisture in but I think that backfire maybe I'll try again with some of my gritty soil when the tree grows more shoots.

Tom