black pines

[gbhunter77]

I hate to fill this forum with my silly questions. However that being said I went to a workshop over the weekend and we were workng one on one on jade...this was the same gent that chewed me out before. He did invite me to this one..I thought that to be odd. I worked on my jade with no help and he seemed to get...I hate to say it. An orgasmic reaction when I got it "right". Anyway the place we were at had a wonderful black pine. With my wife's blessing I got it. The question is ,can this plant be left outside in a container if wrapped in burlap to protect from wind. I placed the pot the plant came in into a larger pot filled with aged back to raise the temp a tiny bit as it decays. Now I am just concerned with survival of the plant. I did pluck a few needles as was recomended to me by club members but I really want this one to live and thrive and look nice. I can see what I want I just have to make it happen. I watched all the u tube videos I could get my paws on. Seems people are not erm united in how to grow these plants. Does anyone here grow such plants and could you point me to she reliable resources.

[Gnome]

gbhunter77,

I am growing two needle pines but not Black Pines specifically. Mine are not really coddled much but I do handle them as I do my Chinese Elms, in my unheated garage during the worst of the winter.

Black Pines may not be as hardy as the species I am growing and your climate is probably harsher as well. In the short term I don't think you have anything to worry about but as winter progresses you may need to make other arrangements.

If other club members are growing this species in your area I would suggest that you discuss specifics with them, soon.

Norm

[TomM]

We've recently had workshops with Boon, Suthin, and with Bernie Gastrich. Japanese black pines can be complex and really do need some special care.

In my area they need to come into an unheated room for the Winter as they are not hardy to zone 4. I use an attached woodshed/workshop. I have 3 but this is my first year with them and cannot give a lot of advice based on personal experience. They will be kept in a space that is cold but does not drop below 20-30 degrees or so. And the trees will be protected against wind. They will not require light while dormant.

I agree with Norm - get advice from your local club members who have black pines.
Also see - https://bonsaiboon.com/
Another good article is here -
https://www.evergreengardenworks.com/pines.htm

[gbhunter77]

Since overwintering a black pine can be a challange my wife stated I can use the unused fridge to over winter it! Also at Lowes I found the neat tents for plants that will keep wind out and let moisture in. Wow. I do have a dilema. I have a p strobus and although not a good bonsai subject I have an idea for a design. The problem is the weather here is humid as junk an rains almost everyday. This pine hates too much water. When is a good time to get him out of the nursery crappy soil and into something more rocky. Can this be done this late in the year?

[TomM]

First - about storing your black pine in the refrigerator. They tend to be very dry and can over dry a pine. You should add water trays for extra humidity.

About re-potting any hardy trees. It should be done in late Winter / early Spring or as soon as the soil thaws out totally. In your area, like mine, that usually is between late March to mid April. This will give the tree the best chance for survival.

Basically the reason is this. In Fall and Winter the tree sends all its 'energy' into the roots and puts up the "DO NOT DISTURB" sign. Yeah they want to sleep now. When the frost leaves the soil these roots 'come alive' again. Spring warming causes the stored energy to stimulate the roots. The juices flow. The sign comes down and the active roots will welcome pruning and will quickly respond with new growth. THAT'S when fresh new soil should be provided, NOT when the needed rest period has them in dormancy.

I have a Japanese black pine that really needs re-potting. Bought it in mid Summer at a very well known bonsai nursery. It was 'on sale' as it was very root-bound in its 3 gallon nursery pot.

They warned me not to do it until Spring. But I was anxious to get it into better soil. The needles appeared weak, not producing new buds for next year. I took it to a workshop with Boon ( of www.bonsaiboon.com ) for a "second opinion" and got the same answers. Boon told me to be patient with this tree. Do the work in the correct season. He said that it has been this way for a long, long time. Roots are rotting away because of poor drainage. But it will not die before the Spring. Re-pot in Spring and it will recover quickly.

I still worry about this particular pine but I will trust the advice of those who know better than I - those who have 'been there, done that' dozens of times before - maybe hundreds! Much like the gent in your club.

[gbhunter77]

I just got a return letter from Mr. Boon. I did not remember writing one but obviously that is not true(chemo &*+&-&% everything about and in you). Mr. Boon stated that black pines need to be kept in sunlight and just above freezing...err they are zone 5 I'm zone 5b. I talked to 3 nurseries that sell them all stated the same thing, wind protection fast drainage mulch over pot and they suffer no loses. One of the nurseries is out in farmland country here and grows them I a plot wide open just burlap in the first years and then no cover. The two I bought which were considered excelent material already spent two years in this set up. I talked to the nursery owner and he stated the only losses they had were due to extreeme wet weather here in Michigan. Last year winter here was brutal the owner stated no cold loses at all, he stated once the snow covered them that was it as far as protection from temperature goes. I have not talked to any club members. I will later, however now I'm left in the dark sortof speaking. Mr Boon is from CA but he is very knowlagable and experianced. But I do not think that this many nurseries in MI would have trees that they would lose every year on the scale they do...I was warned by one of the nurserymen that a garage (unheated) can be much colder than a tree covered in snow. I could ask to have the pines overwibtered in a green house. The main question is ,is it possible that the pines here may be hardier
than ones in CA? I talked to a Chinese bonsai dealer who raises all sorts of bonsai and got the same answer, cover wind protection and done. I was also warned by the same bonsai dealer that if I leave my pine in a greenhouse from that point on that pine will need to be wintered in those conditions. Man this sucks I have no idea what to do.

[gbhunter77]

Seems the city are falls into the 6a category on the USA zones..I guess the pines should be fine.