Hi, I have posted questions about black pines before as I ordered one off the internet. I received it about a week ago and it was nothing like what I expected. I was expecting a small seedling from a 4'' pot but in fact the tree is much larger about a foot tall. The trunk splits off into a Y shape and I am planning on trimming one of the branches to creat an informal upright. I would like to post pictures so anyone can give me advice on different design ideas, bu I'm not sure how. Also I read an article that said I can repot in febuary and I plan to build a large training pot. Also the article said I could start fertilizing but it didn't say with waht kind. I was wondering if I should use a 0-10-10 or does it not matter for pines because the grow nearly all year long. Or should I just fertilize less in winter. Thanks for the advice in advance, I hope to find out how to post pictures soon.
Tom
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constantstaticx3
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Gnome
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Tom,
First things first; go here: https://imageshack.us/ "Browse" to the location on your PC where the image resides then click the "Host it" button.
After the file is done uploading choose the appropriate image code from the list, "thumbnail for forums" is good. Left click on the code to highlight the code then right click and COPY the code.
Come back here and right click and PASTE the code into your next post.
I look forward to seeing the tree. Please don't do any pruning yet, it is still early. More later.
Norm
First things first; go here: https://imageshack.us/ "Browse" to the location on your PC where the image resides then click the "Host it" button.
After the file is done uploading choose the appropriate image code from the list, "thumbnail for forums" is good. Left click on the code to highlight the code then right click and COPY the code.
Come back here and right click and PASTE the code into your next post.
I look forward to seeing the tree. Please don't do any pruning yet, it is still early. More later.
Norm
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constantstaticx3
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Hi, thanks, I've been trying to figure this out for days. Anyway you can kind of see the shape that the tree has. It is kind of odd and doesn't have many lower branches. There is one but it is very small and weak.
[url=https://img441.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01247nl0.jpg][img]https://img441.imageshack.us/img441/539/dsc01247nl0.th.jpg[/img][/url]
The trunk is long and I could not find any suitable nabari but I did not look too hard. I beleive it was made from a cutting and that is the reason for this. Nontheless, it has potential it just isn't clear to me yet.
[url=https://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01249ho5.jpg][img]https://img411.imageshack.us/img411/7087/dsc01249ho5.th.jpg[/img][/url]
I am planning to cut off one of the thick top branches and make it a jin but not till summer I no I shouldn't do it now although it is tempting to get started. I was also planning on trimming all the thicker lesser branches at the top or maybe all the branches alltogether because there is no real visable shape but I have not decided on anything yet.
[url=https://img65.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01250dg5.jpg][img]https://img65.imageshack.us/img65/9098/dsc01250dg5.th.jpg[/img][/url]
Also, I plan on repotting it in febuary and starting to fertilize. Shoul I use 0-10-10 or does it not matter for pines scince they never go completely dromant? I have a 2-4-.5 fish emulsion fertilizer can I use that in small amounts?
Thanks for all the help I no I'm asking a lot.
Tom
[url=https://img441.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01247nl0.jpg][img]https://img441.imageshack.us/img441/539/dsc01247nl0.th.jpg[/img][/url]
The trunk is long and I could not find any suitable nabari but I did not look too hard. I beleive it was made from a cutting and that is the reason for this. Nontheless, it has potential it just isn't clear to me yet.
[url=https://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01249ho5.jpg][img]https://img411.imageshack.us/img411/7087/dsc01249ho5.th.jpg[/img][/url]
I am planning to cut off one of the thick top branches and make it a jin but not till summer I no I shouldn't do it now although it is tempting to get started. I was also planning on trimming all the thicker lesser branches at the top or maybe all the branches alltogether because there is no real visable shape but I have not decided on anything yet.
[url=https://img65.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01250dg5.jpg][img]https://img65.imageshack.us/img65/9098/dsc01250dg5.th.jpg[/img][/url]
Also, I plan on repotting it in febuary and starting to fertilize. Shoul I use 0-10-10 or does it not matter for pines scince they never go completely dromant? I have a 2-4-.5 fish emulsion fertilizer can I use that in small amounts?
Thanks for all the help I no I'm asking a lot.
Tom
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Gnome
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Tom,
Did you purchase this tree from a bonsai nursery or a general type nursery. I ask because the lack of taper, movement and low branching is troubling. Unlike deciduous trees, that bud back fairly easily, pines are difficult to get new branches low once they are gone.
Leave the low branch and try to encourage it by making sure that the upper portion dose not shade the bottom of the tree. Cutting the top back may help in this regard. Without a low branch you will never be able to induce any taper in this trunk. You could get some movement by wiring but without taper it will always look juvenile.
One other option is to pursue a tree in the literati style. They are not really to my liking but you may find them more appealing. [url]https://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=literati%20bonsai&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi[/url]
Here is some other information that may help:
[url]https://www.evergreengardenworks.com/pines2.htm[/url]
[url]https://www.evergreengardenworks.com/pines.htm[/url]
Norm
Did you purchase this tree from a bonsai nursery or a general type nursery. I ask because the lack of taper, movement and low branching is troubling. Unlike deciduous trees, that bud back fairly easily, pines are difficult to get new branches low once they are gone.
Leave the low branch and try to encourage it by making sure that the upper portion dose not shade the bottom of the tree. Cutting the top back may help in this regard. Without a low branch you will never be able to induce any taper in this trunk. You could get some movement by wiring but without taper it will always look juvenile.
I might be inclined to leave it in that pot for season and begin a regimen of rather heavy fertilization in hopes of encouraging the lower branches. Rather than use a 0 Nitrogen fertilizer you should use a high N fertilizer early in the Spring and a balanced one, (10-10-10 or 20-20-20), regularly throughout the season.Also, I plan on repotting it in febuary and starting to fertilize. Shoul I use 0-10-10 or does it not matter for pines scince they never go completely dromant? I have a 2-4-.5 fish emulsion fertilizer can I use that in small amounts?
One other option is to pursue a tree in the literati style. They are not really to my liking but you may find them more appealing. [url]https://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=literati%20bonsai&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi[/url]
Here is some other information that may help:
[url]https://www.evergreengardenworks.com/pines2.htm[/url]
[url]https://www.evergreengardenworks.com/pines.htm[/url]
Norm
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constantstaticx3
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I was affraid you would say something like that. I new it was an odd shape to turn into a bonsai. I bought it from this site. https://www.meehansminiatures.com/shop/
I was surprised when I got it because of its shape, I figured because it was a bonsai site, it would be more refined.
Do you think that if I were to cut off all the branches that new buds would form all over and maybe give me some options? I also have tried a technique before of scoring the base of the trunk and covering it with root hormone powder and soil to create nabari. Ive tried this before on a previous pine and it worked. I hope it will work again and maybe the roots could give the trunk some taper. Maybe I could even try grafting.
I also am not a fan of the literati style. I would like to try and avoid that. Anyway thanks for the advice, I don't want to give up on it because I'm stuck with it anyway so I'll look at it as a learning experience. Thanks again.
Tom
I was surprised when I got it because of its shape, I figured because it was a bonsai site, it would be more refined.
Do you think that if I were to cut off all the branches that new buds would form all over and maybe give me some options? I also have tried a technique before of scoring the base of the trunk and covering it with root hormone powder and soil to create nabari. Ive tried this before on a previous pine and it worked. I hope it will work again and maybe the roots could give the trunk some taper. Maybe I could even try grafting.
I also am not a fan of the literati style. I would like to try and avoid that. Anyway thanks for the advice, I don't want to give up on it because I'm stuck with it anyway so I'll look at it as a learning experience. Thanks again.
Tom
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Gnome
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Tom,
By the way I am growing some Scots Pines from seed. This puts me in charge of the all important lower development of the seedlings. Although I readily admit I am a beginner with Pines as well. Good luck.
Norm
I purchased some starter (deciduous) material from them a bonsai show last summer and I am pleased with the plants. Not sure what happened with the Pine. Since there is nothing to provide scale in your photos, the problem may not be as bad as I first assumed. How high are the first vigorous branches?I was affraid you would say something like that. I new it was an odd shape to turn into a bonsai. I bought it from this site. https://www.meehansminiatures.com/shop/
I was surprised when I got it because of its shape, I figured because it was a bonsai site, it would be more refined.
I don't think you should proceed so quickly, a more gradual pruning may promote a bud to break low. If you cut all the foliage off a Pine it will almost surely die. You said that you already had a weak branch low. I would do everything I could to encourage that branch. Please review the information at the links that I provided. Brent has a lot of experience with Black Pines. He also sells material by the way and I feel certain that you would have done better with him than the plant you now have.Do you think that if I were to cut off all the branches that new buds would form all over and maybe give me some options?
Until you re-pot you really won't know what the roots are like. With the other issues that you face I don't think I would worry too much about the roots yet.I also have tried a technique before of scoring the base of the trunk and covering it with root hormone powder and soil to create nabari.
Unless you have experience grafting I would approach this option very cautiously.Maybe I could even try grafting.
By the way I am growing some Scots Pines from seed. This puts me in charge of the all important lower development of the seedlings. Although I readily admit I am a beginner with Pines as well. Good luck.
Norm
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constantstaticx3
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I have also bought from them before at the philadelphia flower show every year and have been pleased with their material thats why I was so surprised with this tree. I plan on emailing them and asking question maybe if I say the right thing I can send it back, I doubt it but its worth a try. And you said that you know some one who sells better material, if there is a site he has that I can see what he has that would be great and I may consider it if I can return the tree I have.
I fim stuck with the tree I'm sure I can make the best of it. You asked for measurements and I agree it may not be so bad. The overall hight of the tree from the bottom of the pot to top is 24" the pot itself is a little less than 5". From the top of the pot to the first weak branch its 3". From the top of the pot to the second weak branch it is 5.5". From the top of the pot to the Y it the trunk where most of the branching is is about 8". This may be less of a problem than you originally thought but the trunk still goes down in the pot for a couple mor inches. I'm still going to email the store and see what they say.
Thanks for all the help and advice, its so much easier to make decisions when theres secondary input.
Tom
I fim stuck with the tree I'm sure I can make the best of it. You asked for measurements and I agree it may not be so bad. The overall hight of the tree from the bottom of the pot to top is 24" the pot itself is a little less than 5". From the top of the pot to the first weak branch its 3". From the top of the pot to the second weak branch it is 5.5". From the top of the pot to the Y it the trunk where most of the branching is is about 8". This may be less of a problem than you originally thought but the trunk still goes down in the pot for a couple mor inches. I'm still going to email the store and see what they say.
Thanks for all the help and advice, its so much easier to make decisions when theres secondary input.
Tom
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Gnome
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Tom,
I looked at the link you provided. Am I correct in assuming that you only paid $5.25 for the tree? If so perhaps you should consider simply keeping it. You can use it as "guinea pig" in order to begin learning the somewhat specific process of pruning Pines. This is a rather detailed process and having an extra plant might be a good thing.
Reviewing the measurements you provided there is 10 inches (considering the buried portion of the trunk) to the first strong branches. This will be a problem when it comes to creating taper. If you cut the top back partially you may be able to promote the growth of the lower branches which will help greatly toward future development.
Norm
I looked at the link you provided. Am I correct in assuming that you only paid $5.25 for the tree? If so perhaps you should consider simply keeping it. You can use it as "guinea pig" in order to begin learning the somewhat specific process of pruning Pines. This is a rather detailed process and having an extra plant might be a good thing.
Reviewing the measurements you provided there is 10 inches (considering the buried portion of the trunk) to the first strong branches. This will be a problem when it comes to creating taper. If you cut the top back partially you may be able to promote the growth of the lower branches which will help greatly toward future development.
Have you followed the links to the articles at Evergreen Garden Works? If not please do so, the owner has much more experience than I and discusses these issues there. If you follow the link at the top of the page to his "Plant Catalog" you will find several species, as well as named varieties for sale. Note that not all varieties are available at all times so read carefully. Also depending on what you are interested in the cost may very well be more than you have spent so far. It is up to you to decide what approach you wish to take.And you said that you know some one who sells better material, if there is a site he has that I can see what he has that would be great
Norm
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constantstaticx3
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Yes the tree was not that much but I got the 4" pot which was a little more the total was around $14 because of shipping. I agree it could be a good tree to learn on and if I cant send it back then I will definantly keep it to work with.
Also, I didn't realize that that site had a catalog. I have read the article on how to take care of pines before but I didn't realize the full extent of the site. It does seem they have good specimine and the 2 3/4 inch size looks perfect and the price is no bad. I figure I can test ideas on the tree I have now and learn off of it while I try to fully develope the seedling hich is what I wanted to do in the first place.
Thanks a lot. I'll keep everything you said in mind and continue to learn all I can.
Tom
Also, I didn't realize that that site had a catalog. I have read the article on how to take care of pines before but I didn't realize the full extent of the site. It does seem they have good specimine and the 2 3/4 inch size looks perfect and the price is no bad. I figure I can test ideas on the tree I have now and learn off of it while I try to fully develope the seedling hich is what I wanted to do in the first place.
Thanks a lot. I'll keep everything you said in mind and continue to learn all I can.
Tom