My Chinese Elm, that I have fussed over for two years, had an accident.. and then insult to injury, I may have killed it!...
Several months ago, at a Bonsai Club meeting, another member dropped it and broke the pot. I went home and immediately potted it up in a homemade mixture of succulent soil (!great for drainage!), the soil it was in, and a quick addition of some sandy soil from my garden..(BIG mistake). It was rootbound, so I straightened out the roots and put it in a 5 gal pot for growth.
BOY, did it grow! the Leaf canopy doubled! Then I got sick, and I didn't check it for the last few days... Disaster.. The leaves are black, withered with fungus.. and I'm afraid it is a soil borne, (because gee.. I've had some garden plants mysteriously die, too.)
Amazing how in a few days, you can get older and wiser...
ANyway.. I think I need a soil drench fungicide.. and the only thing I can find a reference too is a Green Light Systemic, or Fertilome Systemic Liquid. THink it's too late?
Has anyone had any experience with these on Elms?
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Gnome
- Super Green Thumb
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- Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:17 am
- Location: Western PA USDA Zone 6A
Momg,
I'm having a hard time reconciling two facts as you presented them. You say that a few days without water has caused a (presumed) fungal problem. But if it is in a five gallon container, that includes garden soil, I am having a hard time believing that the problem is a lack of water. Quite the contrary, I would assume that the soil has been staying too wet and it has just caught up with you.
The way I see it you have two choices, either leave it as is and be more careful with your watering practices or do an emergency re-pot into a smaller pot and a more free draining soil. An overly large pot can cause problems especially with when denser soil is used. Garden soil is generally considered inappropriate for bonsai for these very reasons. I use an entirely soiless mixture that does include some organic material but no actual soil. I also avoid finely milled peat.
I think I would opt for the re-pot but only if you are prepared and have the proper soil on hand. If not try using the chopstick method to judge when the soil actually requires water. You can find it outlined here:
https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1479
Either way you will be taking a chance, please let us know what you decide.
I have battled fungus with this species, usually in the spring when it's damp and cool, but have never resorted to a systemic. I tried Neem Oil as a fungicide but found it lacking and returned to what I knew worked, Daconil.
Norm
P.S. Perhaps it would be helpful if you posted a picture or two. In re-reading your post I may have misinterpreted your situation.
I'm having a hard time reconciling two facts as you presented them. You say that a few days without water has caused a (presumed) fungal problem. But if it is in a five gallon container, that includes garden soil, I am having a hard time believing that the problem is a lack of water. Quite the contrary, I would assume that the soil has been staying too wet and it has just caught up with you.
The way I see it you have two choices, either leave it as is and be more careful with your watering practices or do an emergency re-pot into a smaller pot and a more free draining soil. An overly large pot can cause problems especially with when denser soil is used. Garden soil is generally considered inappropriate for bonsai for these very reasons. I use an entirely soiless mixture that does include some organic material but no actual soil. I also avoid finely milled peat.
I think I would opt for the re-pot but only if you are prepared and have the proper soil on hand. If not try using the chopstick method to judge when the soil actually requires water. You can find it outlined here:
https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1479
Either way you will be taking a chance, please let us know what you decide.
I have battled fungus with this species, usually in the spring when it's damp and cool, but have never resorted to a systemic. I tried Neem Oil as a fungicide but found it lacking and returned to what I knew worked, Daconil.
Norm
P.S. Perhaps it would be helpful if you posted a picture or two. In re-reading your post I may have misinterpreted your situation.
Sounds funny that it would be fine for months, and then decline so rapidly over just a few days...
Black and withered sounds like too much water to me too (done that myself a couple of times
Are the plants in your garden showing the same symptoms? Same timeline? Did you use anything to treat them? Maybe before you used the soil in the pot? Use any pesticides anywhere in your garden lately? How about your neighbors?
Pics of the garden plants would help too...
Good luck.
Black and withered sounds like too much water to me too (done that myself a couple of times
Are the plants in your garden showing the same symptoms? Same timeline? Did you use anything to treat them? Maybe before you used the soil in the pot? Use any pesticides anywhere in your garden lately? How about your neighbors?
Pics of the garden plants would help too...
Good luck.
I believe I've made it more complicated than it is.
First, no I hadn't overwatered.. in fact, the plant was dry was dry... but that week we had several mornings of cooler temps than normal with hours of fog. Along with the stress of being dry, that did it.
Now, that I know they are susceptible to black spot.. I'll treat the simplest solution first. Thanks... incidentally, another one has the first signs of it.
Apparently, in the last 35 years, bonsai growing has changed a lot! I read the articles you sent me to.. and paid particular attention to planting in sterile Kitty Litter and Oil absorbent. That would be a lot safer than my old ways. I remember a product for hydroponic houseplants called LECA. Has anyone used that? I believe the size would be larger though, and it NEVER disintegrated..
Thanks too for the chopstick idea... That's a perfect way of knowing, not guessing.
This "old dog" is learning some new tricks!!!
First, no I hadn't overwatered.. in fact, the plant was dry was dry... but that week we had several mornings of cooler temps than normal with hours of fog. Along with the stress of being dry, that did it.
Now, that I know they are susceptible to black spot.. I'll treat the simplest solution first. Thanks... incidentally, another one has the first signs of it.
Apparently, in the last 35 years, bonsai growing has changed a lot! I read the articles you sent me to.. and paid particular attention to planting in sterile Kitty Litter and Oil absorbent. That would be a lot safer than my old ways. I remember a product for hydroponic houseplants called LECA. Has anyone used that? I believe the size would be larger though, and it NEVER disintegrated..
Thanks too for the chopstick idea... That's a perfect way of knowing, not guessing.
This "old dog" is learning some new tricks!!!
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Gnome
- Super Green Thumb
- Posts: 5122
- Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:17 am
- Location: Western PA USDA Zone 6A
Momg,
If you search the forum you'll find that I have written numerous times about my struggles with black spot fungus. One tree in particular seems very susceptible to this malady. If this is what you are experiencing note that damaged leaves will not recover and in fact help to spread the fungus.
Fungicides are preventative not curative, that is you must spray before the problem manifests itself. Once infected removing the infected leaves is the first step in controlling BSF. Often you will find that tender shoots, and in bad cases even woody ones, are also afflicted. All infected material must be removed, even if this means rather extensive pruning. After removing all such material you can begin to spray with your chosen fungicide.
WRT bonsai media we have a thread that gives some good information.
https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3422
Norm
If you search the forum you'll find that I have written numerous times about my struggles with black spot fungus. One tree in particular seems very susceptible to this malady. If this is what you are experiencing note that damaged leaves will not recover and in fact help to spread the fungus.
Fungicides are preventative not curative, that is you must spray before the problem manifests itself. Once infected removing the infected leaves is the first step in controlling BSF. Often you will find that tender shoots, and in bad cases even woody ones, are also afflicted. All infected material must be removed, even if this means rather extensive pruning. After removing all such material you can begin to spray with your chosen fungicide.
WRT bonsai media we have a thread that gives some good information.
https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3422
Norm
Thanks for all your help.. My elm is looking good.. The remaining leaves are OK so far.. It is a special tree to me, because I bought it when my son and his wife left for a 2 year sailing trip in the South Paciifc.. Guess I felt as long as I could keep it alive, they'd be OK.. (Its a Mother thing..) They just came home a few months ago..
I won't repot yet as I'm afraid to do anything to disturb it now!
Thanks again.
I won't repot yet as I'm afraid to do anything to disturb it now!
Thanks again.