Below are the before and after pics of my Juniper's (nicknamed JP) new shape.
FYI - This is the same bonsai we discussed in https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3866
What I initially saw when considering the natural shape of the bonsai was an upside-down Nike symbol or a wave. So I tried to keep something of a flowing feeling about it as I shaped it.
There is a bare spot I will need to address just over the right edge of the bon, but I am pleased with the initial outcome.
Any thoughts and ideas will be appreciated (no matter how critical).
Unshaped:
[img]https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v520/PastorErin/Bonsai/CIMG2379.jpg[/img]
JP's First Shape:
[img]https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v520/PastorErin/Bonsai/CIMG2384.jpg[/img]
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PastorErin
- Newly Registered
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- Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2006 11:32 pm
- Location: Topeka, KS
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Gnome
- Super Green Thumb
- Posts: 5122
- Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:17 am
- Location: Western PA USDA Zone 6A
Erin,
Now that I have taken some time to consider your tree I do have a few observations. It seems to me that you have really approached this tree with a haste that was unnecessary at best and possibly detrimental to the tree in the long run. I have pointed out, on numerous occasions, that Junipers are really out of their element being kept indoors. It would have been far better to simply try to keep it healthy throughout the remainder of the winter and begin your work in the spring.
By removing the branches lower on the trunk you have slowed the growth of the trunk, girth and taper. It is always best to leave low branches on young material. Similarly, by pruning the branches bare as you have, you have limited the ramification and thickening of branches and in turn limited your styling choices. Look at the tree I posted in the other thread, not that it is that wonderful. Once I worked the lower third I found I did not have a vision for this tree so I simply left it. There is plenty of time, I hope. By the way, that tree was for a styling contest on another forum, which by its very nature is rushing the process, so I am somewhat guilty of the same offence.
I fully understand your eagerness to begin learning the art of bonsai but keep in mind that, theoretically, you will be working on this tree for decades to come so you really have gained little. Bonsai is a life-long learning experience and if you stay with it this will become one of a long list of lessons, don't rush. Human nature being what it is, many of these lessons are learned the hard way. We have all done things that, in retrospect, may not have been prudent.
Most members on this board seem to be beginners who are experiencing a problem or are simply seeking an identification of their new tree so I have not really addressed this issue before. These small, mass produced bonsai (I hate the word mallsai) are going to remain just that, small. Although some species commonly used for bonsai can be grown out, many are cut down from larger specimens. The really fine Junipers that you have probably seen during your recent searches are almost invariably collected. They come from the wild, the urban landscape or old-fashioned nurseries that actually grow their own material.
I hope I have not come off overly harsh, as that was not my intention. You can enjoy the Juniper for what it is, a small bonsai. You can also use it as a learning mechanism so when you do run across that fine specimen you will be better prepared.
Norm
Now that I have taken some time to consider your tree I do have a few observations. It seems to me that you have really approached this tree with a haste that was unnecessary at best and possibly detrimental to the tree in the long run. I have pointed out, on numerous occasions, that Junipers are really out of their element being kept indoors. It would have been far better to simply try to keep it healthy throughout the remainder of the winter and begin your work in the spring.
By removing the branches lower on the trunk you have slowed the growth of the trunk, girth and taper. It is always best to leave low branches on young material. Similarly, by pruning the branches bare as you have, you have limited the ramification and thickening of branches and in turn limited your styling choices. Look at the tree I posted in the other thread, not that it is that wonderful. Once I worked the lower third I found I did not have a vision for this tree so I simply left it. There is plenty of time, I hope. By the way, that tree was for a styling contest on another forum, which by its very nature is rushing the process, so I am somewhat guilty of the same offence.
I fully understand your eagerness to begin learning the art of bonsai but keep in mind that, theoretically, you will be working on this tree for decades to come so you really have gained little. Bonsai is a life-long learning experience and if you stay with it this will become one of a long list of lessons, don't rush. Human nature being what it is, many of these lessons are learned the hard way. We have all done things that, in retrospect, may not have been prudent.
Most members on this board seem to be beginners who are experiencing a problem or are simply seeking an identification of their new tree so I have not really addressed this issue before. These small, mass produced bonsai (I hate the word mallsai) are going to remain just that, small. Although some species commonly used for bonsai can be grown out, many are cut down from larger specimens. The really fine Junipers that you have probably seen during your recent searches are almost invariably collected. They come from the wild, the urban landscape or old-fashioned nurseries that actually grow their own material.
I hope I have not come off overly harsh, as that was not my intention. You can enjoy the Juniper for what it is, a small bonsai. You can also use it as a learning mechanism so when you do run across that fine specimen you will be better prepared.
Norm
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PastorErin
- Newly Registered
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2006 11:32 pm
- Location: Topeka, KS
Thanks for the input. As this is my first bonsai, I fully expect learning from a lot of mistakes.
I had a feeling that I was doing the work at the wrong time of year. But I just coudn't wait. I'm sure I could have... but I just didn't want to. I know that his flies in the face of everything bonsai, but it is the sad truth. My hope is that we'll be able to make it through the next year and the consequences of rushing will not be too extreme.
As for the design, I really did get what I was looking for... almost. I did not intend for the bare spot I mentioned to be so bare. Regarding the removing of branches from the lowe part of the trunk: I did remove one, directly below the new lowest branch (you can see the wound left behind).
I hadn't realized, before I cut it, that doing so would aversely effect the girth of the tree as much as you suggest. Would I (if the bonsai survives) be able to acheive the girth I would desire eventually by scoring the length of the trunk and allowing it to heal. I've read in multiple sources that this is a method for adding girth that works particularly well. If this isn't accurate, please let me know.
Again, I really do appreciate your comments. I am one who believes that if your peers only point out the things you've done well, you never have any reason or incentive to improve.
~Erin
I had a feeling that I was doing the work at the wrong time of year. But I just coudn't wait. I'm sure I could have... but I just didn't want to. I know that his flies in the face of everything bonsai, but it is the sad truth. My hope is that we'll be able to make it through the next year and the consequences of rushing will not be too extreme.
As for the design, I really did get what I was looking for... almost. I did not intend for the bare spot I mentioned to be so bare. Regarding the removing of branches from the lowe part of the trunk: I did remove one, directly below the new lowest branch (you can see the wound left behind).
I hadn't realized, before I cut it, that doing so would aversely effect the girth of the tree as much as you suggest. Would I (if the bonsai survives) be able to acheive the girth I would desire eventually by scoring the length of the trunk and allowing it to heal. I've read in multiple sources that this is a method for adding girth that works particularly well. If this isn't accurate, please let me know.
Again, I really do appreciate your comments. I am one who believes that if your peers only point out the things you've done well, you never have any reason or incentive to improve.
~Erin
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Gnome
- Super Green Thumb
- Posts: 5122
- Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:17 am
- Location: Western PA USDA Zone 6A
Erin,
Glad to hear that you are willing to accept constructive criticism.
This is a very important concept that many overlook due to their excitement or simply being unaware. Many bonsai texts cite the rules, one of which is to remove all branches on the lower third of the trunk. What they often neglect to make clear is that this does not necessarily hold true for a tree still in development.
It is often said that small bonsai do not become large bonsai, and that you should decide on the ultimate, intended size of your bonsai before the final styling ever begins. In your case that decision was largely made before you purchased it.
If you really want a larger, thicker tree, the usual advice is to put it in the ground for years or even decades. Since you probably don't want to go that route simply learn to enjoy what you have. Bonsai come in all sizes. From trees that can be held in your hand "Mame" to truly huge "Imperial" bonsai.
If you are serious about this I suggest you acquire some more material in the spring. You still have some time to make some plans to purchase some new material.
Norm
Glad to hear that you are willing to accept constructive criticism.
There is a concept in bonsai known as a sacrifice (or sometimes, escape) branch. This is a branch that you know, or suspect, will not be used in your final design. It is allowed to grow wild in order to thicken the area of the trunk below. You can even have several.Regarding the removing of branches from the lowe part of the trunk: I did remove one, directly below the new lowest branch (you can see the wound left behind).
This is a very important concept that many overlook due to their excitement or simply being unaware. Many bonsai texts cite the rules, one of which is to remove all branches on the lower third of the trunk. What they often neglect to make clear is that this does not necessarily hold true for a tree still in development.
Yes there are several techniques meant to thicken a trunk. If I am not mistaken they serve to thicken a trunk in a localized area in order to correct reverse taper. Ultimately the only thing that really works is to have a lot of foliage, and to allow the passage of time. In short, unrestricted growth.Would I (if the bonsai survives) be able to acheive the girth I would desire eventually by scoring the length of the trunk and allowing it to heal. I've read in multiple sources that this is a method for adding girth that works particularly well. If this isn't accurate, please let me know.
It is often said that small bonsai do not become large bonsai, and that you should decide on the ultimate, intended size of your bonsai before the final styling ever begins. In your case that decision was largely made before you purchased it.
If you really want a larger, thicker tree, the usual advice is to put it in the ground for years or even decades. Since you probably don't want to go that route simply learn to enjoy what you have. Bonsai come in all sizes. From trees that can be held in your hand "Mame" to truly huge "Imperial" bonsai.
If you are serious about this I suggest you acquire some more material in the spring. You still have some time to make some plans to purchase some new material.
Norm