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Nature's Grasp
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Converting Large Japanese Maple Nursery Stock into Bonsai

I'm reading guides discouraging beginners from diving into the deep end with some outdoor bonsai, and that's exactly what I'm doing. Once I fell in love with the Japanese Maple (Acer palmatum), there was no stopping me from going to my local nursery and picking out a Japanese Maple. I'm okay with the idea of having to "creation prune" my bonsai.

At the nursery, they had 1 gallon and 2 gallon Japanese Maple (Bloodgood), which were grafted and quite an eye-sore for a future bonsai, and they were also quite very tall with little to no body. The 4-5 gallon non-grafted trees were just what I was looking for. However, they were larger than what I had in mind for my Japanese Maple bonsai. With my lack of experience, a large Japanese Maple has become a bit intimidating, since I don't want to hurt it, going into next year. And it feels like the guides that I read fall a little short in the advice I need.

I got some opinions from a family member who is not informed on bonsai at all. And it was told me that it was way too large. Some of the leaves have sun scorch on them from being in direct sunlight with no shade. And just a few of the small, pointless branches are dead, but not enough to warrant any concern for the health of the tree. I'm wondering, if I purchased the wrong tree and should return it to the nursery for a refund. But I feel these issues are only temporary, once the leaves fall off in the winter and some pruning is done. But one problem that the tree does have is the thick foliage on top, but weak foliage in the middle and lower section of the tree.

I purchased the tree, because of its potential for nice body and the branches and trunk looked promising for a future bonsai.

This is where I need some advice:

Is there such thing as picking out a bad Japanese Maple nursery stock for bonsai?
Did I pick out a bad one?
Is it too big?
Is it too late to prune the tree this year?
How much can I prune down the tree without ruining it? How about pruning it halfway down?
Would it be okay to pot it next year in spring time?

I've included some pictures. The tree stands almost 5 feet tall.

Album:
https://imageshack.us/g/534/img0211eqn.jpg/

kdodds
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I looked and looked and I honestly can say I haven't a clue as to what I'd do with this if keeping its current for were on the agenda. I wouldn't have purchased this tree, no, but done is done, right? I'd do one of two things, either trunk chop below all branching, or just above where it splits into main branches. By far, I'd prefer a chop, then let it grow for a few years, chop again, etc.

tomc
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I'm not sure if I would've bought that tree. I'm even less comfortable directing you how to prune it.

So I'm going to cop-out and offer a simple outline of how I might coppice any tree. Your esthetic will be your own.

Pick any of the three main branches and cut them off just above existing leaf sets. Your tree will want several (as in 4 to 6) weeks in a shaded environment after stumping.

I'm shaking my head as I write this. Usually my first stumping happens in-feild with a fully intact root system to pick up the lack of what I'm pruning.

Oh you might not kill this tree, but profound down sizing of one part (like crown or root mass), does not mean you can (or should) do both in the same year.

I have in the gallery section a photo of a pear tree that is about four years in root mass and stump pruning.

tomc
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A generalization for any maple is to top prune late vs early this reduces bleed-out.

A year may come when you might seek a return to a more vase shaped tree (it should not be this year) and the central branch will get pruned out altogether.

Um, um this subsumes some due dilligence of a concave pruner, collection of soil components, and a heap of reading.

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Nature's Grasp
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Thank you kdodds and tomc so much for your advice. I ended up returning the tree for a refund.

I later found out that Home Depot had a sale 50% off on shrubs and trees. So I ended up purchasing a Japanese Maple from there for $20, great deal! The tree that I purchased has a lot more promise as a future bonsai than my previous by far. It's younger, undeveloped branches, and not grafted. I'm much happier with this purchase.

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froggy
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Lol, I was going to say 'don't practise on an expensive specimen' - I got myself a 2 gallon maple which will need A LOT of growing out, plus an air layer above the graft (in process momentarily). But it won't kill me if it doesn't make it through the winter...
I also take a lot of cuttings for backup...
Anyhow, I am glad you got yourself a tree that gives you more inspiration on what to do with it. I find figuring out what has potential quite the learning curve... I guess as you start having a collection of trees, the need to pick up a suitable one TODAY disappears. So that the best specimen in the store, which still has little bonsai potential, can stay where it is...

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Nature's Grasp
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froggy wrote:Lol, I was going to say 'don't practise on an expensive specimen' - I got myself a 2 gallon maple which will need A LOT of growing out, plus an air layer above the graft (in process momentarily). But it won't kill me if it doesn't make it through the winter...
I also take a lot of cuttings for backup...
Anyhow, I am glad you got yourself a tree that gives you more inspiration on what to do with it. I find figuring out what has potential quite the learning curve... I guess as you start having a collection of trees, the need to pick up a suitable one TODAY disappears. So that the best specimen in the store, which still has little bonsai potential, can stay where it is...
Hi froggy,

I guess the excitement of creating a japanese maple bonsai got the best of me. As I started to form all my questions for this thread, I knew I was probably making some mistakes as a beginner, but I wanted to know for sure.

I'll be looking to do some air-layering in the coming days from some trees on my property. I'm very much looking forward to the project. But good luck with yours though, hope they take and last the winter!

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djlen
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First, it appears from the photos that the tree you have is a grafted tree, in other words the top has been grafted onto green rooting stock. I have seen a few, but not many trees on grafted stock that look like natural trees because of the bulge in then trunk. This ofcourse is just my opinion, but I wouldn't use one for bonsai culture.
You can prune the tree even this late but only lightly, cutting back small branches to one or two sets of leaves to encourage branching and filling out.
The Spring, before the buds swell is the best time to heavy prune any type of Maple. Once the sap starts to run Maples "bleed" and are very vulnerable to any heavy pruning.
Check your trunk and see if it looks natural to you before you invest a lot of time and energy in a tree that may never look like a natural tree. I could be wrong but it looks very much like a graft at it's base. If it's not grafted you can eventually get it to spread and taper to look very nice by re-potting into a training pot with a piece of slate or similar right under the trunk to force surface roots and a widening of the base of the trunk.

kdodds
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I didn't even notice that, just looking form, but do have to agree. I've had bad experiences with grafted plants in the past, mostly roses. While it may not happen as often in maples as in roses, you do have to be careful about the root stock sending out suckers. In which case, you wind up with a tree that may not look Frankensteined if you chop below the graft, but also isn't the tree you wanted. There are SOOO many grafted specimens in e-bay that I've put up some leftovers I have that have been field grown from seed, from a parent tree over 40 years old.

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djlen
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That stuff is managable. What I have a problem with, with grafted trees is that, in my experience the rarely lose that grafted bulge which to me looks very unnatural.
Thing is, I'm not sure that it's a graft from the picture. Just looks like one......from here. :)

kdodds
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I just looked again and I don't see any scar, not even in the larger image. Oh well, moot point as it's been returned.

AndiAndi
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I am not in any way confident in choosing a tree for bonsai. I did, however, work in a bonsai museum, caring for the trees for 8 years. I thought I'd clear some things up for you and other readers. First- there are many ways to come to Bonsai. Originally trees were collected from mountainous habitats, potted back home and revered for their longevity and survival which is 'readable' in the appearance and growth history of a tree. The Chinese started this and called such planting 'penjing'. "Bonsai' is the Japanese take on 'penjing' and the artistic approaches and techniques are unique enough to warrant some study. Sub tropical regions exist in China so there are some traditional Chinese trees that folks in northern climates would grow indoors- Ficus species, for example. Chinese elm species seem to go one way or the other. Others like azaleas really want to be outside. And if you bring a juniper indoors- I'll guarantee it'll be a goner within a month! So- choosing an outdoor tree- one suitable for your climate- is a very good start. Japan, incidentally does not have those subtropical regions and traditional bonsai are all outdoor trees. It's also tradition for bonsai to be displayed indoors formally in tokenomas, but they don't stay indoors for long. Also traditional Japanese homes are not heated which is a big part of the problem for your tree in Ohio. In my experience, an outdoor tree that's been indoors for a week gets special care and love for the rest of the growing season.
Collecting 'yama dori' or mountain found trees is the starting place for bonsai, but there are some problems with that today. You shouldn't poach trees and you will need permits for public land collecting. Also, high altitudes might not exist where you live. Modern day artists collect and rescue trees from cattle grazing fields, construction sites, areas of storm damage- always with permission. Some favorites I got to work with were orchard trees whose homes were turned into parking lots. Some artists grow bonsai from seed or cuttings. Manipulating cuttings from the same tree, so that they grow at different rates makes good material for a forest planting. However, as one expert and owner of a decades old bonsai supply house once said to me," It's easier to make a big tree small than it is to plant a seed and wait 50 years for it to become bonsai." Indeed. Many fabulous bonsai begin their lives as nursery stock. There's a plethora of technique for integrating those "yama dori" characteristics in your bonsai. Anyway, I landed on this site because I just bought myself a Japanese Maple (Bloodgood) and whacked it joyfully on my balcony, this warm spring afternoon ("whack" is the official terminology, BTW!). Mine is grafted and I don't care. It isn't going to be bonsai, just container grown. Don't let yours dry out or scorch and you'll find they are pretty forgiving.

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Thanks for your insight, AndiAndi!

And welcome to our bonsai forum.
;)

Roger

jeff84
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this book is well worth the money, and will likely answer most if not all of your questions about bonsai

https://www.amazon.com/BONSAI-WORKSHOP- ... I+workshop



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