Repotting... How to Choose a Bonsai Pot?

[Petra26]

ive read that wonderful sticky topic by ynot and gnome. very helpful. now, my question is fairly simple. what kind of pot should I use? should I use a bigger/training pot? if so, how big are we talking about here? also, should I stick something under the bonsai to spread out the roots. so maybe a semi-deep pot but nice and wide?

here's the link to my previous post of my bonsai and pictures if you have forgotten...
[url]https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3001[/url]

I'm planning on heading out to walmart/target after work to go look for a nice pot and possibly some soil to mix together. I'm thinking of just mixing my existing schultz cactus/succulent soil
[url]https://www.schultz.com/ProductCategories/Soilsamendments/CactusSoil/[/url]
with some inorganic stuff I find at the store. I will use a window screen and filter out the smaller stuff from the mixture. (I'm kind of broke atm, school, work, need car, loans, etc... and don't want to spend a lot at the moment)

is there anything I should know about the care of the plant after I repot it? ive read not to fertilize, don't water too much, and leave it out of direct sun... anything else I need to know?

[Gnome]

Petra,

Firstly, reviewing your post I see that it was barely 6 weeks ago that your tree was having some difficulty. I assume that it is improved as of late or you would not be considering a repot now.

what kind of pot should I use? should I use a bigger/training pot? if so, how big are we talking about here?

Generally wider than deeper unless you have a specific need for a taller pot. Tall pots are usually reserved for cascade styles. Training pots are used to encourage growth and to thicken up the trunk, etc. Whether or not you use one is dependant upon your plans for the tree and its current state of development.

Be aware that although training pots are somewhat oversized an overly large pot is detrimental to your plant. If too large a pot is used the roots will not colonize the pot quickly, this in turn leads to an overly damp condition. The soil does not go through a proper wet/dry cycle in a reasonable length of time.

also, should I stick something under the bonsai to spread out the roots.

I think the horse may have already left the barn on this one. The roots on your tree are already established in such a way that I think you will have a hard time restyling them. Not a criticism, I have a Zelkova that I purchased with a similar problem that I may have to layer off someday.

I'm thinking of just mixing my existing schultz cactus/succulent soil with some inorganic stuff I find at the store.

The cactus soil is probably far superior to any commercial potting soil that you will find. Do you have more of it or are you referring to what is already in your pot?

is there anything I should know about the care of the plant after I repot it? ive read not to fertilize, don't water too much, and leave it out of direct sun... anything else I need to know?

Excessive watering is always inappropriate, but don't make the mistake of witholding water now, misting or a humidity tray certainly would not hurt. As far as light goes unless you have an exceptionally well placed window I don't think I would be too concerned about too much light. Light levels in our homes are generally pretty low. There is disagreement as to wether or not you should withold fertilizer. Some feel that this is actually counterproductive to a quick recovery, maybe split the difference and give a half strength dose, your call.

Norm

[ynot]

ive read that wonderful sticky topic by ynot and gnome. very helpful.

Petra, I am glad to hear that sticky is usefull to you.

now, my question is fairly simple. what kind of pot should I use? should I use a bigger/training pot? if so, how big are we talking about here?

A plastic pot [They are cheap too ] from any garden center will be fine with your tree [Provided you don't mind looking at it And it has sufficient drainage holes {Which is easy to fix }]
Just 'how big' is kind of hard to say. It's difficult to judge the size of your ficus by the pictures [Nothing for scale to compare it to.].
Going HUGE is counterproductive in that the soil at the bottom tends to still be wet while the top is dry. This will eventually lead to root issues. [Rot, Pathogens, etc..]
[url=https://www.evergreengardenworks.com/overpot.htm]More details here.[/url]

Please post your current pot dimensions [I am betting pretty small.] Or a picture of it with a lighter, or a can of coke, or a fire hydrant...Which ever is appropriate .

should I stick something under the bonsai to spread out the roots. so maybe a semi-deep pot but nice and wide?

Your choice, Either of these helps you to promote a shallow root sytem. People stuff all sorts of [non-toxic] stuff under their trees: Chunks of old broken pots, Those tiny 2" diameter clay saucers that cost $0.43 [Inverted of course.], Bottoms from old plastic bottles.. etc. The pot need not be all that deep as it will still have lots of volume due to it's width.

Remember though that your soil is about to become far less water retentive and will train you to its new requirements, Your role remains exactly the same though. Check daily- water when needed.

One thing to keep in mind is that should you find a pot that is nice and wide but far too tall, It only takes a few minutes and something sharp to make it shorter.

Now when I say 'a wide pot' it is all relative, If your tree [Which I suspect is tiny.] has a 1" wide root system you need not put it in a 10" wide pot. 5" would be plenty of room for growth. [A more substantial tree requires a larger training pot.]

I'm planning on heading out to walmart/target after work to go look for a nice pot and possibly some soil to mix together. I'm thinking of just mixing my existing schultz cactus/succulent soil
[url]https://www.schultz.com/ProductCategories/Soilsamendments/CactusSoil/[/url]
with some inorganic stuff I find at the store. I will use a window screen and filter out the smaller stuff from the mixture. (I'm kind of broke atm, school, work, need car, loans, etc... and don't want to spend a lot at the moment)

Completely understand about the money.
You may find alot of that cactus soil will go through the screen which will render large portions of it unuseble[I may be exactly wrong about this but as I recall the particle size is fairly small.]

I highly recommend the Schultz Aqua Soil, It is my main inorganic ingredient. I like it for several reasons, Primarily its size,
[I have trees in only this.]
[You will lose perhaps 10% maybe 15% of the material in the screening process, It's about 7$ for 10 Lb. bag]
The fact that it is a different color when wet or dry could be a factor of interest to you. [Dead simple to see if the soil is still wet deeper in the pot.]

[url=https://img135.imageshack.us/my.php?image=7462rockplantingposssibillitiespleasehelpserrissaror7hd0.jpg][img]https://img135.imageshack.us/img135/6280/7462rockplantingposssibillitiespleasehelpserrissaror7hd0.th.jpg[/img][/url]
You can actually tell the dryer surface bits [Lighter colored areas.] in this picture, Dark orange-ish=wet, In the upper corners and in the blurry foreground there are some 'mostly tan/sort of pale pink' looking bits, That is its color when dry.

is there anything I should know about the care of the plant after I repot it? ive read not to fertilize, don't water too much, and leave it out of direct sun... anything else I need to know?

lol...'Don't water too much' is a constant
No ferts for a month or so, Not because I feel it is beneficial in any way to withhold food.
[I don't, And I don't even dillute my ferts but that's another story.] I say 'No ferts' because your tree will be fine without them for a month and it is one less thing for you to be concerned about.
After it is settled in you will need to start a regular program of balanced ferts to provide what your tree needs.
We can cover ferts in more detail later if you have questions.

As far as lighting goes, I give my ficus all the light possible. [In NC that is a massive amount when they are outside in the summer I assure you.]

Living indoors, On the other hand [Despite what we see with our eyes] is an exceptionally dark enviroment as far as plants are concerned.
[Just think about the massive leaf size of most houseplants, They survive because they have extremely large surfaces with which to utilize all the light available.]


I would not be concerned with too much light at this point.

I see Gnome has posted addressed many of the same issues as I have been typing this.
Good point about the timing Gnome.

The roots on your tree are already established in such a way that I think you will have a hard time restyling them.

I quite agree wrt the above ground roots. [Learning the principles of promoting a good nebari will be good practice though.]
I was going to address a low airlayer possibility in the future for this at some point.
I also agree that the cacti mix is a FAR better choice than any 'potting soil' [Though I prefer the aqua.]

Hope this helps,
ynot

[Gnome]

Ynot,

[I don't, And I don't even dillute my ferts but that's another story.]

Just to clarify, I don't dillute my fertilizer either. I recently repotted some Mum cuttings and fertilized them with full strength 20-20-20. I also am continuing my same schedule into the fall season, but that's another-nother story.

Petra seemed reluctant to fertilize upon repotting, hence my suggestion regarding half strength. Probably not a huge issue either way though.

Norm

[ynot]

Ynot,

[I don't, And I don't even dillute my ferts but that's another story.]

Just to clarify, I don't dillute my fertilizer either. I recently repotted some Mum cuttings and fertilized them with full strength 20-20-20. I also am continuing my same schedule into the fall season, but that's another-nother story.

Petra seemed reluctant to fertilize upon repotting, hence my suggestion regarding half strength. Probably not a huge issue either way though.

Norm

Gnome,
I fully understand what your saying [But that's anoth...nevermind ]

Petra, Gnome and I essentially are saying that we wouldn't let a repot stop us from ferts.
However, Skipping the fert is completely acceptable and will not be detrimental to your tree in any way.
My personal suggestion is to skip it. I say this because at this point there is no reason to needlessly complicate things.
Whichever way you feel more at ease will be fine.
As has been noted, It is your call .
ynot

[Petra26]

so... I went to wal-mart and apparently their summer season is over so they didn't have any pots on sale, only halloween decorations. but I was able to buy a bag of perlite that I mixed into my schultz cactus/succulent soil. about 50:50. I got home and searched through some old pots, and found a green plastic pot and mixed the soil/perlite and shifted out majority of the small particles. anyways, I was able to repot my bonsai into a new pot, a somewhat deep and not so wide pot...

here are some pictures for your viewing and criticizing pleasure...

[url=https://img456.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf0501rx1.jpg][img]https://img456.imageshack.us/img456/724/dscf0501rx1.th.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://img521.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf0502mi4.jpg][img]https://img521.imageshack.us/img521/4937/dscf0502mi4.th.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://img241.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf0503zp3.jpg][img]https://img241.imageshack.us/img241/1326/dscf0503zp3.th.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://img75.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf0504ys2.jpg][img]https://img75.imageshack.us/img75/2122/dscf0504ys2.th.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://img73.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf0505dh6.jpg][img]https://img73.imageshack.us/img73/9019/dscf0505dh6.th.jpg[/img][/url]

I think the horse may have already left the barn on this one. The roots on your tree are already established in such a way that I think you will have a hard time restyling them. Not a criticism, I have a Zelkova that I purchased with a similar problem that I may have to layer off someday.

you were right on the money. apparently after pulling it out of the existing pot, I realized why now the plant was in such a tall cylinder shaped pot. the reason is that there is a long big fat piece of root that extended down. as if originally the entire tree was just a branch and they stuck 4-5" into the dirt and let it grow. and the bunch of roots from the pictures were just probably aerial roots that fused together and the rest of the roots under the soil were just feeder roots branching out from the lower part of the stick/branch. anyways, I was hesitant to trim that lower fat food storing root b/c my tree is still weak imho. so I just repotted it as deep as I could at the bottom of the new pot after I had cleaned out all of the old soil. then filled up the pot with dirt up to the rim to not expose anymore of the lower roots. I'm thinking in a year after the tree has recovered and grown more feeder roots, I will repot again and prune the fat root and try potting abd spread out the feeder roots in a shallower wider pot.

Petra, Gnome and I essentially are saying that we wouldn't let a repot stop us from ferts. However, Skipping the fert is completely acceptable and will not be detrimental to your tree in any way. My personal suggestion is to skip it. I say this because at this point there is no reason to needlessly complicate things. Whichever way you feel more at ease will be fine. As has been noted, It is your call

actually I have never fertilized anything in my life. I was just stating that as a generalization of what I have read in the past. but I will probably start fertlizing in the future. I am taking baby steps, doing 1 thing a time

thanx for all the help guys, I hope my bonsai will survive and thrive as for now, I will just leave it be and just check up on watering. I will be looking to repot another ficus bonsai have that is in better condition than this one when I have time. will be looking into getting some kind of lighting and fertilizing for it in the future. these are my to do's

[Gnome]

Petra,

Good job, glad to hear that you have embraced the whole bonsai soil thing, sifting is also an important step forward. Caution with the root pruning is OK, you can always take more drastic measures later.

This illustrates the importance of establishing the beginning of a proper nebari early in the game. By the way, thanks for acknowledging my part in the sticky you mentioned.

Ynot noted that the frequency of your watering will likely change with the new soil. Lighting and fertilization need not be complicated. A $15.00 fluorescent shop light and a cheap timer will be fine. Any balanced, (20-20-20 for example) water soluble fertilizer mixed according to directions will suffice as well. Good luck.

Norm

[ynot]

Petra,
I am happy to see this guy in a new home . The old green plastic pot is perfect [Nice price too . ]

One question though, Is there anything over the drainage holes in the pot to keep the soil from washing out whilst watering?
It doesn't look like there's anything there, Had to ask.

As Gnome mentioned being cautious was a good call wrt rootpruning for now.
Just give him a while to regain strength.

You may have to take down that gimungous root in portions depending on how your new feeder roots are placed. [When the time comes.]

For lighting: You could even use those 7$[ok, Might be 9$] 'curly bulb' fluorescent lights {I do, and I posted a link about these in your other thread as I recall.} that fit into a normal fixture such as a desk lamp. Add/rig a reflector and your golden .

Please do NOT buy an incandescent 'grow light bulb'.
Puts out toooooo much heat! Use Fluorescent lights, Far more energy efficient also.
Good luck!
ynot

[JoeLewko]

just a little off topic, but do you have any plans for this in the future? ive always liked root-over-rock style, and I don't know what the tree looks like under the soil, but if its suitable for root-over-rock, I think it's somethign to consider.

[Petra26]

yes, I am being careful with the watering. to let the soil dry out slightly more before watering.

I have some compact fluorescent bulbs already since I bought a 3 pack, one I'm currently using for my room. just need to find a fixture and timer and proper arrangements with adequate sun. probably will wait about 1 month before I start to fertilize. probably dilute to half strength for awhile when I fertlizer and get the plant accustomized to it, considering I have never fertilized it before...

One question though, Is there anything over the drainage holes in the pot to keep the soil from washing out whilst watering?
It doesn't look like there's anything there, Had to ask.

yeah, there isn't any kind of mesh at the bottom to prevent the soil from washing out, but I did place a layer of small rocks to cover the holes.

just a little off topic, but do you have any plans for this in the future? ive always liked root-over-rock style, and I don't know what the tree looks like under the soil, but if its suitable for root-over-rock, I think it's somethign to consider.

this will be highly unlikely for the time being. as mentioned above, there is 1 central big fat root that goes all the way to the bottom of the pot connecting up to the exposed roots and trunk. not until I am able to prune away the thick root and have actually some feeder root do I think I will be able to even consider accomplishing anything of that order.

here's a diagram I drew of what is kind of going on.

[url=https://img132.imageshack.us/my.php?image=10506repot06yq6.jpg][img]https://img132.imageshack.us/img132/6140/10506repot06yq6.th.jpg[/img][/url]

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

I am open to suggestion for other styling types and designs possible for this bonsai. but I know most of it will not happen any time soon, but it doesn't hurt to ask and dicuss while I wait for my tree to grow

[ynot]

EDIT: Excellent 'Behind the scenes' virt there Petra! That is an excellent visual aid to help everyone who is playing along at home.

Here is a quick virtual wrt one possible future for this ficus:

I see it as a powerfull looking broom style shohin, [Mame really].

[url=https://img247.imageshack.us/my.php?image=petraficusvirt1am8.jpg][img]https://img247.imageshack.us/img247/1419/petraficusvirt1am8.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Now obviously I have not included all the foiliage so that the branch structure was not obscured.

You will notice I have situated the tree a bit deeper in the pot to hide that extra root that was crossing from underneath the middle of the tree.
I feel this stabilizes the trees base visually and suits it a bit better.

To achieve this will require that the tree be planted a bit deeper in the pot than currently to allow for a shallow system of feeder roots to develope [Along with some nebari] that will facilitate eventually planting in a shallow pot.

Petra, You will have no fear of rootpruning by the time you have this guy in a bonsai pot .

[JoeLewko]

this will be highly unlikely for the time being. as mentioned above, there is 1 central big fat root that goes all the way to the bottom of the pot connecting up to the exposed roots and trunk. not until I am able to prune away the thick root and have actually some feeder root do I think I will be able to even consider accomplishing anything of that order.

here's a diagram I drew of what is kind of going on.

I'm sorry if I missed that...I understand what you're syaing, my ficus is basically the same, with the giant roots extending a good length, making it impossible, (or close to impossible) for root over rock.