Can I grow an elm tree on my back porch. In Northern MN.

[fallingleaf]

So I have never had a bonsai tree in my whole life. I have been researching and I really want to get a bonsai tree for my back porch. I live in a town home and I would like to have an outside one for decoration.

I live in Northern MN and the winters are brutal to say the least. I'm almost up into Canada. That's how far north I'm talking here.

My question is how long could I let this tree sit on my back porch. If I take it inside during the winter months will it die? I know it needs to go through a period of dormancy but I guess I'm not exactly sure how I go about allowing it to do that. Be honest with me. Is it worth it? Will it just die? As soon as Oct and November rolls around its going to snow. Do I let it experience snow? Will it freeze to death?

I'm a back porch veggie garden type of girl. I have never done anything other than veggies and flowers.

[Gnome]

fallingleaf,

Hello and welcome. Kudos to you for asking first, often we only hear from new growers after their tree is in distress.

Are you by any chance considering a Chinese Elm? You did not specify. This species can indeed spend some time indoors if you are committed to giving it the proper care. I have never tried to keep one inside year-round but I have been successful in what I call the 'split-season' scenario. This would be when you keep the tree outside for the largest part of the year and only bring it inside during the coldest months.

Let me explain; Chinese Elms are subtropical and, while they are cold hardy, have only a moderate need for dormancy. You can, for instance, keep one outside where it will do fine in your climate and then bring it indoors after an abbreviated dormancy. In the spring the tree is returned to its location outdoors where it will stay until the following winter. I have successfully accomplished this.

While inside you should plan on providing supplemental lighting and a humidity tray. We can revisit this thread later as next fall approaches but the short answer is yes, you can do this if you choose the correct species and are committed to providing it the proper care.

It is even conceivable that you may be able to keep it on your balcony year-round but this would require a substantial effort to protect the roots. A situation where the air circulates on five sides of a balcony can be harsh indeed.

Norm

[fallingleaf]

thank you so much for responding! I am excited to get a tree. Do you think a Chinese Elm would be best? What type of tree would withstand my ignorance?

The lighting for the tree, is it alright to use a full spectrum light bulb in a desk lamp? How many hours a day?

Does it take regular plant food? I have been using this Organic Choice that miracle grow makes for my other plants.

[Gnome]

fallingleaf,

thank you so much for responding! I am excited to get a tree. Do you think a Chinese Elm would be best? What type of tree would withstand my ignorance?

Chinese Elms are pretty easy to grow. The biggest problem with them seems to be the horribly dense, water retentive soil they are usually offered in. Mass produced trees are generally potted in inferior soil to save cost and shipping weight. Watering the first year seems to give beginners the most problems but if you do your research before you buy it you should be OK. Re-potting it into a better medium will be in order but beginners are at a disadvantage since they have never done it before and the tree is most often already leafed out. Plan on re-potting it at the start of next spring when it is still dormant.

As Charles has recently pointed out, Chinese Elms are not really indoor trees although you can manage them as such, at least for awhile. That's why I don't suggest keeping one indoors on an extended basis. If you wish to have something green inside over the winter consider Ficus. They can also spend the summer outside but will need to come inside for a large portion of the year in your area. One northern grower gave up moving them inside/outside and now grows inside exclusively, but he employs sophisticated, high intensity lighting. My ficus slow considerably when they are indoors for the winter.

The lighting for the tree, is it alright to use a full spectrum light bulb in a desk lamp? How many hours a day?

You intend to keep this outside for the biggest part of the season, correct? I suggest you wait a little while and purchase after the weather has warmed so there will be no need for lighting in the short term. In fact, if you intend to follow the scenario I outlined above, you won't need any supplemental lighting until around New Years 2012. If the tree is small enough you could even continue its dormancy in the refrigerator after your balcony becomes too cold thus avoiding the lighting issue entirely.

Does it take regular plant food? I have been using this Organic Choice that miracle grow makes for my other plants.

Although there are certainly specialty products available they are not necessary. A Chinese Elm bonsai is still just a tree after all so what you have should be fine.

Norm

P.S.

I should also mention that there are trees that could spend the entire winter on the balcony but since it is so exposed you will need to employ some ingenuity to keep the roots from becoming too cold. The Chinese Elm you are considering could also spend it's entire life on the balcony but it would require some serious protection. I suppose it all depends on what you wish. Indoors exclusively, outdoors exclusively or a split season. There are trees that are suited to any of those situations provided you are willing to accommodate them.

[fallingleaf]

I plan on keeping it outside all the time. I was worried I had to make it stay alive during the winter inside. I will probably just go ahead and try it and keep it in the garage or fridge like you said for the winter. Although no light at all will it not surely die? This is semi confusing. I'm just going to give it a try and learn from experience. thank you!

[Gnome]

fallingleaf,

Perhaps I jumped to a conclusion when you wrote that you lived in a town home. Since you have access to a garage this takes a lot of the pressure off. I also keep my Chinese Elms in a mostly dark garage over the winter and have doing it this way for years. Dormant, deciduous trees do not require light so don't worry about it dying for that reason. Also if you are on the ground floor (you wrote porch, I wrote balcony) that would also make things a little more hospitable.

Norm

[fallingleaf]

Thanks for all your help! I am going to order a tree. When it gets here since its in darkness will it think its hibernating? Maybe I should let it hibernate? I hope they water it before they ship it to me.

[fallingleaf]

also, yea, I'm on bottom floor. I have a back porch that has a little protection from the elements but sometimes it can hit 50 below with the wind chill. I don't think I could protect it enuf. I worry about my garage being too cold as well.

[Gnome]

fallingleaf,

Thanks for all your help! I am going to order a tree. When it gets here since its in darkness will it think its hibernating? Maybe I should let it hibernate? I hope they water it before they ship it to me.

No, a few days in darkness will not cause it to enter dormancy, bonsai are shipped like this all the time. I do have some minor concern about the difference in temperature between the source and your location. If you were considering a Ficus I would suggest that you definitely wait. Chinese Elms are not sensitive in that regard but it would not hurt to wait a while. Besides, if you get it too early you will need to keep it inside and provide supplemental lighting. If you wait until it warms up it can go right outside.

also, yea, I'm on bottom floor. I have a back porch that has a little protection from the elements but sometimes it can hit 50 below with the wind chill. I don't think I could protect it enuf. I worry about my garage being too cold as well.

The tree will spend most of the fall on the porch only requiring shelter after temperatures stay below freezing. I always allow mine to stay outside to experience the shortening days and first frosts. This is necessary to ensure that they fully enter dormancy.

Does your porch have a roof? I wonder because if so that might be a problem WRT sunlight.

Norm

[fallingleaf]

yea it does have a roof. If I place the tree on the corner it will be out of the clear of the roof. It will probably get drenched when it rains. About half the day it won't get direct sunlight because of the huge building. Iv had great success growing my veggies back there. Maybe its not enuf light for a tree though.

[Gnome]

fallingleaf,

If you can grow vegetables there you should be OK. Let us know what you end up getting.

Norm

[tomc]

My question is how long could I let this tree sit on my back porch. If I take it inside during the winter months will it die? I know it needs to go through a period of dormancy but I guess I'm not exactly sure how I go about allowing it to do that. Be honest with me. Is it worth it? Will it just die? As soon as Oct and November rolls around its going to snow. Do I let it experience snow? Will it freeze to death?

I'm a back porch veggie garden type of girl. I have never done anything other than veggies and flowers.

You might look for some local larch (tamarack) larix laricina. Allready stumped examples should be in many ditches near you.

In the winter once its gone dormant nestle it in a garden bed and mulch with leaves.

Another local possibility might be upland blueberry (the short kind), Feral examples should be nigh to everywhere, and free.

Both live out of doors in the winter where you do. Your town or county road crew mows them as weeds, and no body will miss a few. Get permission from local abutters if it will make you feel better.

In your climate I might look to plastic or mica pots. You will have to unpot trees in ceramic pots before bedding them down in the fall.

Just a thought.