Hey guys, How are you all doing?
I just purchased a new juniper from my local home depot, (I know, not a great place to shop, but my nearest nursery is 35 miles away, and lets face it, as a college student, who can afford the gas?) it's a tam or tammy juniper, not an ideal bonsai species, but as I understand it, it's the most common juniper sold in SoCal. it was EXTREMELY well filled out and took me about 2 hours over 2 days to get it into the condition it is in now. it started out in a 13 quart container, and is now in a 6x8x2 1/2 inch bonsai pot. I've already removed quite a few branches, including a damaged one that I didn't see on initial inspection. I really like the trunk shape and the way the major branches are placed, and though you can't really see it, there are some fine potential nebari coming off the bottom.
[img]https://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e273/ewzach/Photoon2010-03-31at18452.jpg[/img] [img]https://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e273/ewzach/Photoon2010-03-31at18453.jpg[/img] [img]https://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e273/ewzach/Photoon2010-03-31at1845.jpg[/img]I like this angle as the front of the tree.[img]https://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e273/ewzach/Photoon2010-03-31at1846.jpg[/img] I really think that this tree would do well with a windswept style based on this angle, but that's a very difficult style to create, and I'm still a beginner. [img]https://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e273/ewzach/Photoon2010-03-31at18472.jpg[/img][img]https://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e273/ewzach/Photoon2010-03-31at18473.jpg[/img]a closer view of some of the branches that I've hacked off and the wounds that I've left.
[img]https://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e273/ewzach/Photoon2010-03-31at1847.jpg[/img] Don't worry, I only brought it inside to photograph it, though in retrospect, the lighting was better outside. It normally sits on top of my porch fence.
As always, I do have a couple of questions:
1. Did I move too quickly from a huge 13 quart container to a small bonsai pot?
2. Does anyone have any ideas on how to train this tree? I can see potential for a windswept style, but as I understand it, that style is EXTREMELY difficult to pull off
3. You can see some of the stumps where I removed branches, and there is a branch that has no foliage on it at all, how do I heal those so that they don't destroy the image of the tree, and/ or will they heal on their own?
4. Any ideas on which other branches to remove?
And lastly, Norm, you've been so helpful in the past, you might be interested to know that unfortunately the juniper I was working with last year has passed away, but I'm hopeful that I'll do better this year.
Good luck with all your projects, and best wishes
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Victrinia Ridgeway
- Senior Member
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- Location: Bremerton, WA
The most important thing you can do for the tree at this point is put it in a shady area.... do NOT give it full sun. Don't do anything else to it until next year really... just let it grow.
How small was the rootball that you got into the pot? (ie, is the pot pretty full already with roots, or is there a lot of room in the pot for the roots to expand?
Were there any visible white root tips?
I am trying to get a sense of what you did to the tree... and frankly it sounds like it was a radical reduction. Trees in serious development rarely have any business being in a bonsai pot. And trees should also be taken down to that enviornment over time. There is a strong chance the tree may not make it... but keeping it out of the sun will help, so give it filtered light at best. Also, don't feed it for some time, until you've got a lot of active growth going on, and even then I would feed a lower nitrogen fert which will encourage strong root growth over foliage.
Patience is your friend in this... and it is often difficult in the pursuit of something that "look the part" as another participant put it the other day. So just let it be and keep us posted.
Oh, and don't worry to much about the wounds... they are small and will be fine over time.
My personal rule of thumb with species I am not familiar with is that unless the tree is in ill health and doing nothing would be worse... I never mess with a tree's roots until I've owned the tree for a full year cycle so I can become familiar with it's growth habits and needs.
Kindest regards,
Victrinia
How small was the rootball that you got into the pot? (ie, is the pot pretty full already with roots, or is there a lot of room in the pot for the roots to expand?
Were there any visible white root tips?
I am trying to get a sense of what you did to the tree... and frankly it sounds like it was a radical reduction. Trees in serious development rarely have any business being in a bonsai pot. And trees should also be taken down to that enviornment over time. There is a strong chance the tree may not make it... but keeping it out of the sun will help, so give it filtered light at best. Also, don't feed it for some time, until you've got a lot of active growth going on, and even then I would feed a lower nitrogen fert which will encourage strong root growth over foliage.
Patience is your friend in this... and it is often difficult in the pursuit of something that "look the part" as another participant put it the other day. So just let it be and keep us posted.
Oh, and don't worry to much about the wounds... they are small and will be fine over time.
My personal rule of thumb with species I am not familiar with is that unless the tree is in ill health and doing nothing would be worse... I never mess with a tree's roots until I've owned the tree for a full year cycle so I can become familiar with it's growth habits and needs.
Kindest regards,
Victrinia
The pot was pretty well packed with roots, and yes, there were plenty of healthy white tips. I was afraid that I moved it too quickly, which it looks, from what you're saying, that I did 
I wasn't planning on doing anything much this year, and just letting it grow out, except for maybe reigning in some adventurous shoots that might form. I guess that I just need to let it rest and pray to the juniper gods that it makes it, huh? 
it'll be unfortunate if the tree dies, cuz I already really like it. oh well, live and learn, right? 
I wasn't planning on doing anything much this year, and just letting it grow out, except for maybe reigning in some adventurous shoots that might form. I guess that I just need to let it rest and pray to the juniper gods that it makes it, huh? it'll be unfortunate if the tree dies, cuz I already really like it. oh well, live and learn, right? -
Victrinia Ridgeway
- Senior Member
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- Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:46 am
- Location: Bremerton, WA
How long ago did you do this to the tree? If it was very recent, then you should consider gently slip potting it into something larger. Water and air will flow better around the roots if they are not crammed into a pot. So you'll be giving it a better chance for survival.
If you are not precisely sure what I mean by slip potting, please ask...
V
If you are not precisely sure what I mean by slip potting, please ask...
V
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Victrinia Ridgeway
- Senior Member
- Posts: 264
- Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:46 am
- Location: Bremerton, WA
The important thing whenever you are slip potting a tree is to distrub it as little as possible. And it assumes you are putting the tree into a larger pot. So first you need a larger pot. If you don't have one handy, cutting the can it was in to a shallower height will often work.
Then treat it much the same as a regular repot... putting down a layer of soil, and clipping the ties you have out as best you can. Then turn the whole thing over in your hand over the new pot so you can pop it out of the pot and immediately settle it into the larger one. Since this is recent the likelihood of soil spilling into the new pot is high, just try and keep it together as much as possible. You can even water it first so that the soil will have more of a tendancy to cling to the roots. then just fill in all around as normal using a chopstick to settle the soil. Just be gentle about it all... and it should not notice you moved it a bit.
Hope this helps....
Victrinia
Then treat it much the same as a regular repot... putting down a layer of soil, and clipping the ties you have out as best you can. Then turn the whole thing over in your hand over the new pot so you can pop it out of the pot and immediately settle it into the larger one. Since this is recent the likelihood of soil spilling into the new pot is high, just try and keep it together as much as possible. You can even water it first so that the soil will have more of a tendancy to cling to the roots. then just fill in all around as normal using a chopstick to settle the soil. Just be gentle about it all... and it should not notice you moved it a bit.
Hope this helps....
Victrinia
Yes that is very helpful. I've now "slipped" it into a bigger pot, and actually I took your advice and just cut the original down about 5 inches. It's also in a nice shady spot, and I'm hoping and praying he makes it out alive, if he does, he'll be my first larger scale tree. my boxwood is about 5 inches tall, and I have a jasmine that I'm training to be a cascade right now Thank you SOOO much for your help, and eventually I'll learn not to try and kill my plants before they even have a chance to grow
Thank you SOOO much for your help, and eventually I'll learn not to try and kill my plants before they even have a chance to grow Hey guys,
just a little update, it's been about 2 1/2 weeks since I slip potted my juniper back into a larger container, and it seems to be doing well. I know that junipers are notorious for taking months to show signs that I've been caring for a dead tree, but some of the branches have new growth on them, some coming out of the ends of the foliage, and some coming straight off the branches, so I'm still hopeful. 2 questions:
I literally haven't watered it since I put it in the big container because the soil is still moist, is that a sign of poor root health?
and is it time to move it to a sunnier area?
Thanks in advance
just a little update, it's been about 2 1/2 weeks since I slip potted my juniper back into a larger container, and it seems to be doing well. I know that junipers are notorious for taking months to show signs that I've been caring for a dead tree, but some of the branches have new growth on them, some coming out of the ends of the foliage, and some coming straight off the branches, so I'm still hopeful. 2 questions:
I literally haven't watered it since I put it in the big container because the soil is still moist, is that a sign of poor root health?
and is it time to move it to a sunnier area?
Thanks in advance
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Victrinia Ridgeway
- Senior Member
- Posts: 264
- Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:46 am
- Location: Bremerton, WA
So my question back is... is it surface moist or is it chop stick in the pot moist?
And... when you do water it, how readily is it flowing out the pot? If your soil is truly moist after 2 1/2 weeks... then you really have waaaayyyy too much organix in the mix. HOWEVER... don't fuss over it anymore, just let it be. The fact that you have active growth and back budding is a sign that it isn't dead as a general rule... so it can't be that pissed. Plus junipers can be a little more tolerant of wet feet than some things, so it'll likely be fine.
As to sun, if it's actively growing you can let it get more sun... but I wouldn't stick it in full sun all day. What kinds of options do you have for sun exposure?
I'm glad it's doing well... In a couple more weeks I would go ahead and start feeding it. Personally I would use biogold, but lacking that a low dose of Miracle grow is always good for them... or ozmocote etc.
Kindest regards,
Victrinia
And... when you do water it, how readily is it flowing out the pot? If your soil is truly moist after 2 1/2 weeks... then you really have waaaayyyy too much organix in the mix. HOWEVER... don't fuss over it anymore, just let it be. The fact that you have active growth and back budding is a sign that it isn't dead as a general rule... so it can't be that pissed. Plus junipers can be a little more tolerant of wet feet than some things, so it'll likely be fine.
As to sun, if it's actively growing you can let it get more sun... but I wouldn't stick it in full sun all day. What kinds of options do you have for sun exposure?
I'm glad it's doing well... In a couple more weeks I would go ahead and start feeding it. Personally I would use biogold, but lacking that a low dose of Miracle grow is always good for them... or ozmocote etc.
Kindest regards,
Victrinia
Victrinia,
you are definitely right about the soil, I DO have WAY too much "soil" and not enough grit, but I was working with what I had. The top 1/4 to 1/2 inch is fairly dry, but other than that, it's moist, not wet though. honestly, it drains pretty well, only holding about 35 to 50 percent of the water I put in it, but like I said, it's still moist.
As far as light is concerned, the only viable spot I have is on top of my deck fence (I live in an apartment) which is shaded in the morning, has dappled light through an overhead oak most of the day, and has about a half hour of pure sun from about 2:30 to 3 most days, then is shaded for the rest of the day. it does pretty well for my other plants, I have a jasmine, chinese boxwood, a pine, a jade tree, and a couple of cacti. is that about right for a juniper? I know it's supposed to get morning sun (as with most other bonsai, but like I said, my other plants seem to be flourishing), but that really is my only option, unless I give it to my grandfather, who is a fairly amazing bonsai enthusiast in his own right. (but he's not especially tech savvy, which is why I haven't gotten him hooked on this forum, YET. haha.
I use GOganic fertilizer, which is labeled at 5-4-3, and it seems to work pretty well ( my boxwood LOVES the stuff) is that a little skimpy for a juniper?
THanks soooooo much, Victrinia, you really are a godsend.
you are definitely right about the soil, I DO have WAY too much "soil" and not enough grit, but I was working with what I had. The top 1/4 to 1/2 inch is fairly dry, but other than that, it's moist, not wet though. honestly, it drains pretty well, only holding about 35 to 50 percent of the water I put in it, but like I said, it's still moist.
As far as light is concerned, the only viable spot I have is on top of my deck fence (I live in an apartment) which is shaded in the morning, has dappled light through an overhead oak most of the day, and has about a half hour of pure sun from about 2:30 to 3 most days, then is shaded for the rest of the day. it does pretty well for my other plants, I have a jasmine, chinese boxwood, a pine, a jade tree, and a couple of cacti. is that about right for a juniper? I know it's supposed to get morning sun (as with most other bonsai, but like I said, my other plants seem to be flourishing), but that really is my only option, unless I give it to my grandfather, who is a fairly amazing bonsai enthusiast in his own right. (but he's not especially tech savvy, which is why I haven't gotten him hooked on this forum, YET. haha.
I use GOganic fertilizer, which is labeled at 5-4-3, and it seems to work pretty well ( my boxwood LOVES the stuff) is that a little skimpy for a juniper?
THanks soooooo much, Victrinia, you really are a godsend.
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Gnome
- Super Green Thumb
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- Location: Western PA USDA Zone 6A
Victrinia,
For instance, from Harry Harrington's site:
I only have one Juniper and although I water it liberally during the summer I have kept in a 100% inorganic mix to ensure that the medium did not retain a lot of water. I did re-pot this year changing my mix somewhat; I have now included some Pine Bark while increasing the particle size.
Can you elaborate a little? Keep in mind that many of the Junipers we see here come potted in the typical peat based soil.
Norm
I'm a little surprised by this. Most of the sources I'm familiar with express pretty much the opposite opinion.Plus junipers can be a little more tolerant of wet feet than some things, so it'll likely be fine.
For instance, from Harry Harrington's site:
https://www.bonsai4me.com/SpeciesGuide/Juniperus.htmlEnsure Junipers are not over watered as they suffer root rot easily,
I only have one Juniper and although I water it liberally during the summer I have kept in a 100% inorganic mix to ensure that the medium did not retain a lot of water. I did re-pot this year changing my mix somewhat; I have now included some Pine Bark while increasing the particle size.
Can you elaborate a little? Keep in mind that many of the Junipers we see here come potted in the typical peat based soil.
Norm