New Chinese Elm owner + New photo's

[Dianne Fincham]

Hi,
I am new to this site, and to Bonsai. I have read lots of books, and searched the internet.
I would like to post an article about my tree that i received as a birthday presant just over a week ago.
Having read your initial info/guidelines about the correct information needed to enable anyone to help me. I will wait, take a few photos, and try to answer all of the suggestions on your list. Looking forward to receiving some help.
Best wishes Dianne

[Gnome]

Dianne,

Welcome to the site. We look forward to seeing your new acquisition.
If you need help with the photos look here:

http://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/v ... php?t=3724

Norm

[Dianne Fincham]

Hi,
This is my first attempt at putting photo's on, so i hope this works? The Bonsai in question is a Kelkova which as i said before i had as a presant. The first photo is the plant as a whole, including the pot it came in. Its not in situe, i just placed it there to give a darker background.

The second photo is a close up of the leaves,and the upper branches from slightly underneath, this photo is the best one for actual colour match. The leaves are serrated.


The third photo is of the base of the trunk

And the fourth photo shows the upper branches and leaves

The pot itself, has a smaller plastic pot inside (not so deep). I was unsure about watering, i have been checking to see if it feels dry and then watering it. However, today, i thought i would just try to lift the inner pot out to see how deep it was etc, and the whole plant came out of the pot very easily, all the soil around it is very dry. I quickly put it back as i was afraid i would do damage.

History of this plant:
It was a present, it was bought from a local shop/store. The lable that came with it says its a Kelkova, and it give a website of www.takeawaytrends.com I had a look at there site for extra information. They briefly describe it as Latin name Ficus retusa Microcarpas Common name Bonsai (I thought, that tells me a lot)! It was referred to as a house plant. It says to cut back leaves and branches between March & August. And to keep out of direct sunlight.
It says it was brought up in the Far East and was cared for by Asian experts.
The site did give details about watering etc, but as i was not over impressed by most of what i read, i would prefer to gain further information from else where.

On websites that i have looked at, this plant has been described as an outdoor plant?

I keep it on my kitchen window sill where it does seem to be quite happy. It has lots of natural light there, but no direct sun light. It has lost a few leaves, and there are a few leaves on there that are obviously going to drop off, but they were like that when i got it. I am concerned that it may not be in the right sort of pot?
I have not touched this plant at all, and will not do so until i have better advice on what to do. I assume that either way i should wait until at least April.

I live in Cornwall UK, so the weather here is quite mild compared to most places. I have plenty of room both indoor and outside should the need be.

Well, I'm going to leave it there for a moment, and just check to see if these photos actually go up ok.
Best wishes to all
Dianne

[Gnome]

Dianne,

First disregard pretty much any information you get from that website, they seem to be retailers without much bonsai specific knowledge. There is zero chance that this is a Ficus.

To my knowledge there is no such tree as 'Kelkova' either, they almost certainly meant 'Zelkova' as in Zelkova serrata. Furthermore I doubt that this actually is a Zelkova. Instead, I believe it to be a Chinese Elm or Ulmus parvifolia, I actually grow both so I am fairly sure of my ID.

We see this, perhaps deliberate, misidentification frequently, very often from the UK. It is my understanding that this is done deliberately to circumvent restrictions on the importation of Elms. By mislabeling them as Zelkova they can be sneaked past ill-informed customs inspectors.

If you search the site for either of the two names (Zelkova or Chinese Elm) you will find may threads on this very subject.

If after you read through the previous threads you still have questions we will do our best to answer them. For now read this for tips on watering. I'm off to get dinner so I'll stop for now.

Norm

[Dianne Fincham]

I am really sorry, for some reason i put Kelkova, it actually says Zelkova. Don't know why i keep wanting to spell it with a K?
I will check out the Elm you mentioned, and the link about watering. Many thanks for getting back to me so quickly.
I do love the little plant, so i really don't mind what it turns out to be.
I did think it funny though, that i had looked up Zelkova on line, and all the plants i saw didn't exactly look like mine? As i don't know much about Bonsai at the moment, i assumed they perhaps just varied. So thank you for that. That's very interesting. I shall go and do some research!
Best wishes
Dianne

[Gnome]

Dianne,

No problem about the typo. Chinese Elms are one of the better trees for a beginner so you will be fine with it I think. Here is a side by side of Zelkova and Chinese Elm.

The Zelkova is on the left. A US quarter Dollar is about 24MM

Chinese Elms also have some variation in leaf shape, here are some examples.



Make sure that you remove the inner pot when watering, later you can return it to the outer container. Never allow water to pool around the roots.

Norm

[Dianne Fincham]

Hi,
Many thanks for the pics, they were a great help. I had only said to my husband yesterday that the photo's i had seen of Zelkova seemed to have bigger leaves than mine.
By the way, i have been having a good look around this site, and i came across your calalogue of photo's of the Zelkova that you had cut, with the running up date on how it and its new growth is doing, looks fantastic
I'm going to have a good read today about Chinese Elm's, and see if i can work out what i have to do with this plant of mine
Best wishes
Dianne

[Gnome]

Dianne,

Glad that I could help. For now concentrate on proper watering, the chopstick method really helps until you get a feel for it. Lighting is important as well, most homes are rather dim and if you don't have a good southern exposure some supplemental lighting certainly would not hurt. This often takes the form of fluorescent bulbs/tubes placed close to the tree, avoid incandescents.

Come spring you will need to make a decision. Are you willing and/or able to locate this tree outside? It really will do better for you there.

Norm

[Dianne Fincham]

Hi,
Yes, i have plenty of room outside. We have a small decked back garden, that gets a good bit of sunshine from Spring throught to Autumn, and its sheltered from the cold and wind quite well.
For now, it is on my kitchen window sill, it has lots of good natural light there, and i also have fluorescent lighting in the kitchen. One long tube approx 4 or 5 ft long down the centre. Its only a smallish kitchen, so its not far from the light, and i also have 4 fluorenscent tube under unit lights around the kitchen that are roughly at the same level as the plant.
I have given it a good watering. I took the smaller plant pot out from the large one, stood it in a few inches of water for 15 minutes or so, then let it drain, and put it back.
The soil around the roots was very very dry, and now feels much better. Hope thats ok? I will use the chop stick method for future use though.
Many thanks for your help, it really is much apreciated!
Best wishes
Dianne

[Dianne Fincham]

Hi,
I am alittle worried about my Chinese Elm. I had intended sometime around early spring to either re-pot and or trim the roots? Its still only 6-8 deg C here in Cornwall UK at the moment. (Although, my tree is indoors, but i intended to put it outside in the spring).
The tree seems very happy where it is at the moment, but my problem is, i have just looked at it and its covered in new leaves and shoots, so what and when should i do something to it? Is it now too late?
My reasons for wanting to do something about the roots is because, the first time i watered it, i wondered how deep the inside pot was, so i went to lift it out, and the plant came out of the inside pot completely, with no mess, it didn't look too pot bound, but, it was very very dry. There were quite a lot of roots, and i think the tree looks as though it is in too small a pot?
The tree is 10" high, the trunk is 1.5" in diameter at the base, and the pot is 4 3/4" (12cm) in diameter, is this too small? From what i have read, it suggests that, when i eventually put it into a Bonsai pot, a pot for a tree of this size should be approx 7.5" wide x 5" deep and 1.5" high.
All help greatfully received!
Dianne

[KasWear]

I have the same tree, there from Lidl ....

When you repot you will have to check for root rot ...

Water, preferably rain water, poured into the top, then allowed to drain, then repeat process .. then water again when chopsticks have nearly dried out completly ...

Being a tropical tree they like misting and temperatures not to drop into single C figures ...

You need to research potting meduims to decide how you want to play it ...

And at least you have not made the mistake that i had of not enough light .. and they don't like cold drafts either ...

Wait til peeps have replyed further as I'm a noob 2 ...

Ta

Kas

[Dianne Fincham]

Hi,
Thank you for your reply. Now that it is being watered properly it does seem to be doing very well! I am really pleased with it. I just don't want to do anything to it until i am really sure of what I'm doing. The weather here in England is always a bit 'hit n miss', but down here in Cornwall we are quite lucky as we have it quite mild. My problem now is, when and what should i do next?
Best wishes
Dianne

[Gnome]

Dianne,

I am alittle worried about my Chinese Elm...The tree seems very happy where it is at the moment, but my problem is, i have just looked at it and its covered in new leaves and shoots,

Sheesh, some people are hard to please. Just kidding, all too often we see trees that are hanging on by a thread, if yours is actively growing count your blessings. No need to rush into anything, remember it's a tree and operates on a different time scale than you might wish. Think in terms of weeks and months for even minor changes to become apparent and years for substantial changes to show.

The two best times to re-pot a Chinese Elm is the spring or early winter. Let me explain, most deciduous trees (which Chinese Elms can be) are re-potted just prior to leafing out in the spring. This is when I re-pot my Chinese Elms.

Since this species is a sub-tropical (some might say closer to temperate) it can be handled differently if you choose to do so. An alternative strategy is to grow it outside all summer and fall, allowing the tree to enter dormancy. After allowing a brief dormancy the tree can be brought indoors for an early spring. This would be the other appropriate time to re-pot, again just prior to it leafing out. I put the word 'can' in Italics in order to alert you that this may not be the best course of action. If your heart is set on having it inside you can with proper lighting and other appropriate care. But, the tree will be just as happy to spend the entire winter dormant.

After having written all that I will say that I have re-potted this species while in leaf with good results. You should weigh the potential benefits against the risks involved. Exactly how root-bound is the tree? How bad is the soil, and how small is the actual pot?

My reasons for wanting to do something about the roots is because, the first time i watered it, i wondered how deep the inside pot was, so i went to lift it out, and the plant came out of the inside pot completely, with no mess, it didn't look too pot bound, but, it was very very dry.

A tree that can be lifted out of it's pot with an intact rootball is not necessarily a problem. The fact that it was dry falls on you. You can manage a tree in a less than ideal soil, it comes down to proper watering. The old adage about watering multiple times becomes more important the denser the medium is.

A modern, free draining medium can be watered much easier than a finely textured, denser one. If your tree is in a relatively dense medium, which it very likely is, then watering twice or even three times in quick succession will help to ensure that all of the soil is thoroughly saturated each time you water. This should always be your goal, no half measures when it comes to watering, it's all or nothing.

There were quite a lot of roots, and i think the tree looks as though it is in too small a pot?

A good intact rootball is OK, a badly root bound one starts to become a problem but it is a gradual thing. A 1 1/2" trunk in a 4 3/4" pot does seem rather small but we don't know how long it was in that pot. Your tree was likely field grown and only recently potted in order to be sold. Sometimes a smaller pot is better in that it allows the medium to dry quicker. The ideal pot size/medium type combination is one that dries, and therefore requires watering, daily. Not saying you should water every day just that a large mass of soil that stays wet for extended periods is not appropriate. Often large trees that are collected are potted in the smallest pot that will accommodate the rootball.

I'm not trying to discourage you from re-potting just to make you aware so that you can make an informed decision. If you are leaning toward re-potting you will need to locate a pot that is appropriately sized and appeals to you. You will also need to acquire (either purchase or mix your own which is a whole other kettle of fish) and determine when you are going to do it. Until you have the appropriate supplies on hand, the point is moot. Have you read the thread about what constitutes a good bonsai medium?
http://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/v ... php?t=3422
http://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/v ... php?t=3423

Norm

[Dianne Fincham]

Hi, Thank you for your reply. When the tree was first given to me it was very dry as i mentioned. I have been watering it well, and it seems quite happy. When watering, the water seems to run straight through and out the bottom!
I have just took a couple of photo's of the roots, they are not very good, but hopefully you will be able to see them ok. Mostly, they are quite fine roots.




Also, someone has told me that i should cut back all shoots to 2 leaves, and to do this regularly? That sort of goes against most of what i've read? I'm not in a particular hurry to do anything with it, I'm mainly worried incase the pot is too small. This tree seems quite happy, and i want to keep it that way.
I was hoping to put it outside soon, probably in another month or so, as its quite mild here. The temperature at the moment has now gone up to 8 deg c, and we don't have much frost now.
What do you think?
Best wishes
Dianne

[Gnome]

Dianne,

Hi, Thank you for your reply.

You're welcome, glad to help.

I have been watering it well, and it seems quite happy. When watering, the water seems to run straight through and out the bottom!

That is as it should be, just make sure that the soil at the center of the pot is being properly saturated as well. Sometimes water can take a path around the rootball, that's what the 'watering three times' is all about, making sure that all the soil is properly hydrated.

I have just took a couple of photo's of the roots, they are not very good, but hopefully you will be able to see them ok. Mostly, they are quite fine roots.

The root system does not give me impression that re-potting is urgent. I would be inclined to change the soil but it can be managed the way it is with proper watering.

Also, someone has told me that i should cut back all shoots to 2 leaves, and to do this regularly? That sort of goes against most of what i've read?

Often there is an ebb and flow to bonsai, they do not always look their best. At times they must be allowed to put on some growth in order to assure their health. Of course this will vary from species to species and the state of development your tree is in.

For your tree I think I would wait until you are ready to move it outside. The tender foliage that grew indoors may not fare well in real sun. By pruning it just prior to moving it outside you will be removing a lot of that soft growth. Then when the new shoots form they will be acclimated to the sun and you should see better color and shorter internodes.

Norm