OK - the new photos (angles) help a lot. Three dimensions now. Ahh, hmm! I still think I would take out the top of the trunk as mentioned earlier - but no rush. It's your call.
Here's a couple suggestions for you bud. For cut paste - I usually get it from vendors at bonsai shows, symposiums. And I like the kind in tubes rather than the harder types in jars. It's a paste, kinda like a sticky toothpaste colored brownish or green, and you dab a little on to seal the wound. For the web you can try www.dallasbonsai.com and 'search' for cut paste. OR, in a pinch just mix a little mud (yes mud) with Elmer's wood glue - like a 50/50 mix (not too wet) and apply it with your fingertip. Of course it should be applied at the time of cutting for best results. NOTE - Nick Lenz reports that Preparation H works very well.
For your tie-down wires - to protect the roots/nebari - go to the local hardware store and get some small plastic tubing, slip it over your wires at the points where it touches the tree and it won't cut in and scar the tree. You can also use this stuff when wiring or tying down branches.
I hope that helps.
TomM
Hi Scott,
Well, I guess I'll add my two cents in here as well. The tree is coming along nicely and it appears that you've got the start of some nice Nebari going on there.
From the last picture I'd say that something is a bit out of proportion. It appears that the two lowest branches....the one one the left and the one on the right....are a smaller diameter that the three up top, at least from the angle that picture is taken from.
Since you want the lower branches to be the thicker and a tapering down as the eye moves up the tree, it appears to my eye that something should change.
Let's label the branches for ID purposes (please excuse my 'artwork'):
[img]https://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c145/djlen/ScottsBougiea.jpg[/img]
Branches A & B appear smaller in diameter than at least C & D. Without knowing how they radiate from the trunk it's tough to know what to do, but all things considered if this view point is going to be the 'front' of the tree as long as the two lower branches remain as they are (thinner) the tree will look out of proportion, to my eye. Only you, being there and seeing the tree from all angles, can make the call as to what should/could be done(or not done) to correct this. There are options.
It will be interesting to see what you choose to do.
Following up on Tom's suggestion for protecting your wired tree parts, I use aquarium air line (the soft green stuff) found in most pet shops and it does a nice job of keeping the wires from cutting into the tree.
Well, I guess I'll add my two cents in here as well. The tree is coming along nicely and it appears that you've got the start of some nice Nebari going on there.
From the last picture I'd say that something is a bit out of proportion. It appears that the two lowest branches....the one one the left and the one on the right....are a smaller diameter that the three up top, at least from the angle that picture is taken from.
Since you want the lower branches to be the thicker and a tapering down as the eye moves up the tree, it appears to my eye that something should change.
Let's label the branches for ID purposes (please excuse my 'artwork'):
[img]https://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c145/djlen/ScottsBougiea.jpg[/img]
Branches A & B appear smaller in diameter than at least C & D. Without knowing how they radiate from the trunk it's tough to know what to do, but all things considered if this view point is going to be the 'front' of the tree as long as the two lower branches remain as they are (thinner) the tree will look out of proportion, to my eye. Only you, being there and seeing the tree from all angles, can make the call as to what should/could be done(or not done) to correct this. There are options.
It will be interesting to see what you choose to do.
Following up on Tom's suggestion for protecting your wired tree parts, I use aquarium air line (the soft green stuff) found in most pet shops and it does a nice job of keeping the wires from cutting into the tree.
Thanks Tom and Len.
I cannot disagree with anything either one of you have stated. I hesitate though to keep cutting back for a couple of reasons.
1) The more I trim the lower branches the more out of scale it is.
2) I had initially wanted a full canopy with this but it seems as if I will need to readjust my vision. This is taking time to accept.
3) If I remove the center branch that forms the apex as Tom suggested it moves the center of the tree to an unknown as yet for me. Even though this is still preliminary work it seems it would throw the balnce off completely.
4) I want the branches to be from the thickest on the lowest limbs and progressively smaller and it ascends. However, this little tree refuses to give me everything I want. (me think it female)
5) Maybe the most important reason - I have traumatized this little guy quite a bit and I think it needs to be stabilized for a season and review the major changes again next year.
Any comments on these thoughts are as always welcome.
Scott
I cannot disagree with anything either one of you have stated. I hesitate though to keep cutting back for a couple of reasons.
1) The more I trim the lower branches the more out of scale it is.
2) I had initially wanted a full canopy with this but it seems as if I will need to readjust my vision. This is taking time to accept.
3) If I remove the center branch that forms the apex as Tom suggested it moves the center of the tree to an unknown as yet for me. Even though this is still preliminary work it seems it would throw the balnce off completely.
4) I want the branches to be from the thickest on the lowest limbs and progressively smaller and it ascends. However, this little tree refuses to give me everything I want. (me think it female)
5) Maybe the most important reason - I have traumatized this little guy quite a bit and I think it needs to be stabilized for a season and review the major changes again next year.
Any comments on these thoughts are as always welcome.
Scott
Scott,
Your vision can and will be fulfilled if that's what you want for this tree. They are extremely forgiving and quick to branch back and right now you are working on the framework for it.
Patience is the key for any Bonsai project and if at this time you feel it's time to wait and give it some time, that's the way it should be.
Your vision can and will be fulfilled if that's what you want for this tree. They are extremely forgiving and quick to branch back and right now you are working on the framework for it.
Patience is the key for any Bonsai project and if at this time you feel it's time to wait and give it some time, that's the way it should be.
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josh1812@live.com
- Senior Member
- Posts: 144
- Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:12 pm
- Location: Florida
This in my opinion will be the best bet, bougies are very tolerant of being cut back hard, I personally have seen an artist cutting all the way back to the bare stump, it will barely be a few weeks until it buds, it will be for the best. DO NOT BE AFRAID TO CUT BACK HARD
[img]https://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz267/Nero1997/ScottsBougiea.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz267/Nero1997/ScottsBougiea.jpg[/img]
Yeah - I am not so much digging the last suggestion although I see the intent.
I spent WAY too much time last night in Paint playing with possible scenarios. I like your idea FLBonsai and I am waiting for Tom and Len to weigh back in and give clarity to their suggestions.
Until then I am going to take care of the Nebari with a better/more forgiving material to hold the tree.
I spent WAY too much time last night in Paint playing with possible scenarios. I like your idea FLBonsai and I am waiting for Tom and Len to weigh back in and give clarity to their suggestions.
Until then I am going to take care of the Nebari with a better/more forgiving material to hold the tree.
Do yourself a favor and pickup some of that airline tubing I mentioned earlier to avoid the marking up of your Nebari.SHS wrote: Until then I am going to take care of the Nebari with a better/more forgiving material to hold the tree.
[img]https://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c145/djlen/ScottsBougiea.jpg[/img]
I like FlBonsai's rendition a lot keeping 3 of the 5 that you've got to work with. When I labeled the 'limbs' I was thinking keep either A, B & D with the two branch starts at the top of D working up high. This would be my first choice. The other option would be keeping C, D & E, but I don't like that nearly as much as the first option.
Ofcourse, I'm looking at the tree from New Jersey and can't put it on a turntable and study it from all sides or see the way they radiate out by looking at it from the top. I'm looking at a one dimensional view of the tree. If you can achieve balance by using the A, B & D option that would be the way I'd go with it.
This would be your framework with many more back-buds on the way, to work with.
Another suggestion. Invest in a Japanese made concave branch cutter to remove the larger limbs. The difference when using one is amazing. Totally flush.....no lumps or bumps. I just bought one....my first actual "Bonsai tool" and I've been chopping at trees since 1966.....and I'm so happy I did. I think it's probably the only Bonsai tool I'll ever have to buy, but worth it.
Also, to develop the Nebari you can use ceramic tile right under the base of the trunk to force the roots to grow out instead of down. I use 4" tiles because I have a ton of them left over from my Kitchen work last year, but you can use 3" or even 2" ones for that purpose.
You can do this next Spring as your Bougie will need a re-pot at that time.
There are a few other pics on the first page showing views from the top.
I am taking off the rest of today through Monday so I should have time to rewire this and add the tubing. Do you think it would be a good idea to go ahead and put tile in at this time?
I am leaning very hard toward the option that FLBonsai outlined, I think it give good future options as well.
Thanks all for the help!!
I am taking off the rest of today through Monday so I should have time to rewire this and add the tubing. Do you think it would be a good idea to go ahead and put tile in at this time?
I am leaning very hard toward the option that FLBonsai outlined, I think it give good future options as well.
Thanks all for the help!!
Are you going to pull the plant out of the pot again? If so you could put a tile under it. Is it still in that sort of amber color pot that shows in the first picture? If so, that's a pretty shallow pot. I don't know.....your call.
Now, having looked back at the top view, it appears that the three we talked about are pretty evenly spaced. I think that that's the way I'd go with it.
Now, having looked back at the top view, it appears that the three we talked about are pretty evenly spaced. I think that that's the way I'd go with it.
It is in the pot from the most recent pics. It is an oval shape and kind of shallow. I think I will try to avoid removing it from the pot but I will have to see if I can reuse the wires. I picked up some 1/4" tubing used for irrigation that is rather thick walled and soft to pad the wiring on the nebari.
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TomM
- Greener Thumb
- Posts: 749
- Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 7:28 am
- Location: Cedarville (SE of Utica) NY, USA
Hi Scott - I'm back. Yeah I think I'm partly responsible for getting this ball rolling. Hope you're not cussing me out!!??! I'm with you guys on the plan, except for this which I don't think has been mentioned. IF branch "E" is kept I would consider cutting it back to the fork in the "Y" to help with taper or ramification. Do you see where I mean?
Glad you will be padding the tie-down wires over your roots/nebari. Have you found any cut paste solution?
I agree with Len's suggestion for concave cutters - a wise investment, though there are some on this board who would not agree. If used properly they will leave little or no scarring-once the tree has time to heal.
TomM
Glad you will be padding the tie-down wires over your roots/nebari. Have you found any cut paste solution?
I agree with Len's suggestion for concave cutters - a wise investment, though there are some on this board who would not agree. If used properly they will leave little or no scarring-once the tree has time to heal.
TomM
Nah, no problems here, if I don't agree with folks I just don't do it....just ask my 2 ex wives.
I understand and agree about branch "E".
I looked again at Home Depot for cut paste but no luck, I am looking for home remedies for now. One guy at the Bonsai club said he NEVER uses cut paste and it works for him. I guess everyone does things a little differently with various experiences.
I am just starting to piece together my tools and I agree to the need for concave cutters.
I understand and agree about branch "E".
I looked again at Home Depot for cut paste but no luck, I am looking for home remedies for now. One guy at the Bonsai club said he NEVER uses cut paste and it works for him. I guess everyone does things a little differently with various experiences.
I am just starting to piece together my tools and I agree to the need for concave cutters.
Scott,
Certain plants are more susceptible to open 'wounds' and for those it's a good idea to use a cut paste or similar. Actually, I think it's a good idea to use it as often as possible. To get into sort of a habit. An example is that some plants draw and are susceptible to borers, especially in the fall and they can do some damage. I think it's a good idea and incidentally I've used
Preparation H with success.
The more I think about it in lieu of the fact that you have it in a pretty shallow pot and you may be doing still more pruning up top, I'd leave the plant in it's pot and let it grow out for another year before going the tile route.
I don't know why anyone would not be interested in a good pair of branch cutters (Japanese made......[url=https://www.dallasbonsai.com/store/concave_cutters.html]Dallas Bonsai[/url] has nice ones) and as I said previously they are the only actual "Bonsai Tools" I feel are needed. Most other tasks can be performed by everyday clippers, shears, etc., that are less expensive than going out to buy practically the same things labeled for Bonsai specifically.
Certain plants are more susceptible to open 'wounds' and for those it's a good idea to use a cut paste or similar. Actually, I think it's a good idea to use it as often as possible. To get into sort of a habit. An example is that some plants draw and are susceptible to borers, especially in the fall and they can do some damage. I think it's a good idea and incidentally I've used
Preparation H with success.
The more I think about it in lieu of the fact that you have it in a pretty shallow pot and you may be doing still more pruning up top, I'd leave the plant in it's pot and let it grow out for another year before going the tile route.
I don't know why anyone would not be interested in a good pair of branch cutters (Japanese made......[url=https://www.dallasbonsai.com/store/concave_cutters.html]Dallas Bonsai[/url] has nice ones) and as I said previously they are the only actual "Bonsai Tools" I feel are needed. Most other tasks can be performed by everyday clippers, shears, etc., that are less expensive than going out to buy practically the same things labeled for Bonsai specifically.